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Old 03-31-2014, 02:39 AM   #1
I wanna be Dave
 
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Default 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Just got this today. My brother gave me a killer deal on it. 1985 EFI SR5 4Runner. Specs as best I know:

Rebuilt 22RE w/ aftermarket Cam
5:29 Gears
Welded Front
Unknown lift in front (add-a-leaf w/ shackles?)
Looks to be stock leafs in rear with 4" blocks and longer shackles
Front shock hoops. (My bro ripped one off and had them reinforced to the stock mounts)
Homemade rear bumper
IFS Steering box (leaking?)
Hi-Steer
Stabilizer
30" LED bar
Homemade front D-Shaft
37" Cut Boggers (these tires kill it in mud and sand, which is most all that is in our area)







I'm pretty much a noob at building full size rigs, especially Yotas. I was hoping some of y'all could try to help spot any potential issues with it. I also have a ton of questions.

It needs new leafs for sure. My current plan is go with a new pair of chevy 63" leafs in the rear, new spring packs in the front, different wheels/tires that are more road friendly and can crawl, and likely going to lockers front and rear.

Some close up shots any help with parts identification is greatly appreciated:

Front end.



Anyone think the front d-shaft will survive crawling? The u joints look tiny.



The shock towers. I hate the angle of the shocks. Maybe I should switch to F250 towers?







These front shackles are longer than stock right?



The stabilizer feels like it does nothing. I need to flip the U bolts. Any suggestions on a replacement stabilizer and a u bolt flip kit?



What the heck mounted here?



Any idea on the steering components? Is this an IFS steering box?



Aftermarket rear D-Shaft?



Stock springs w/ blocks and longer shackles?



What do I do with the shocks if I flip the rear u bolts?



Rear Bumper.




GENERAL QUESTIONS:

How much tire can the stock axles handle? Stick with 37ís with 5.29 gears?

Best I can tell, OME, Stock, and Deaver are the best options for front springs. However I have also read of people running rear springs in the front, what is the advantage of this?

How can I push the front axle forward?

Can I stretch the rear WB when I go to the 63" springs?

Approx how much lift is gained with the swap to 63" springs?

What can I do to make the steering tighter? I know the tires have a lot to do with it, but this thing is sketchy on the road. There is slop in the steering. I would like to make it more street able if at all possible.

I have read about toyota E lockers. They really make them for these old axles? How much do they cost?

Any other input on swapping the springs? Keep the current shackles?

I would either like to try and make it street friendly with 35-37" tires. If that just is not feasible, then I want to make it a full on trail machine. Looking for input in both directions.

Last edited by 4xFord; 03-31-2014 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:00 PM   #2
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Reno
Posts: 274
Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xFord View Post
Just got this today. My brother gave me a killer deal on it. 1985 EFI SR5 4Runner. Specs as best I know:

Rebuilt 22RE w/ aftermarket Cam
5:29 Gears
Welded Front
Unknown lift in front (add-a-leaf w/ shackles?)
Looks to be stock leafs in rear with 4" blocks and longer shackles
Front shock hoops. (My bro ripped one off and had them reinforced to the stock mounts)
Homemade rear bumper
IFS Steering box (leaking?)
Hi-Steer
Stabilizer
30" LED bar
Homemade front D-Shaft
37" Cut Boggers (these tires kill it in mud and sand, which is most all that is in our area)







I'm pretty much a noob at building full size rigs, especially Yotas. I was hoping some of y'all could try to help spot any potential issues with it. I also have a ton of questions.

It needs new leafs for sure. My current plan is go with a new pair of chevy 63" leafs in the rear, new spring packs in the front, different wheels/tires that are more road friendly and can crawl, and likely going to lockers front and rear.

Some close up shots any help with parts identification is greatly appreciated:

Front end.



Anyone think the front d-shaft will survive crawling? The u joints look tiny.
YES IF YOU DRIVE NICELY


The shock towers. I hate the angle of the shocks. Maybe I should switch to F250 towers? I would go with the Ford towers...







These front shackles are longer than stock right? Those are aftermarket



The stabilizer feels like it does nothing. I need to flip the U bolts. Any suggestions on a replacement stabilizer and a u bolt flip kit? I think I used Allpro. worked great!



What the heck mounted here? Torque Tube from nest to the engine, cut the mount off and call it good.



Any idea on the steering components? Is this an IFS steering box? Yes it is, make sure that the frame is reinforced on both sides or it will crack the frame. I would also extend the reinforcement if it were me.



Aftermarket rear D-Shaft? nope



Stock springs w/ blocks and longer shackles?



What do I do with the shocks if I flip the rear u bolts? Weld on tabs on the axle and move the shocks either inward toward the center of the truck or in stock location.



Rear Bumper.




GENERAL QUESTIONS:

How much tire can the stock axles handle? Stick with 37ís with 5.29 gears?
I would not go any more than 37s but others have with good results and aftermarket axle shaft in the front.
Best I can tell, OME, Stock, and Deaver are the best options for front springs. However I have also read of people running rear springs in the front, what is the advantage of this?

How can I push the front axle forward? different springs, the center pin might not be in the middle and can push it out or drill the spring perches and the U bolt plate and move it that way.

Can I stretch the rear WB when I go to the 63" springs? Not sure, I went with Ford bronco II springs in the rear but they are really soft.
Approx how much lift is gained with the swap to 63" springs?,

What can I do to make the steering tighter? I know the tires have a lot to do with it, but this thing is sketchy on the road. There is slop in the steering. I would like to make it more street able if at all possible.
Again make sure the frame is reinforced and check the front cross member and make sure there are no cracks
I have read about toyota E lockers. They really make them for these old axles? How much do they cost? Yes the early models will fit(make sure it is an 8" axle) but there is axle housing modifications that need to be done, and the cost depends on where you are and who you know.

Any other input on swapping the springs? Keep the current shackles?

I would either like to try and make it street friendly with 35-37" tires. If that just is not feasible, then I want to make it a full on trail machine. Looking for input in both directions.
I loved driving mine on the street, and I was running 37" MTRs with bead locks, unbalanced, with 5.29 gears and my speedo was right on.

Good luck with the build and have fun!

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Old 03-31-2014, 02:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Thanks for the input TREE.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xFord View Post
Thanks for the input TREE.
No worries man!!!

I'm a TOYOTA guy through and through!

if you have any other question feel free to ask.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Between the blocks, long ass shackles, goofy front shock mounts/angles, and missing bumpstops it is no real surprise that it isn't very street friendly. Odds are pretty good that your spring eye, and frame side shackle-tube, bushings are shot, which will contribute to a looseness feeling at speed.

If you actually wheel at all, the stock front spring hangers will bend at the first impact into a rock/stump. They are surprisingly flimsy. I've bent them on otherwise stock trucks.

That is an IFS box, and it doesn't appear to have near enough bracing/frame plating to go along with it. The stock steering setup push/pulled lengthwise on the frame, and now that it has been converted to a conventional across-the-frame draglink the box is trying to rip itself off the frame at a 90* angle from what the factory intended. The stock IFS frames have more internal bracing in the box mounting area because of this.

The stock (key here is stock OEM Toyota, not cheapo-parts-store-replacement) U-joints are very strong for their size. As long as you grease them regularly they are hard to break. It's rare to just break one all of a sudden. Usually you hammer on the truck enough and it will flat-spot the needle bearings from shock load. This will show up as slop in the U-joint during your next pre-trip checkover/greasing (you do these, right...) and you can address it before well before it leaves you stranded.

It's somewhat common on higher mileage IFS box's to leak from either the sector shaft seal or the input shaft seal. If your savvy you can replace these seals. Otherwise, swapping another box in will be required.

I've swapped a few trucks over to 63" chevy springs. The amount of lift will be determined by you hanger location and shackle length/location. Without frenching the hangers into the frame it is hard to get less than 3.5" of lift. Most peoples setups end up with between 4 and 5.5" lift.

The advantages of running stock rear springs up front (almost always with a few extra "custom" cut stock springs added in) is that the offset centerpin allows a slight wheelbase stretch to increase approach angle. They are also budget friendly.


The E-lockers are stupid expensive (junkyards get over $1000 for a used 3rd member) and don't exactly bolt in to your current housings. You have to get the stock-type paper gasket to use as a template to relocate a couple mounting studs. The actuator motor and housing will require some grinding to clear the U-bolts and spring pack when used up front. They are also not that strong. Research how little spline engagement is responsible for keeping the diff locked. They also require either an aftermarket harness, or some wiring ability.

Aussie lockers are fairly inexpensive at about $260 and very durable. I've installed a few and they work very well. Less tire wear on the street when drive properly when compared to a spool/weled diff.

I wish I could find any older 4runner with that little rust. Everyone up here in the northeast is being eaten alive by rust, it's very depressing to fight such a loosing battle.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Thank you for the input Meat Monkey. I have only driven this rig a couple of times so far, and am new to wrenching on 1:1 4x4's, but not to wrenching. I told myself that I would do all of the work to this rig on my own. So my first modification will be purchasing a welder. :for:

Here is my current game plan:

63" rear springs (Haven't decided on frenched or not, more on that later)
Maybe Creeper Shackle Mounts
Greasable Shackles

Rears up front or All pro fronts
Maybe drill the spring perch for another inch of wheelbase if I feel I need more
Once again maybe creeper shackle mounts
Greasable Shackles

Fiberglass High Clearance Front Fenders (found a killer deal)
Perhaps Glass Bedsides as well
Completely Revamp steering
Greasable Shackles

35-37" Tires
Rear Locker
Hydro Assist


I'm not sure I want to bob it, I really like the full length bed for running trails. If I don't bob it I'm not sure I should try and make her ride as low.

Eventually get a set of longs and chromo rear axles, disc's, doublers, etc.

It sure would be cool to bob it, stretch it, keep it low and run 39's though.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xFord View Post

What the heck mounted here?


To expand a bit more on what TREE said, it's where the torque rod attached, to help prevent brake steer when using the stock drag link steering. Since you have cross-over steering, this is no longer an issue and it can be cut off or just ignored. You should see the other mounting point inside the front of the frame.




Quote:
Originally Posted by meatmonkey View Post
...Everyone up here in the northeast is being eaten alive by rust, it's very depressing to fight such a loosing battle.
That's one thing I don't miss about Vermont.

Last edited by C*H*U*D; 04-22-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Ok, I need some help diagnosing the sketchy ass steering on this thing.

I shot a video of the steering components. The shaft and U joints seem fine, the rubber fittings all seem to have play and I suspect the IFS Box does as well.

Thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE67...m-upload_owner

The video can be viewed in 1080p.
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

You definitely need new ball joints.

And is the tranny mount broken?
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Old 11-25-2014, 02:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Need tie rod ends...pick up some new FJ80 rod ends from somewhere like lowrangeoffroad.com Looks like the shifter is just reacting to the lope in the motor. Seems like it's misfiring pretty bad. A better test/demonstration of the trans mounts would be to shoot a video driving down the road and getting on and off the gas rapidly...if the mounts are bad the shifters will rock back and forth substantially.

Have you checked the trunion bearings in the knuckles? If not...jack up one side of the front axle at a time and attempt to "wiggle" the tire top to bottom...NOT side to side. This will either indicate trunion bearing play (similar to bad ball joints), or wheel bearing play. Wiggling side to side with the opposite tire on the ground will allow you to see play in the tie rod ends on either side.

Last edited by ittybitty; 11-25-2014 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

I am so tempted to sell this thing and start over fresh with a stock vehicle.

So I can replace tie rod ends and perhaps more steering components, wheel bearings, trunion bearings, etc. Then move on to drivetrain mounts, then address the suspension....and hopefully have a fun rig that is street able with zero power.

Or, sell it, get my money back out of it, throw in some more and buy a ZJ, XJ, or TJ. But none of the Jeeps have the style that these old yotas have....Hmmm.....
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
You definitely need new ball joints.

And is the tranny mount broken?
How can you tell it needs ball joints from that video?

And no clue on the trans mount but I suspect there is a broken mount somewhere. I've only driven this thing a handful of times so far. Torn on what to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ittybitty View Post
Need tie rod ends...pick up some new FJ80 rod ends from somewhere like lowrangeoffroad.com Looks like the shifter is just reacting to the lope in the motor. Seems like it's misfiring pretty bad. A better test/demonstration of the trans mounts would be to shoot a video driving down the road and getting on and off the gas rapidly...if the mounts are bad the shifters will rock back and forth substantially.

Have you checked the trunion bearings in the knuckles? If not...jack up one side of the front axle at a time and attempt to "wiggle" the tire top to bottom...NOT side to side. This will either indicate trunion bearing play (similar to bad ball joints), or wheel bearing play. Wiggling side to side with the opposite tire on the ground will allow you to see play in the tie rod ends on either side.
I just thought it was the cam making it lope.

The shifters do rock from torque as you described. I'm just going to assume all drivetrain mounts should be replaced.

I have not checked the bearing but I do believe you are right, this rig was mudded a lot before it got to me. and it has offset wheels with large tires.
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Old 11-25-2014, 06:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Sorry, I didn't mean the control arm ball joints (although, if those are stock, they are probably bad as well)....I meant the rod end ball joints. A ball and socket joint should never be loose or floppy when in the bench. It should be difficult to move by hand....otherwise it needs to be replaced.
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Lets get this straight, there are no Toyota solid axles that utilize ball jolints. They all use a far superior trunion bearing setup. They are fairly durable, but years of abuse under wide tires, on wide wheels, with wheel spacers, will eventually take their toll and result in worn/sloppy trunion bearings. The rebuild kits are fairly inexpensive, but it's kind of a pain to correctly setup the knuckle shims without the hard to find factory tool. And I'm not talking about a spring scale...

I'm constantly telling people that all these old Toyotas need motor and transfer case mounts. Seems most of the ones I do motor swaps on have the mounts completely separated.

I'm a cheap prick so instead of replacing them I just through-drill the motor mounts and bolt the two half's together. This keeps them from pulling apart, but still allows the rubber to squish a little bit. The same theory can be done to the transfer case mounts using 4 long 8mm bolts. Funny how this little trick improves creepability and throttle response on the trail. I've also had it fix "shudders" when hitting washboards on back roads that are caused by the drivetrain literally flopping around.

If you think it is a pain to essentially return and older Toyota to stock reliable configuration, then wait until you have a Jeep and realize that basically everything under the frame is extra flimsy and won't even hold up to offroad abuse in the stock configuration. What I'm saying is that you have a truck that has been hammered for who knows how long, and it will still hold up better in the long run, once repaired, than a non-abused stock kept Jeep.

Sure your 22RE is short on power, but you can hold it WOT for as long a you want and not break anything. Where as if your rocking a Jeep 4.0 you can easily break dana 30 and 35 axle parts with a poorly planned blip of the throttle when its bound up. Yeah, power is fun and reliability is underrated.

Your tie rod ends have scary amounts of play. You should probably replace them before you kill a bus load of nuns.

It's hard to tell in the video, but the steering box should have virtually no play between when you turn the steering shaft and when the pitman arms turns. It is possible to adjust the slop out, but most are so worn that once the slop is gone your left with "tight" spots in the steering which isn't much better.

I vote you go through it and fix all the previous owners "upgrades" and wheel it for another decade or two. Then when it's really hammered sell it to me for cheap to go through again. lol.
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatmonkey View Post
Sure your 22RE is short on power, but you can hold it WOT for as long a you want and not break anything. Where as if your rocking a Jeep 4.0 you can easily break dana 30 and 35 axle parts with a poorly planned blip of the throttle when its bound up. Yeah, power is fun and reliability is underrated.
I used to break them with my 2.5L.
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: 4xFord's 85 4Runner

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatmonkey View Post
If you think it is a pain to essentially return and older Toyota to stock reliable configuration, then wait until you have a Jeep and realize that basically everything under the frame is extra flimsy and won't even hold up to offroad abuse in the stock configuration. What I'm saying is that you have a truck that has been hammered for who knows how long, and it will still hold up better in the long run, once repaired, than a non-abused stock kept Jeep.
He's on point with this section...as well as the others, but especially with this one. I use to be a die hard Jeep fan, but with the latest batch of Chrysler products being called "Jeeps" I sold mine and haven't looked back. Now I wheel a Samurai with Yota running gear.

I also get fed up with people telling others they have to run 1 tons. So...before anyone gets to you on that subject...just forget it. As long as you drive with some common sense 90% of the time and aren't running >40" tires the Yota axles are PLENTY (with the right upgrades)!



You've got a great rig and I have no doubt you'd have very little trouble unloading it if you choose to do so, but I'm with everyone else here in saying that with just a little work and some very inexpensive parts you can have an even better rig.
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