getting ready for this one, going to need some assistance.

[ghtpdm5]

well, decided over the winter to try and get the old white to at least motor turning. going to be a big project for me, first off i'm going to have to have a friend strip all the old fabric and horse hair out of the interior (mouse allergy would kill me if i tried on my own). after that, i'm thinking that getting the pressure washer out back and hitting every nook and cranny before dragging it in the shed.

this is where i begin to get lost a bit. i'm thinking of dropping the pans on the motor and trans, pull the plugs on the diff, and then fill the cylinders with some atf and wd40.

beyond that, the main issues are electrical. one huge one is that its a 6 volt system, and god know if i could get a new generator for it. i'd rather run it at 12 volts since i think i have an alternator and batteries for it laying around. the other electrical system thing is that all the wires have degraded to well past gone (may see them in the pics) so i'm going to have to make a new loom up and go from there.

some other things are the carb, bed, a couple lights, and a couple dings. the carb is likely gunked to hell, the bed needs new wood (i have a ton of 2x6 pine, just time there) the lights are common ones on the bed i may have laying around, and the dings are going to be time again.

well, to give you guys an idea of what i'm dealing with, here are some pictures.

[rc2008]

well I think you have the right ideas, I would start with a good cleaning, get some oil in the cylinders, try to turn the motor over by hand to make sure its not seized up, and if it does turn over then worry about the trans, diff, wiring, ect...

[4wd4ws]

Now, thats a cool project.

1947 ?

Subscribed.

[ghtpdm5]

well, i couldn't kick it over with the hand start last summer, but dumping some lube in the cylinders if the first to do on the list. if it doesn't move after a couple weeks of soaking, then its time for the top to come off and for me to start hating myself. i know about nothing about these older motors, and this one is a bit of a bear to find anything out on due to the fact that there aren't many of them out there. if i can learn something, it went from a pile of metal in the grove to a nice lesson.

really if the engine is locked up, its not the end of the world, i have a friend that has an older (91 i think) 2wd dodge i may be able to pillage the cummins out of. and all else fails, it'll sit in the grove till something on my 95 breaks hard, then pillage the motor out of that.

this isn't a quick build at all, its more just to get this one looking more respectable. i'm not sure i want to paint it at all, if i did, thinking a hunter green then silver or white for the wheel rims.

EDIT: yes, 47 4wd4ws, been sitting around since the last time the plates were renewed. in one of my albums here i dug up the sale brochure on it.

[4wd4ws]

I'm drooling, love the old trucks.

Keep it as original as you possibly can.

[ghtpdm5]

i'll try, just a matter of how it cooperates with me. i'm a bit worried about that weld job, i've welded cast before and its kinda an art to do the heating and cooling without creating more cracks. my neighbor, who is a huge minneapolis moline collector and also knows these older rigs said that the wheel rims are still a common size thankfully, and that i may be able to rob a new carb and generator out of a tractor to fit.

like i said, i know about nothing about older motors (gas motors and i generally don't get along, i grew up on diesels) so this will at least be a learning experience hopefully. the goal by the end of summer is to make sure the motor is freed up. anything beyond that is gravy really. i'll probably work on the bed as i get mad at the motor, just as a distraction. if i can get the motor to turning, then cleaning the carb, then its going to be checking the generator, then wiring. the wiring is actually the part i'm not scared of. pretty simple compared to modern stuff.

the main reason of doing the cleaning early (right around the time i flood the cylinders) is just to get the mouse out, dying really is a factor there. if i could skip pressure washing everything, i would. going to be a good half day in a full tyvek suit, respirator, and splash guard. it may prove useful in finding any cracks in the block that would negate even trying on the motor.

[semnmrc]

Looks like quite a project! But it looks like a very solid foundation!

4 wheel drive and 4 wheel steer? That's double awesome!!

I think you're going down the right path on trying to get it running and keeping the stock running gear, but a cummins would be supercool also!

If I didn't have so much to do, and this damn weather would cooperate, I'd have to make a road trip. Someday!

[ghtpdm5]

that was a reference to 4wd4ws's user name lol, its a standard 2wd truck.

and i may have to load up panels and steal your tig or mig for a day, the rust doesn't appear to go through really anywhere, but i may have to rebuild that battery box and do a little bit of patching on the hood latches to make them close better.

with this weather, i'm not going to start on it for a while yet, just needed a handle on what the hell i'm doing as far as firsts and worry about it later items.

[semnmrc]

Dang, I was getting all giddy and stuff.


Let me know if ya wanna fuse some stuff together!

[ghtpdm5]

probably going to take you up on that, the old marquette stick is great at a lot of things, sheet metal isn't one of them. there is a bit of dinging on the bottom of the stainless grill section that is going to smack me in the face when i try to straighten it . also, would give me a chance to learn mig. grew up on stick and never had to use mig.

the battery box is a little screwy to begin with. i'm going to have to pick up some sheet steel, lowest i have laying around is 1/4" plate.

looking at this, it would appear that if the motor is a bit locked up, i could take the top right off for some inspection or there are a couple access plates on the sides. this is well beyond anything i've taken apart before in terms of age (not counting the grader, but that is a tow behind) so things are engineered in a fashion i'm not familiar with. probably going to load the garden sprayer with some bulk penetrating oil to see if that loosens up the works. i'd rather work in oil than bust a bolt off trying to get this apart.

the side plate is located right by the exhaust manifold is the one i'm most interested in, looks to be a lower end inspection plate (keep in mind i'm looking at the same pictures, its a snowy, windy bitch outside now) and with that i may be able to see some innards. if i could blast the bottom end of the pistons while they were soaking, that seems like an advantage here. for more clarity, the oil fill bolts right to one of the plates i'm thinking of. it may be one of those "open and see" things.

[BigSki]

I don't think that the engine should be very difficult to tear apart, it's an inline flat head. Even though there isn't much available for this specific engine, there should be plenty of information available for flat heads in general. The side covers on the block are for the tappet adjustments.

I think this would be a super cool project just to get it up and running well enough for it to move under it's own power.

[semnmrc]

I agree with BigSki, I think the covers open up the tappet mechanisms, much like the old inline chevy motors?

Let me know when you're thinking about pulling the seats/interior out. If I have time I'll come over and do the dirty.

[ghtpdm5]

that answers some questions there, it wouldn't really have benefited the process at all to open them right away like i thought.

looking at some flathead pictures last night, i can see what's going on more, the top plate gives more or less free inspection access to the valves and cylinders by the looks of it, and one site i can across said the valve seats are an area prone to cracks and wear (was on an old ford v8 ) so it may be prudent to rip the bolts on that, check it all out.

i've got a friend here that works in a hog barn and wouldn't mind gutting the vinyl and horse hair, i may need to rip the seat frames though for repair welding though. that's the biggest moisture trap really, time will tell if they got eaten.

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by ghtpdm5

that answers some questions there, it wouldn't really have benefited the process at all to open them right away like i thought.

looking at some flathead pictures last night, i can see what's going on more, the top plate gives more or less free inspection access to the valves and cylinders by the looks of it, and one site i can across said the valve seats are an area prone to cracks and wear (was on an old ford v8 ) so it may be prudent to rip the bolts on that, check it all out.

i've got a friend here that works in a hog barn and wouldn't mind gutting the vinyl and horse hair, i may need to rip the seat frames though for repair welding though. that's the biggest moisture trap really, time will tell if they got eaten.

If you mean the cylinder head, this is correct. The side plate only gives access to the tappets (lifters), valve springs and the cam lobes. The "flat head" design puts the intake and exhaust valves in the block, the cylinder head is the combustion chamber for the engine. It's about as basic of a design as it gets. Think of it as a lawn mower engine. Be sure to unbolt the head in the proper sequence so that the head doesn't warp or crack.

I'd start the process like the way you mentioned, pull the spark plugs,fill the cylinders with PB Blaster, put the plugs back in and wait until all of the oil disappears. I've witnessed this procedure in person plenty of times at my local automotive machine shop. They have freed up plenty of submerged frozen boat engines using this procedure.

[ghtpdm5]

ok, so that is the cylinder head. this is making more sense now. it looks more like a valve cover than a head, so i dubbed it top plate out of confusion. i did see some torquing diagrams for a couple inline 6's and they looked pretty much the same (think it was a chrysler and chevy) so following those backwards should help with the head warping i'm assuming? first step there is to blast the crap (literally, i think its mouse crap coating it) off the head, hope for no cracks visible and that the plugs come out well.

good to know on the penetrant procedure, plan was to start it, then walk away for a couple weeks on that. hopefully that will be more than enough time to let it work. i will try the crank start without the plugs (i'm a bit of an idiot and forgot about the whole compression thing and the mouse shit tar) to see if it moves at all first, though i doubt it will be that easy.

i truly do appreciate the help of more learned minds than mine, i had no clue on how to even approach this other than to flood the cylinders with oil. from your help, i'm now going with the head removal after that. already, lessons learned!

the tappet adjustments on the side, to start out with, those shouldn't be a main concern then? that's more of a once its actually cranking concern if those are the valve adjustment points? in one article on a ford v8, that was a prime point, but they were building it for power, not just to make the thing run.

[relic68]

Ive used a 50/50 brake fluid/atf combo before on stuck motors. Also Marvel mystery oil works wonders on things that have siezed. Looks like a fun project Pete!

[BigSki]

I'd worry about getting the motor to spin freely before anything else. Those piston rings could be frozen to the cylinder walls, there could be a layer of rust on the cylinder walls that will destroy what's left of rings when they get dragged over the rust, any of the valves could be rusted shut in their seats. You just never know what is waiting for you. You might get lucky and everything will free itself up easily and the damn thing will start right up after you get it rewired.

If you're up to the work, pull the head first so you can get a good look at the cylinders. If they don't look too nasty, you can just fill them with the PB Blaster and just lay the head back on the block to temporarily cover it up.

The torquing sequence generally starts in one corner, then proceeds in a circular, clockwise pattern. Un-torquing would be the opposite, start in the middle of the head, then work in a circular pattern while working towards an outside corner. Do it in 2 passes, the first pass just get the bolts to move 1/4 turn, then do it again while completely loosening the bolts. This will help even out the stresses on the head. You just might find that the head gasket is long gone and the bolts just about loose as they are!

[ghtpdm5]

yeah, its pretty much the same torque pattern as changing out concaves on a deere sts, not hard to remember. if i can hit them with the ratchet and they're loose, that would be awesome! of course then it may be finding a new gasket or trying to make one (a first there if i do) if the one in there is degraded. i'm actually liking the pulling the head idea, would give optimal access and allow for a full crack check before i go further.

on the old chrylser motor, one fault seemed to be that it would crack near the intake valve (was common enough to mention at least in the articles i read) so if one is cracked, its a no go. i'm sure that there are faults on this motor if i can dig further into it. i'm using this time to ask the questions that need to be asked, hopefully it will be reasonably warm soon to get out there and get on it.

these are what i have been going off of:





cheers to Hank's Truck Pictures Web Site for the details there, also where i found the rest of the brochure.

[BigSki]

It sounds like you have the right attitude towards the project, I think you will be fine. The Willys L 4 and L 6 ( 'L' stands for flat head, 'F' has intake valves in the head, the exhaust valves are in the block) were the first engines that I ever took apart, so when I saw your thread I just had to look. Those old "flatties" are cool.