RBX10, RYFT, Scale Rock Bouncer

[JDM74]

Well I got the stock tires to work on the SSD wheels. I put in some Proline dual stage foams and used a couple longer screws to start everything and tightened them down with fingers crossed. Everything looks to be ok. See my other post in here for my build.

[Curb Crawler]

Weird you couldn’t get them to mount first time round, there’s nothing obvious stopping them mounting up

[JDM74]

Originally Posted by Curb Crawler

Weird you couldn’t get them to mount first time round, there’s nothing obvious stopping them mounting up

Yeah the only thing I can think of is the stock foam that comes with them was getting stuck between the tire bead and wheel. With the closed cell foam of the prolines there wasn't anything getting stuck there.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by JDM74

Well I got the stock tires to work on the SSD wheels. I put in some Proline dual stage foams and used a couple longer screws to start everything and tightened them down with fingers crossed. Everything looks to be ok. See my other post in here for my build.

I know exactly what you mean. When the stock foams are used on a plastic 1-piece wheel, such as those included in the kit, there's no problem, as the tire is contained entirely within the confines of the wheel, thus the foams are also contained within the wheel. However, as can be seen below, when using beadlock wheels, the stock foams (which are single-stage open-cell) "roll" outside both sides of the capture ring, preventing the tires from properly positioning.
Looks like dual-stage foams are going to be the ONLY solution. Normally, I stick with the CI foams, but I'm willing to give the Pro-Line ones a try (partly because I've been wanting to give them a try, and partly because the CI foams are incredibly difficult to find right now).

For those wondering what wheels these are, they're from Vitavon...and, they are TRUE beadlock wheels. In other words, the beadlock rings are NOT just some decorative feature that you can change with the tires still installed on the wheels - the beadlock rings are integral to holding the tires onto the wheels, just like 1:1 beadlock wheels.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Jay-Em]

For those wondering about the “Overload protection” in the SpektrumSX107 servo : Yes, it has overload protection.. and it’s annoying as heck. Even the slightest strain in switching to the high-speed gearing, wil trigger it, and it will slowly pull the gears out of the high speed setting, resulting in a very loud rattling and connecting gears gnashing.

For now the 2 speed is proving to be too much of a hassle to me, so it’s gonna come out. I’m sick & tired of being wholly unable to get the correct trim and EPA, even with a very advanced RX/TX set. Not worth the trouble. Horrible design, the whole gear-switching servo mechanism. Even the Twin Hammers didn’t cause me that much grief. Axial should take a page from Traxxas’ books. My TRX Bronco NEVER caused any trouble switching gears. It just ‘works’.

Maybe -in due time-I’ll try a different brand, maybe a Savöx micro servo. The Spektrum 107 is only useful as a steering servo for the yeti jr, or a mini-t imho.

[JDM74]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

For those wondering what wheels these are, they're from Vitavon...and, they are TRUE beadlock wheels. In other words, the beadlock rings are NOT just some decorative feature that you can change with the tires still installed on the wheels - the beadlock rings are integral to holding the tires onto the wheels, just like 1:1 beadlock wheels.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

Once upon a time this is how all RC crawler beadlock wheels were made. Axial 8 hole wheels and all of locked up RC wheels are still made this way. I'm sure there are others.

The whole inner ring bead locks came around because people got tired of screwing in 13242134234 screws to assemble their bead locks. Personally, I prefer the old style with a true inner and outer ring. It is much easier to get both beads seated correctly and that style usually doesn't have any issues with proline tires and their weird beads.

Here is my Locked Up RC wheels on my Blazer:

Untitled by JASON MCKIMMEY, on Flickr

[Panther6834]

Regarding the stock tire foams, as mentioned in my previous post, the dual-stage foams arrived yesterday. I've only put together one wheel/tire, but I had no problems...none. The only 'problem' (albeit, an incredibly minor one, and common to ALL beadlock wheels) was properly aligning the tire, outer foam, inner foam, inner ring, etc, to "perfect alignment".

With these Vitavon wheels ..again, TRUE beadlock wheels...I did have to do something I've never had to do before - use longer screws to get things started. Not only did I have to use longer screws, but I had to use two different lengths of longer screws. First, I started with 3 evenly-spaced 16mm screws, tightening them until they couldn't be tightened any further (the design of the wheel limits the meconium depth screws can be screwed in). Next, I used 3 evenly-spaced 12mm screws (spaced evenly between the 16mm screws), tightening them most of the way. This left an estimated 6mm between the beadlock ring & wheel. Finally, I added 6 of the intended 8mm screws, one of each side of the 16mm screws, and then removed the 16mm screws. Once all other holes were filled with screws (ok, get your minds out of the gutter...lol), then I removed th 12mm screws, replacing them with the 8mm screws, and then proceeded to tighten all screws in the usual rotate-screw-rotate-screw process. Alright...now my mind is in the gutter. Anyway, the first wheel/tire is done. The other three will have to wait until tomorrow...time to get ready for work. But, here's what they'll all look like.

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

Maybe -in due time-I’ll try a different brand, maybe a Savöx micro servo. The Spektrum 107 is only useful as a steering servo for the yeti jr, or a mini-t imho.

I'll admit that the design of the whole shifting mechanism isn't "optimal"...but, or does work, and it works quite well. The problem isn't really with the shifting mechanism...the SX107 servo is the REAL PROBLEM. So far, in testing, the PowerHobby 59MG is proving flawless. I haven't yet connected it to Ch3...but, I have had it connected to Ch1, and, using the steering (very carefully, for what should be obvious reasons), the shifting has worked 100% of the time, properly seating the internal 'plate' into low & high every time. Once the PH59MG is plugged into Ch3 on the Rx, it'll just be a matter of setting the endpoints.

Originally Posted by JDM74

Once upon a time this is how all RC crawler beadlock wheels were made. Axial 8 hole wheels and all of locked up RC wheels are still made this way. I'm sure there are others.



The whole inner ring bead locks came around because people got tired of screwing in 13242134234 screws to assemble their bead locks. Personally, I prefer the old style with a true inner and outer ring. It is much easier to get both beads seated correctly and that style usually doesn't have any issues with proline tires and their weird beads.

Thankfully, there area still a few businesses making the "old style" with true inner & outer beadlock rings...but, the ones I'm using did my Ryft are (at least to me) 'good enough'.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Jay-Em]

Afa switching gears goes..Ah, but that’s the treacherous bit, so to speak. On the bench it works. But the moment some power is added, it fails. Odd detail : first gear works fine, whatever endpoint I dial-in. Servo saver does its thing. But 2nd gear? No luck. 107 slowly, but surely creeps back.

Leaving-out the slider pin does not make a difference. It keeps having trouble shifting. Polishing the fork-shaft ending helped a bit. The fit in the gearbox is -apparently- só tight, that it locks itself by friction, even with enough grease added ( tried multiple types, molybdenium, Teflon, Tamiya diff grease, Tamiya hig wear grease, no luck.)

The whole mechanism, ‘bog standard’ as it is, just two gears with locker-nubs and a slider in between, seems to never have been tested in real life after the CAD design, otherwise the too small tolerances would have been pretty obvious.
For now I have locked it in high gear with a bit of tubing and a little mutter at the end of the slider lever/pull shaft.

Maybe I’ll try hexagonal shafts for the fork. Lower friction. I remember some RC’s of yore that used that trick for slidershafts.

On the beadlocks. They are, indeed, a work of art ( and should be, for that price) but there’s a reason that a lazy bum like me prefers just to glue tyres..

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

Afa switching gears goes..Ah, but that’s the treacherous bit, so to speak. On the bench it works. But the moment some power is added, it fails. Odd detail : first gear works fine, whatever endpoint I dial-in. Servo saver does its thing. But 2nd gear? No luck. 107 slowly, but surely creeps back.

While it is possible you haven't seen for endpoints correctly, the BIGGEST problem with your setup...and, something you should have figured out by now...IS the SX107 servo. If you do a search, you'll (very quickly) discover this is a place of garbage. For all those who have built the Capra, SCX10-III, and Ryft kits, see how many are using the SX107 (and having problems), compared to how how many are using other servos. First, it's an analog servo. Second, it's SEVERELY underpowered. Third, even if it does have 'protection' (which I doubt, based on phone calls with HH approx 18 months ago), due to it being so underpowered, it's easy to "kill". Do yourself a HUGE favor, and get rid of the SX107, and replace it with something else...something better.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Timmahh]

What Shock Oils has everyone been using F & R? No sway bar setup yet. Have a Vanquish coming for the Yeti Jr and I should have some 3mm piano wire here.

but want to do up the shocks and wondering what the consensus is on best options.

Anyone using other shocks? As a question for the old file bin.

[Jay-Em]

I got good results with Yeah Racing’s Desert Lizards 120mm. 1.5cm limiters inside for the front, none for the rear. Rear the soft springs wíth a sway, and medium or hard without sway. ( be forewarned, it can lead to donkey-kicks at the rear when using hard) Front medium with 1cm stoppers outside to prevent the servo from slapping in the battery tray.

Both one hole pistons and 100 cps oil. Three hole pistons with 350 cps works too.

Mind You, I went for a somewhat lowered stance, hence the 120mm shocks, instead of the original 130 or 140 ( not sure)
Currently it stands with the original shocks with 1.5cm limiters inside and stock pistons with 100cps oil, because I am about to sell the bloody thing. Too much hassle, and ‘geen hemd en geen broek” —> Neither shirt nor breeches. Does many things, excels in nothing.

I prefer my Wraiths. Opinions differ widely, but for me, they do speed ànd crawling reasonably well, compared to the Ryft, éven with mad 6.5t sensored Xcelerons. ( and only actual “tuning” has been the addition of a swaybar in their rears and steel gearbox innards)

PS @Panther : I disagree with Your ‘garbage’ assesment. The 107 servo’s are pretty strong for such a tiny thing. Haven’t broken or burnt one in my Yeti Jr’s and assorted jetboats, but I do agree they are wholly unsuited for what Axial wants You to use them for : switching gears in a far too tight system that needs crazy amounts of torque to even move. 2.5kg, indeed, isn’t enough. ( Hence my feeling Axial didn’t test that config in practice, at all. Only on paper) Analog, on the other hand, is not really a problem for those applications, as long as there’s enough torque. I use them in all my 2- and 3-speed rigs, never had any problems. ( except when trying them in Spektrum’s blasted TX-RX systems. The currrent ones REALLY don’t like analog servo’s, apparently)

[Panther6834]

120 screws later (24 per wheel, plus 6 "guide" screws used on all four wheels), and they're finished. Dang, these things take a friggin' long time...but, just looking at them, I know it was worth it.
Other than painting the interior & body panels, she's almost ready for final assembly. Still have to program the ESC, calibrate throttle, program the 2-speed shifting, and set endpoints for shifting servo (steering endpoints will be done after final assembly). Oh, yea...and still need to figure out alternate rod ends for the links (still thinking Revo rod ends, if I could only remember the part number).

I hope to get started on the body panels within the next few days (dependant, as usual, on my work schedule). As for the interior, that's "on hold", thanks to the Postal Service screwing up delivery (I'm suspecting the carrier either delivered the package to the wrong address, or 'stole' the package & falsely claiming 'delivered'). I had to order backups (while waiting for the refund from eBay)...but, this time, I ordered from sellers that are stateside.

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

I disagree with Your ‘garbage’ assesment. The 107 servo’s are pretty strong for such a tiny thing. Haven’t broken or burnt one in my Yeti Jr’s and assorted jetboats, but I do agree they are wholly unsuited for what Axial wants You to use them for : switching gears in a far too tight system that needs crazy amounts of torque to even move. 2.5kg, indeed, isn’t enough. ( Hence my feeling Axial didn’t test that config in practice, at all. Only on paper)

I'm confused, as you assist to contradict yourself. First, you say the SX107 is "pretty strong"...and then, a few sentences later, you say their torque "isn’t enough". Either it is strong enough, or it isn't. You might not have killed yours, but PLENTY of other people have. The consensus, based on input from quite a few others, is that the SX107 is seriously underpowered...and, not just for the Ryft, Capra, or SCX10-III, but for other vehicles/vessels. The one in my stepdad's Recoil 17 didn't last very long. The one in my buddy's Losi Mini-B died after less than a month. I could give more examples, but countless others, through various threads, have already started as such. I'm happy for you that yours is still working...but, that didn't appear to be the 'norm', based on the experiences of so many others...it's like you got one of the few "good ones" (if there is such a thing).


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Timmahh]

120mm with 50wt on front.
Moved front stock shock to rear with Rear stock spring on it.

have another set of the 120s, may double up the front, or put them on the rear as they appear to set a bit taller than the stock fronts. I did add SSD Long me ends on the shocks to add a bit of ride height back when going to the 120.

Thought about using the rears (not on the rig atm) as auxiliary rears dampening only (no springs on them) but the sway bar mount is in the way.
So if you thought about Doubling up the shocks in the rear, you would have to not use a sway bar, and may even have to grind the sway bar mounts off.

If the sway mounts were more to the outer edge of the cage, a set of shocks would probably fit in the forward most rear shock mount position. but if you run the sway bar, or don't want to cut the nubs fully off, you MAY be able to squeek a set of shocks in that forward most mount but you'll have to at least remove the cap on the sway bar mount.

Me. I think as I see it run in vids. and then the bit of running I got in today, i'd rather have the sway bar and dual rear shocks.

may put the other 120s on the rear, or double up the front shocks.

Sway bar will be here this week as will a few other things. New Spare front axle housing if I bust one. New rear housing for a spare. A few Mod 1 pinions. Sway Bar. HW Max8/2200 4274 combo. Set of Proline 2.2 Beadlocks (the black ones with the proline on the deadlock ring) and a set of Pitbull Rock Crusher II? (maybe the wrong name but it was the II) on the way. They were used, but not much and look to be in really good condition. Grabbed a set of the SSD Proline center adapters to use as they appear to be needed to use a PL 2.2 Beadlock rim. I presume this is an offset issue. Hope it doesn't increase front wheel scrub. There is already a fair but of scrub in the front end stock.

ALso have a few other things coming. 2 speed kit, reefs 99, yeah racing 25t horn riser. Axail horn adapter kit with the slotted shift horn assemble. 2.5million diff fluids. Seems like I ordered a few other items also. Whatever it was, I spent do freaking much already. lol

Time for a lil Porn.

[Panther6834]

I think it's "interesting", in a not-so-good way, that, when designing the Ryft, Axial had enough knowledge to design in a way to mount dual rear shocks, as well as a sway bar mount, but they did NOT have enough knowledge to design it in such a way for people to install both. It would be like buying a car, only to discover you have the options of upgrading to a high-power head unit, or to better speakers, but not both.

In being forced to pick one, or the other, I'd think going with a sway bar (just NOT the flimsy plastic pieces from Axial) is the better choice. I don't know if Treal, Vanquish, or anyone else, will be producing an aluminum sway bar, but Vitavon Racing has one (7075 on the aluminum parts, with (I believe) a slightly thicker/stiffer steel bar).


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Timmahh]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

I think it's "interesting", in a not-so-good way, that, when designing the Ryft, Axial had enough knowledge to design in a way to mount dual rear shocks, as well as a sway bar mount, but they did NOT have enough knowledge to design it in such a way for people to install both. It would be like buying a car, only to discover you have the options of upgrading to a high-power head unit, or to better speakers, but not both.

In being forced to pick one, or the other, I'd think going with a sway bar (just NOT the flimsy plastic pieces from Axial) is the better choice. I don't know if Treal, Vanquish, or anyone else, will be producing an aluminum sway bar, but Vitavon Racing has one (7075 on the aluminum parts, with (I believe) a slightly thicker/stiffer steel bar).


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

My thoughts as well.

I have a Vanquish Yeti XL Jr swaybar on the way. With a longer piece of spring steel, it should work great. Dl'd the bushing to 3d print for it. will get those done tomorrow problaby. Sway should be tomorrow or the next day and I should have the spring steel already, just need to cut to size.

Treal does have a sway avail. it looks pretty good. Had I seen it before I ordered the Vanquish, I would have bought it instead. 39.00 compared to 49 on the Vanquish. I also just ordered a Max8/2200kv and I am starting to double thing that. Maybe I can return both these things to Amain when the arrive as wrong items purchased, and use that fundage towards a Mamba X/HH combo or maybe a Tekin ROC setup.....

But the 2200 should be pretty decent even if its not Sensored. Had one in my 4x4 slash, and it was crazy fast, but would move slow without much if any cogging.

[wander]

I haven't received mine yet. I have seen reports that a simple zip-tie in the rear connecting body and frame does most of what sway bars do. I haven't tried it yet, I will in a few months when ready.

[Timmahh]

Got a few things for the Ryft today. New stock rear swing arms to add these swing arm plates to, to add strength to them.
Also had the 2 speed (didn't realize it comes with the servo horn assembly) a servo horn assembly (spare now), Yea racing servo adapter, and a Reefs Micro99 for shift duty.

Then I bought a set of used ProLine USA beadlocks with a set of Pitbull Rock Beast II tires, pretty much new. all 4 wheels in great shape, including hexes. Not sure what foams are in them atm.

Also picked up a set of Fast Eddy bearings for the Ryft and a set just for the Front Axle. Good to have some spares.




I'll be youboobing some assembly vids in a while.

[Timmahh]

So, what solution have people come up with for the shifting mechanism using a Reefs Micro99 servo for shift duty?

I bought the Yeah Racing pieces for the micro servo thinking it would fit, but they are standard size 25T splines, not the mini (for the Traxxas small servos).

And I bought the Axial shift adapter setup for one of the other rigs, and all 3 of its adpaters are for standard sized servo shaft, not Micros.

So before I through more good money after bad chasing the wrong solution, what has everyone here done?

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by Timmahh

So, what solution have people come up with for the shifting mechanism using a Reefs Micro99 servo for shift duty?

I bought the Yeah Racing pieces for the micro servo thinking it would fit, but they are standard size 25T splines, not the mini (for the Traxxas small servos).

And I bought the Axial shift adapter setup for one of the other rigs, and all 3 of its adpaters are for standard sized servo shaft, not Micros.

So before I through more good money after bad chasing the wrong solution, what has everyone here done?

If you scroll up to post #245, you will find my solution, which involves using the recently released Power Hobby 59MG micro servo. While the solution would also work with the Reef's 99 (they both share the same spline diameter, and), the 59MG was designed specifically as an SX107 replacement.

As for operating the 2-speed shift mechanism (on the Ryft, or the SCX10-III), Power Hobby is currently working on a production piece that will work with the 59MG (and, technically, the Reef's 99, although I don't believe the peace will be available for purchase separately...it will probably be included in future packaging of the 59MG).

If you look at the photos in the previously mentioned post, what you will see is the 3D printed prototype, of which they sent me two samples of two slightly different designs. The only difference between the two designs is that the 'oval' (where the shifter fits inside of) is slightly thicker on one design. The last time I spoke with Power Hobby's lead engineer, it had not yet been decided whether the production piece would utilize a two-piece design (what the prototype is), or whether it would be a one-piece design. I was actually planning on calling him today to discuss not very matter, as well as something else discovered during my testing of the prototype.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[NickelPlate]

I'm new to these rock bouncer/racer cars. I just got a new Ryft. I haven't checked the diffs yet but I've seen people filling their diffs with really heavy silicone oil. Beside lubrication I'm assuming they do this to stiffen them up a bit. Back in the day (in the 80s and 90s) we packed our diffs with heavy grease like Mobil 1 synthetic right out of a grease gun What's the difference?

Thanks,

NP