Gelande chassis issues & upgrade options

[DRW-FJ40]

Hey guys, not sure if this is the best place for this but...

I bought a Gelande kit last year at tax time & just now finding the $ to complete it.

from skimming other build threads, I can see that the Gelande chassis will need some upgrades. Rather than hijack threads, I figured I'd ask a few questions & hopefully that others are looking for.

1. Drive shafts seem to be 1st on the list. the Scale Steel Punisher Shaft (100-135mm) 5mm, are RC4WD reccomended upgrades. Anyone found shafts they like better?

2. Shocks. Mine don't hold the weight of the body. Again, RC4WD has HD springs but... $30 to replace, what seems to me, like defective springs... Anyone like these springs? Any cheaper options for springs? What about 90mm shocks?

3. Billet axle casings. I've never broke an axle casing & I've never had metal ones. Why would you need metal on this particuar axle?

4. What about the shaft connecting the motor to the t-case?

5. XVDs? are they worth the upgrade? I got some for a Venom Creeper years ago & they didn't fit & couldn't get support.

6. aluminum knuckles? obviously stronger but, neccessary?

7. Mounting motor to disruptor. I quickly mounted a Tekin 35T & my drive shafts wouldn't turn. I was assuming it was a mesh issue & haven't opened it up to look but... I'm reading a lot of threads about motors not fitting. wus up with that?? And... Is it just me or is that tranny particulary difficult to see/adjust gear mesh other than trial and error? Is there something obvious I've missed?

Any issues I missed?

I'm trying to prioritise what I spend my pitence hobby budget on this season & want to cover the most common failures. Any reccomendations?

Thanks in advance. Hope to get some good imput & others can benefit from.

[IKke]

1. 1st 2nd and 3rd thing that broke on mine, were the driveshafts. Replaced them with steel junfac ones.
2. Same here, I stretched the springs a bit which seems to help slightly. You can get some stiff 80mm aluminium shocks from ebay for less than 10usd for 4 shipped.
3. Mine are still running fine, just don't tighten screws to hard.
4. I'm still using the original one that came with it. Not much of a problem imo and certainly not a priority if you are on a low budget.
5. As far as i know the main benefit is that they can handle bigger steering angles.
6. Not necessary IMO. Just run a tap through the screw holes to avoid breaking them when you try to put a screw in them. A M3 tap should do the trick.
7. Everything lines up great due to the snug fit between the hole for the motor in the lid and the motor, and between the housing and the lid. Also the drive line seems to move freer now that i have run it a dozen times. I guess it just had to run in.

Here is a link to my build thread and the issues i had and how i solved them

[skottoman]

1. I've only used the Junfac driveshafts on my truck, and like them a lot. These new ones even have a ring around the pins in case the grub screw backs out. Great shafts.
2. Like I mentioned I'm using Tamiya F201 springs. You may just want to get new shocks, or try and find some different springs. Stock springs are *weak*
3. I don't see a problem with the plastic axle casings, but some have mentioned that it's possible to break the front C hub carrier. I'll wait to see if that happens. (Part of the reason I got the RC4WD universals).
4. I couldn't for the life of me get the shaft connecting the gearbox to transfer to not bind. Part of it had to do with the fact the grub screw was only on 1 side, and that made it attach with a slight angle. I replaced it with the RC4wd truck Mega shaft, but had to move the gearbox up to only attach with 2 screws to the chassis instead of 4. Seems strong enough. My driveline now is smooth as can be. Amazing difference.
5. Benefit is the dogbone can't pop out and catch on your axle, thus snapping the dogbone, or C hub carrier. Better turning angle also.
6. I ordered the aluminum ones, because one of my knuckles came CRACKED from the factory where they screwed in the screw. Great....
7. The reason a silvercan motor won't fit is because the diameter of the part that sticks out with the driveshaft is too large. Other motors fit the opening. The gear mesh has to be done via trial and error somewhat. You can put the pinion (another thing I upgraded from RC4wd because the stock one appears to be cast, and I've seen people break them), on the end of the motor, and hold it in proper mesh with the gears, without the mounting plate, and see how far it has to go onto the drive shaft. Then mount it and test for smoothness, pull apart, test, repeat.


In retrospect, I don't think I'd buy this chassis again. Just too many parts that are weak, and could fail. It's almost like they sell you this kit which required you to upgrade if you want something smooth, non-binding, and reliable. That said, now that I've thrown $ at it, and upgraded many of the parts, it seems like a strong reliable chassis that crawls along very realistically. I'm glad I have it, just not happy I had to throw $ at it just to make it reliable. If it was $100 less, I'd prob be happier. As it stands I'm almost $1k into this chassis and Defender 90 body...

Cheers,
Skottoman

[DRW-FJ40]

Thanks guys. all of it makes a lot more sense now. I'm going to give the junfac drive shafts a go. I had a bad experience with them once & swore I wouldn't buy again... but they're a lot less than the RC4WD. I think I'm going to try some 90mm shocks. If I don't like them, they'll fit on something else.

I went with the full external roll cage, bumper, wireless winch, 3racing lights, so yea, I'm feeling the cost. If I was buying now, I'd probably get a TF2 & stick a SCX10 chassis under the D90 but... here I am. I have a feeling my Tekin 35T just needs tweaked a bit.

As someone said, if it worked perfect out of the box, it wouldn't be a landy. Right??

[skottoman]

Originally Posted by DRW-FJ40

As someone said, if it worked perfect out of the box, it wouldn't be a landy. Right??

That's funny because I said something very similar to my wife as I was explaining why I was buying more parts for a NEW chassis... hahaa...

[DRW-FJ40]

Originally Posted by skottoman

That's funny because I said something very similar to my wife as I was explaining why I was buying more parts for a NEW chassis... hahaa...

You're a braver man than I... explaining the justification for buy scale chassis parts to your wife... Maybe I'm asking the wrong advice

Are these the springs you're running on the stock shocks:

Tamiya America Item #53515 | RC F201 Racing Spring Set

It looks like it comes with 6 springs, are you using 8 total?

even if I had to buy two sets, they're still cheaper than RC4WD.

[skottoman]

Originally Posted by DRW-FJ40

Are these the springs you're running on the stock shocks:

Tamiya America Item #53515 | RC F201 Racing Spring Set

It looks like it comes with 6 springs, are you using 8 total?

Honestly I'm not sure exactly *which* springs I'm using right now, they are silver and from my stash of F201 springs. I'm pretty sure they were the kit springs, not the hop-up racing spring set. But any of them would work I think. Maybe softer the better, mine are pretty rigid right now.

That said, I think TamiyaUSA is selling the stock springs really cheap. I think this is a set of 2 for $.55!?
Tamiya America Item #9805835 | RC Coil Spring: 58288

Anyway, I am only using 4 springs, and keeping 4 of the stock ones. Each shock has an F201 spring, and a stock spring.

I think if you got ANY F201 spring set, you could play around with the different weights and decide which works best for you. I do know they are the correct diameter as I have them on my truck.

Good luck,
Skottoman

[cbp27]

I agree with what IKke and skottoman said.

1. I actually ran MIP shafts on mine but Junfac is good too. I've used them before and they've worked fine.

2. I didn't like the stock shocks. Mine leaked badly, but I guess some people run them dry. I would try a cheap set of springs first before trying new shocks. I eventually went with Axial's aluminum bodied 90mm shocks. They have a lot of travel, optional spring rates available, and are cheaper than Pro-Line's Powerstrokes.

3. I had bad luck with my axle casings. And like IKke said, don't tighten the screws too much or you might crack them. The axles cracking was the last straw for me with this chassis, but a lot of others seem to be luckier.

4. The tranny to transfer shaft should be fine. I ended up replacing mine though with a cheap hybrid. A plastic Traxxas Revo shaft (cut down) and stock Axial metal yokes. That's what I used on my stock SCX10 before I upgraded to MIP and Junfac.

5. I got the XVD's right before I decided to switch my chassis so I didn't get to test them. You'll get a smaller turning radius and it's a stronger and smoother piece. I read on here that the pins tend to snap under a heavy load and people replace them with Gunner pins. Don't get the XVD's unless you really want to keep this rig to keep the cost down for now.

6. I had my plastic knuckles crack. RC4WD sends the kit with a short self-tapping screw into the knuckle arm. I replaced it with a longer fine thread screw completely through with a nut on the other end.
(Don't worry. I got rid of the tire chain before it had a chance to eat up the knuckle. haha)


7. I tried the stock tranny with a Holmes motor. You can only use a 15T pinion I believe and have to make sure the mesh is correct (not easy). I'm sure the Disruptor tranny will work, but I gave up and used an Axial tranny.

I really hope this helps you. RC4WD didn't do so well with this chassis IMO, especially with it's high price point. The plastic should've been stronger and it should've been tested more before final release. But others have had better luck with the Gelande so all is not lost. Just be prepared for these upgrades. Good luck!

[DRW-FJ40]

Much thanks to everyone who responded. A lot of good info/experience. Just what I was hoping for.

Good to know the axial aluminum 90mm work. I can't order the HD springs from RC4WD out of principle. I was looking at the chassis last night & the shocks are half compressed with nothing more than a motor on it. They should have provided the HD springs to anyone who bought a gelande for free. I mean, how much does a spring cost??

I ordered the Junfac shafts & I'm going to try the Tamiya springs. at that price, it's worth a try.

It is a bit tuff to be adding upgrades to the basket on this chassis when you see the TF2 for only $10 more. But... it is a cool looking truck & I'm havin' fun with it.... It's just money, right?

[IKke]

Originally Posted by DRW-FJ40

I can't order the HD springs from RC4WD out of principle.

I had the same problem

[AxialJeepster]

I think RC4WD is a GREAT site/buisness.. BUT they lack in many areas, thats the bottom line...if you can, go with Axial parts if you upgrade, where you can anyways. and the knuckles do need upgraded. My experience with RC4WD is good exept for
"Anything RC4WD containing Gears blow up", or fall apart... nothing against RC4WD at all i love what they have brought to the table!!! the TF2 looks awesome!
Prob the wrong message for this thread BUT I did try to give some advice pertaining to your questions Good luck

[DRW-FJ40]

Searching for some answers & came across my own thread.

Figured I would update it & maybe I can get some new ideas to make this thing a better performer.

1st question, anyone know what size screw the body mounts are? I'm guessing a M2 8mm but.... I seem to have lost them all.

2nd is performance. What have you all done to improve it?

Here is what I ended up doing to change what came with the chassis:

1. Junfac drive shafts
2. Power Stroke shocks.
3. Dirt grabber tires

Here is what I know I need to do to improve performance:

1. Ditch the pretty body. roof rack ways a ton & makes it too top heavy. It will be for show & I already have another for play.
2. Same with the tires, like the dirtgrabbers but the weight is squashing 'em.

Here are some ideas & interested in what anyone has to say:

• Need to improve steering: metal rod ends, aluminum knuckles (what does the high clearance knuckles get you?), XVDs, metal housings. Not sure what combination of these things work best to improve steering but....
  
• bent rod ends for suspension links. I've heard this makes a big difference. anyone tried them?
  
• any other ideas?

Here are some pics & you can see from the last pic, I added a TFtoo 2 the stable. so... don't expect to get the Gelande on that level but looking for ways to make it better:

[doc.hamilton]

I too purchased the gelande chassis even after all the "issues" I read about them. Mine drives ok, but as mentioned could use better steering components. I purchased this to make a D90 trail runner, not so much of a crawler - something water resistant - to ford creeks etc. Right now it's sitting in the box it arrived in with plans to work on it over the winter. I really appreciate what this thread has to offer. I was considering making mine a soft top of sorts, though my modeling skills would surely be put to the test. It's been awhile since I last scratch built something...

Thanks again for posting your questions and to those who've responded!!!

Cheers,
Todd

[cbp27]

Originally Posted by DRW-FJ40

1st question, anyone know what size screw the body mounts are? I'm guessing a M2 8mm but.... I seem to have lost them all.

2nd is performance. What have you all done to improve it?

Here is what I know I need to do to improve performance:

1. Ditch the pretty body. roof rack ways a ton & makes it too top heavy. It will be for show & I already have another for play.
2. Same with the tires, like the dirtgrabbers but the weight is squashing 'em.

Need to improve steering: metal rod ends, aluminum knuckles (what does the high clearance knuckles get you?), XVDs, metal housings. Not sure what combination of these things work best to improve steering but....

I believe the body screws are M2.5 but I could be wrong. Don't have it anymore to check.

Like I said in my previous post I upgraded/replaced much of the Gelande running parts. MIP driveshafts, Axial SCX-10 transmission, Pro-Line Powerstroke shocks, and new hex hardware from McMaster Carr. Even with all of those upgrades, the links, axles, and transfer unit were still stock and could be improved. I added XVD's and those gave more steering, yet the plastic components of the axles were weak, and eventually failed. It wasn't worth it for me to upgrade the axles to all aluminum. That's why I eventually switched to the SCX-10 chassis. RC4WD's Yota aluminum axles always interested me but it's too late to try now.

I liked the Dirt Grabber tires for scale looks. I didn't get to test them too much, but they seemed okay. If they're collapsing too much, maybe try a stiffer foam or even a two-stage foam. Mud Thrashers are always a good looking tire and they perform pretty well too.

[DRW-FJ40]

thanks, 2.5 may be right. I remember they were wierd & I couldn't find more in my stores.

Thanks for the imput. I don't want to put more money that I have to into this but now that the initial sting is off the radar, I'm wanting to make it better, I'm sorta dumb that way. I have an SCX10, TF2, CR01 & don't like to have two of the same thing.

somewhere in the recesses of my mind, I feel I can make this thing more fun to drive.

Yes, the foam is way too soft in the dirtgrabbers but for playing, I want some more beef! I have a few different tires to try.

Oh and Doc, yea trail runner here too. one thing I forgot to mention on the steering is I tucked the servo way up to hide it & angles on my links suffered even with spacers. So need to bring the servo down a little in the chassis. It should still be hidden pretty well.

[photocycler]

Bringing an old thread up.

In research mode as I want to run a D90 body and deciding to go with the Gelande or the SCX.

Any long terms reviews here, did you end up getting the truck where you are happy with its performance?

[DRW-FJ40]

Originally Posted by photocycler

Bringing an old thread up.

In research mode as I want to run a D90 body and deciding to go with the Gelande or the SCX.

Any long terms reviews here, did you end up getting the truck where you are happy with its performance?

Ha! You did dig up an old one. Yes, I did get to a point where I was happy with it but... This is the Gelande 1. I have since procured a Gelande 2 which out performs this one straight out of the box. The one thing I did on the G1 that hinders performance is that steel rack with all the stuff on top which could easily be changed but I like the way it looks & now with the G1, I just drive that one when I want performance.

The only thing that I would and did change right out of the box with the G2 is the tires & drive shafts. I love the dirt grabbers for their looks, one of my favorite tires... but the genlande needs a bit stiffer side wall & a little more diameter and volume really improves performance. Plastic drive shafts seem to work fine for some people but I've always found them to be a "matter of time" replacement. MIP makes some nice looking ones but I believe I stole some Gmade off another truck.

G2 is a sweet chassis though. It has link suspension compared to leaf on the TF2 and turning radius is a big plus compared to the old G1 not to mention all the little things like battery tray, shocks that actually hold the truck up, etc.

[DRW-FJ40]

And looking back at where I left off... Steel Landies with Tomahawks, aluminum Trex 60 knuckles and some fine tuning on the steering linkage is what I've done since. The steering is better but not near as good as the G2 right out of the box.

Some people didn't like the tranny on the G1. I never had trouble with it but the G2 is a completely different design.

[DRW-FJ40]

Oh! and before the SCX10 vs. whatever debate comes up... you can see in the last photo, I have an SCX10 on the right there & a Tamiya CR01, RC4WD TF2, Gelande I & II and a Tamiya Hilux highlift.

There is no "best" one. The only one I would not recommend for driving is the highlift although a very fun build, Tamiya kits are my favorite to build.

If you have the luxury of owning all of them, that's what I recommend. They are all fun for different reasons. If I had to pick one, I don't know that I could. The CR01 was my first crawler, it has sort of a cult following & all my kids learned to drive with it. The TF2 and Gelande 2 are similar, both are very scale driving experiences, beautiful craftsmanship on the chassis, not only the engineering but fit & finish on the aluminum... just fun to look at, not to mention the detail on the ABS bodies on these two is really nice. The link suspension on the G2 should out perform the leafs on the TF2 but I haven't noticed a substantial difference in performance. The SCX10 will "out crawl" any of them but almost to a fault... what I mean by that is that you don't really have to pay as much attention while driving it. partly because it's a solid performer, partly because it's very durable and you don't worry as much about doing something dumb that results in mechanical failure (also a great truck for kids to learn on or to lend to friends who aren't experienced) and partly because Lexan bodies are durable and less expensive to replace.

The TF2 and G2 are my favorites to drive because I don't want to damage my pretty bodies that are 1. expensive and 2. I've put a lot of time into detailing and finishing them. The chassis are realistically capable, i.e. the Tamiya Hilux is a beautiful body but very challenging to drive in a manner that gives you the control needed to protect the body, mainly the monster tranny gets hung on everything. This is the same concern I have when driving my 1:1 fj40 off road; I don't want to roll it over and I don't want to smash up fenders and what not but I want to play hard so... I'm careful... and I use judgment... and I get really focused when driving it in precarious spots.... the same sensations I experience while driving the RC4WD trucks.... so it's a more real driving experience for me and holds my ADD inflicted brain's attention better.

And... there are ways to make all of them better performers and you can certainly put an ABS body on any chassis but there is that money factor. The highlift is expensive to start with and to make it perform well requires additional $... Why not just start with a TF2 if you want a Toyota truck that performs well?

But don't listen to me... or anyone who says "just get an SCX10"... do your research and think about what you want to get out of the hobby and decide for yourself because there is no "best" one.

Ok, I'm stepping off my soapbox...

The End.

[photocycler]

Originally Posted by DRW-FJ40

Oh! and before the SCX10 vs. whatever debate comes up... you can see in the last photo, I have an SCX10 on the right there & a Tamiya CR01, RC4WD TF2, Gelande I & II and a Tamiya Hilux highlift.

There is no "best" one. The only one I would not recommend for driving is the highlift although a very fun build, Tamiya kits are my favorite to build.

If you have the luxury of owning all of them, that's what I recommend. They are all fun for different reasons. If I had to pick one, I don't know that I could. The CR01 was my first crawler, it has sort of a cult following & all my kids learned to drive with it. The TF2 and Gelande 2 are similar, both are very scale driving experiences, beautiful craftsmanship on the chassis, not only the engineering but fit & finish on the aluminum... just fun to look at, not to mention the detail on the ABS bodies on these two is really nice. The link suspension on the G2 should out perform the leafs on the TF2 but I haven't noticed a substantial difference in performance. The SCX10 will "out crawl" any of them but almost to a fault... what I mean by that is that you don't really have to pay as much attention while driving it. partly because it's a solid performer, partly because it's very durable and you don't worry as much about doing something dumb that results in mechanical failure (also a great truck for kids to learn on or to lend to friends who aren't experienced) and partly because Lexan bodies are durable and less expensive to replace.

The TF2 and G2 are my favorites to drive because I don't want to damage my pretty bodies that are 1. expensive and 2. I've put a lot of time into detailing and finishing them. The chassis are realistically capable, i.e. the Tamiya Hilux is a beautiful body but very challenging to drive in a manner that gives you the control needed to protect the body, mainly the monster tranny gets hung on everything. This is the same concern I have when driving my 1:1 fj40 off road; I don't want to roll it over and I don't want to smash up fenders and what not but I want to play hard so... I'm careful... and I use judgment... and I get really focused when driving it in precarious spots.... the same sensations I experience while driving the RC4WD trucks.... so it's a more real driving experience for me and holds my ADD inflicted brain's attention better.

And... there are ways to make all of them better performers and you can certainly put an ABS body on any chassis but there is that money factor. The highlift is expensive to start with and to make it perform well requires additional $... Why not just start with a TF2 if you want a Toyota truck that performs well?

But don't listen to me... or anyone who says "just get an SCX10"... do your research and think about what you want to get out of the hobby and decide for yourself because there is no "best" one.

Ok, I'm stepping off my soapbox...

The End.

Wow..that was a great reply. Really appreciate this perspective—makes a lot of sense. I always wondered how far you guys who spend so much time on the detail of these bodies really push the limits. It really puts it in perspective.

I do have a SCX and in that consideration phase. These D90's will always be somewhat limited with the top heavy aspect, so I think its fait to only ask so much from a scale vehicle like this.