Warning: Stupid Alignment Question Ahead!

[BJoe]

Is there any danger to take a vehicle that has some inherent, factory spec rear toe-in and having that dialed back to zero or as close to that as possible without doing anything to change the camber or ride height?

Pretty much everything I've owned and most of what I have driven over the last 24 years has had some sort of solid rear axle (front, rear, and four wheel drive), but my 200 is equipped with an independent rear suspension and seems to have a bit of a taste for rear tires, right rear in particular (on a FWD, no less?!) as well as the rear having a slight twitch to the left on some bumps. The car is supposed to have some camber and toe, but I'm wondering if it is a bit too excessive on the toe end of things. I've talked to a couple.places about it and they'll only do stock settings and tell me that it needs toe in to go in a straight line safely, but the experience I've had with my solid axle vehicles as well as the R/C's that can set the toe-in to zero seemed to have better tire wear in the back as well as roll more freely, and turn tighter.

What say you guys?!

[maslin]

They can set it to anything they want. They won't, because someone will crash their car and sue them for setting the alignment incorrectly.

Newer cars wear tires, that's all there seems to be to it. Mercedes are lucky to get 15k on a set. Price out some 295/40R21 Pirellis, imagine that every year

[BJoe]

There's a Goodyear dealer near me that did do custom alignments as of a few years back when I bought the Wranglers that are currently on my XJ, I may have to see if they'll still do that. Weird part about the tire wear, the factory junk (225/50SR18 Eagle LS2's) lasted 34k, but after a while started to wear excessively in the back, right rear in particular, and the BFG g-Force Comp2 A/S (in 235/50ZR1 tires I have now are nearing 15k and the the ones that had been on the right rear for about 7k is already down to 4/32", the left rear was at 5/32" and the ones on the front were both at 6/32".

BTW, I looked up those Pirellis on Tire Rack.........the ones show started at nearly $200 more than the $138 I paid for those BFG's and even more expensive still than the Tire Rack price of $101 on the O.E.M. junk the car came with.................no thanks!

[allanon1965]

The reason your independent rear suspension needs toe in is because of road force acting on all the components. There is a surprising amount of give in the bushings and links...the old solid rear axles did not have that issue. If you set your toe to zero, you can bet there will be increased toe wear on the tires.

Mercedes requires a toe spreader bar on the front tires to simulate road force when aligning them. Sure you can do it without one, but it won't be correct going down the road...there are a few requirements for European and domestic cars on alignment procedures that never get done at the quickie alignment places...things like a full tank of fuel, specified amounts of weight in the front seats and trunk to name a few.

I am a retired ASE Certified Automotive Technician who spent 31 + years doing alignments.....

[maslin]

Originally Posted by allanon1965

The reason your independent rear suspension needs toe in is because of road force acting on all the components. There is a surprising amount of give in the bushings and links...the old solid rear axles did not have that issue. If you set your toe to zero, you can bet there will be increased toe wear on the tires.

Mercedes requires a toe spreader bar on the front tires to simulate road force when aligning them. Sure you can do it without one, but it won't be correct going down the road...there are a few requirements for European and domestic cars on alignment procedures that never get done at the quickie alignment places...things like a full tank of fuel, specified amounts of weight in the front seats and trunk to name a few.

I am a retired ASE Certified Automotive Technician who spent 31 + years doing alignments.....

Sure do. We don't play the weight in the trunk game, I think that's BMW and Porsche. Have to calibrate the ride height before an alignment too, if the car has air or hydraulic suspension. Then drive it in the highway to bring the ride height back, then align it again

Everything has toe in front and rear, zero toe is a thing of the past on anything without a solid rear axle.

Master Mercedes shop foreman for me, a little over 10 years in. Can't wait to write Retired in front of that

[BJoe]

Now can toe be minimized, or since it's basically a slightly lowered Sebring (they sit about 3/4" lower in the front and 1/2" lower in the rear vs the '08-'10 Sebring right from the factory), would it be possible to use the Sebring's specs?

[maslin]

It has nothing to do with specs. You do the alignment, the computer says what it should be and where it is. Adjust to the spec, or adjust to 0*, a person has to physically adjust the toe. 2 mouse clicks and you can change the spec to read anything you want.

The liability of adjusting the alignment to the "wrong" specs is probably enough that shop won't do it. Find a smaller shop without a corporate billboard out front.

[allanon1965]

Originally Posted by maslin

Sure do. We don't play the weight in the trunk game, I think that's BMW and Porsche. Have to calibrate the ride height before an alignment too, if the car has air or hydraulic suspension. Then drive it in the highway to bring the ride height back, then align it again

Everything has toe in front and rear, zero toe is a thing of the past on anything without a solid rear axle.

Master Mercedes shop foreman for me, a little over 10 years in. Can't wait to write Retired in front of that

I could fill at least 2 pages of this thread with all the crap you are supposed to do but most Euro vehicles are a pain to align. If we charged for the time to do a proper alignment, no one would pay it and say we were ripping them off cause the guy down the street does it for 79.99.... after I retired, I found out how much I HATED dealing with problem people and the junk they drive.. I have so much less stress now it aint funny