Oxy Acetylene welding for chassis and parts

[npcaldwell]

Alright guys I think I've been bit by the Southern Buggy bug, building something myself and making it my own really appeals to me, I think I have enough fabrication skills and a severe case of tinker-itis to go with them to pull it off.

My question is this has anyone successfully built a buggy using oxy acetylene gas welding? I've done quite a bit of gas welding on other smallish projects but not this small or intricate. I don't have a TIG welder but I do have a set of bottles and a small victor torch and tips. I imagine with a 000 tip a guy could make small enough connections with pretty good control of the puddle. I would prefer to weld over braze, not to step on the chassis builders toes who do braze because I have seen some awesome work done by brazing here on the forum, but my background is more in welding so welding just appeals to me more. Now if I could only source some 1/32" or smaller E7018...

I'm thinking 3/16' and 1/4" hydraulic tubing would be the best to play with first, due to it being non coated and mild steel, I have also considered using stainless tubing and some .035" mig wire as filler. I don't expect to make Warren quality TIG welds but I think I can pull off something finer than a MIG can produce. I don't think I'd jump straight into building a buggy chassis, I'll probably start with some a-arms for the Yeti or maybe a bumper to see how it goes first.

Gas welding is a lost art with all the advances in welding technology, but I think it can be done. What do all you builders out there think?

[TheRockRanger]

I just braze with map pro gas, and oxy/acet, gets way hotter, so it would work, and just pick up some 3/16 non coated brake line from Napa, it's like $10 for 60"

[PARTSJEREMY]

Gas welding is fine for these cars. I've done 3/16 brake line and 3/16 stainless. Personally I like working with the brake line because it is dirt cheap. If your going to build a bouncer I think it would be easier to work with the brake line vs stainless. My 2cents

[npcaldwell]

Thanks for the replys, I'm thinking the brake line would be best for starters too.

PARTSJEREMY, what did you use for a flux when doing stainless? Also what wall thickness were you using? I've found some 3/16" and 1/4" locally with an .035 wall.

[warren]

I agree oxy/acetylene welding is a lost art. It's definitely doable though. A small jewelers tip would work great. I use .035 for the majority of my welds but, If you're looking for smaller wire go to your local welding supply store and ask if they have any .028 MIG wire. I would say if you are going with a carbon steel tube over stainless, Definitely clean any mill scale off with a grinding wheel and wipe with a rag to take off any dust or residue left behind. While grinding use light pressure so you don't thin the tube wall anymore than it is. I honestly feel it doesn't matter what process of welding is used the cleaner the better.

Good luck and have fun.

[npcaldwell]

Originally Posted by warren

I agree oxy/acetylene welding is a lost art. It's definitely doable though. A small jewelers tip would work great. I use .035 for the majority of my welds but, If you're looking for smaller wire go to your local welding supply store and ask if they have any .028 MIG wire. I would say if you are going with a carbon steel tube over stainless, Definitely clean any mill scale off with a grinding wheel and wipe with a rag to take off any dust or residue left behind. While grinding use light pressure so you don't thin the tube wall anymore than it is. I honestly feel it doesn't matter what process of welding is used the cleaner the better.

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the advice your work is some of the best out there.

Do you ever use any acetone or toluene to clean with prior to welding stainless?

What about using a flux since I won't be using a shield gas?

[warren]

All my stainless is clean before I buy it. I get it where I work. If there's any dust on it I just use a shop towel with 99% rubbing alcohol on it to wipe it down.

You shouldn't need a flux if the flame is set right on your torch. The secondary flame on the oxy/fuel torch acts as your shielding gas. Since you're actually welding and not brazing, a flux may give you more trouble.

Thank you for the compliment.

[npcaldwell]

I made my first attempt at gas welding stainless tubing last night and got it pretty much figured out, I whipped out a little prerunner bumper for the Yeti for practice. I had the best luck with the oxygen and acetylene set about 4psi, and when setting the torch I'd light the acetylene and make about a six inch flame, then ad the oxygen until I had a slightly carburising flame (bright blue but slightly fuzzy). I was using .030" 308 mig wire and a 000 Victor tip. It seemed nice and controllable once I got the flame right, I'm going to play with flux now and see if it improves anything.

[warren]

Do you have any pics? I'm curious how it turned out.

[Undefined]

Love to see some pics..
I'm thinking of trying to build a few things with oxy/act before I pull out the MIG..it's been 6+ years since I've welded gas...I braze all.the time (HVAC commercial tech)..but man I do miss welding gas!

Sent from a whiskey downer beer pounder's shop

[Undefined]

What you using as a jig to hold your joints together?

Sent from a whiskey downer beer pounder's shop

[npcaldwell]

Originally Posted by Undefined

What you using as a jig to hold your joints together?

Sent from a whiskey downer beer pounder's shop

Right now just a set of vise grips with the little pads that pivot on the ends, I'm working on a jig plate made out of an old stainless steel knife valve knife thats about 14" wide 18" long and 5/8" thick, I'm drilling and tapping 1/4" holes on every square inch of it, similar to Warrens.

[warren]

5/8" stainless? that should get the job done. Better you then me with all that drilling and tapping.

So how bout those pics of the progress?

[magicbullet]

Yes! Pics Please

[npcaldwell]

Originally Posted by warren

5/8" stainless? that should get the job done. Better you then me with all that drilling and tapping.

So how bout those pics of the progress?

Yeah I can't post photos yet, still trying to figure out where to send the money to be a subscriber. Last night I layed out the holes and center punched everything, now for the fun part. We've got an old drill press with a tap mode, I plan to drill one, change out the bit for the tap, then tap one and repeat. I know it's gonna be slow but it should be a nice tool when I'm done with all the holes nice and perpendicular and threaded straight.

Hey warren, I've got some questions. Sometimes when I get everything hot the two pieces I'm welding will puddle but are hesitant to fuse, does that mean the material is dirty? Also for a filler what do you use? I'm using 308 stainless mig wire non flux core, and the tubing I'm using is 1/4" swageloc tubing but I don't know the grade.

[warren]

I use 308 filler. The mig wire you are using should be fine. If the 2 pieces puddle up but don't fuse, try adding a dab of filler to one side of the joint and wash it over to the other side.

[BigSki]

I've done a lot of Oxy/Acetylene brazing on 3/8" dia. brake line for roll cages, bumpers, sliders and other odd-ball parts. I use a '00' tip, set the regulators at 4 psi and I use 1/16" dia. silicon/bronze and Anti-borax flux crystals. Once you get the "feel" for how hot to make the joint and to work the puddle of bronze, it's a very easy and strong way to build with tubing.

[npcaldwell]

Ok so I scrapped rhe stainless jig plate idea, I got it all scribed and center punched then drilled one hole... nope not worth it so I'll try another material.

Now I'm on the hunt for uncoated 3/16" and 1/4" mild steel tubing I called all the local pipe distributors and found a 20' stick of 1/4' with .035 wall for $172.00, um I'm not paying that.
I called all the local brake and hydraulic hose places too with no success, all I found was pre made brake line assemblies at Napa auto.

Where are you guys finding your material to build cages?

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by npcaldwell

Where are you guys finding your material to build cages?

I find mine at a commercial auto parts store. Even if it has the green coating, you can simply chuck it into a drill, spin it up and use some 150 grit sand paper to remove the coating before you bend it.

Mcmaster-Carr is a great resource for hydraulic tubing in a thicker wall as compared to brake line tubing.

[magicbullet]

I buy from these guys: Fmsi Hydraulic Steel Brake Line Replacement Tubing Coil 1 4" OD x 25 ft Roll | eBay FMSI Hydraulic Steel Brake Line Replacement Tubing Coil 1/4" OD x 25 Ft. Roll =$17 and uncoated