The rules one more time

[xzk7nr]

Since there still seems to be a problem with rules, like what are they, where are they and things along those lines we are going to have a sticky created to keep them. But before that I would like to get everyone on board.

What I did with this version is to incorporate everything into on set of rules. Since we run the same scoring system now for all classes it seemed stupid to have 2 sets of rules. So I added all the scale rules into the USRCCA rules. These are now the MiRCa Club rules.

Now before anyone starts in on what’s wrong with these they are same rules that we have been using. Now they are just all in one place. If you do have a problem or a suggestion to improve the rules there is going to be a procedure to do it. These rules are not set in stone, but they will not be easy to change. If you would like to see a change this is what you need to have happen:



First make sure you understand the rule. If you don’t understand a rules ask. Some one can try too explain it a different way so that it makes sense. We are all new to this so no one knows everything.
Don’t try too change things for selfish reasons. Think of what’s best for the group.
For most, this is a hobby. We don’t get paid to do this we pay to do it. So if you just want to stir things up don’t post it here. This is for serious problems and questions about the rules that will affect everyone.
If you have a problem with a rule, clearly state what’s the problem that you find in or with that rule. If need be use examples or scenario’s to illustrated your problem. Just don’t post “I don’t like this rule and it needs to be changed”. We need to act like adults so we don’t look like idiots on the site.
Propose a solution as well. Not offer a way to fix the rule accomplishes nothing. So in your post you also will need to explain your solution on how the rule should be changed and or give an example.
Other members can comment on your problem with a rule or offer other suggestion to. But keep it to constructive criticism. If someone posts problem with a rule and you think they are not reading it right, you can explain it them then try. But don’t talk down to them, especially if they are a newbie. Or if you have another suggestion to solve the problem, post that but not in a way that you flame the original poster. Calling people names does not get the problem solved and makes all us look bad.
For a rule to be considered to be changed 2 other members need to agree with the issue you are addressing.
Then we will put it to a vote. Either at a vote at a monthly meeting or we can try the polling options I have seen on other threads. But the polling thread doesn’t mean that anyone with a beef can just post one of these up. The only polls that will count will be one posted by the President at that time. Now if this doesn’t work then any rule chances will have to be done at the meeting of the group only.
Once the group has spoken the rule be either changed or left the way it was. So with this being said here are the rules. If you find something I missed somehting or if you have a question let us / me know.

[xzk7nr]

SECTION 1
Penalties
1.1 – General:
Reverse: 1 point
Rollover: 5 points
Gate Marker: 10 points
Boundary Marker: 10 points
Vehicle Touch: 10 points
1.2 - Back Up/ Reverse: (1 pt) point is given when a vehicle reverses course after making forward progress. Reversing is defined as at any time if the tires move the vehicle backward or spin in the reverse direction, whether intentional or not. Once a reverse penalty is given, no further reverse penalty can be given until the vehicle makes forward progress. No penalty is given if the backward movement is part of a penalized rollover. (See Reverse examples and explanations, sec. 7.1.)
• 1.2.1 – In the scaler class there is one free reverse per gate.
1.3 - Rollover: (5 pts) points are given when vehicles rollover, and cannot be corrected without touching. Vehicles that land back on their wheels are not penalized. No reverse penalties are given until vehicle is back on 4 wheels. A vehicle can only be pushed back on to its wheels from the side. Anything else is a Vehicle Touch.
1.4 - Vehicle Touch: (10 pts) All vehicle touches excluding “Rollovers” (See Rollover rule, sec 1.3), intentional or unintentional, are given an automatic 10 points. The judge then will stop time when either the driver calls for a vehicle touch or the judge calls a driver touch. The vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. Note: All gates are still “live” unless a gate has already been deemed “dead”.
• 1.4.1 - Vehicle Touches include but are not limited to: repairs, repositions, vehicle driving/falling into the driver.
• 1.4.2 - Time is stopped by the judge to allow for safe reposition of the vehicle only, but is not allowed to be used for driver review of the course or other advantages.
• 1.4.3 - Repairs: Repairs taking less than 1 minute may be completed on course. Repairs taking longer than 1 minute must be completed off course in the pit area. If repairs cannot be made within 30 minutes the driver is given a DNF minus progress points. If the repair is made in the allotted time the driver may return to the course. 1 minute will be subtracted from the time that is left on the course and the timer will continue once the vehicle makes forward progress.
1.5 - Gate Marker: (10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker. A gate marker will remain "live" for the entire duration of the attempt on the course. Once any gate marker has been touched or straddled, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker. Only when a gate penalty is assessed will that gate marker be deemed "dead". No further penalties will be assessed at this point for that gate marker. (See Gate Marker and Gate Clearing explanations, sec. 7.2 & sec. 7.3.)
1.6 - Boundary Marker: (10 pts each) Points are given when any part of the vehicle touches a boundary marker. Once any boundary marker has been touched or traversed the vehicle must then return to the course with out making forward progress. During this time no additional boundary marker penalties will be assigned until the vehicle is completely back on the course. While attempting to return onto the course all other penalties apply. A boundary marker will remain "live" for the entire duration of the attempt on the course. Course designer may modify the boundary marker rules as needed to reflect the intentions of the course design. Boundary markers are not required in the design of a course.
1.7 - Maximum Penalty Points:
• 1.7.1 - The maximum points per gate is 20. Once a driver has reached the maximum of 20-penalty points, they will be placed past that gate. No progress points are given for the gates not cleared. (20 pt maximum per gate is optional)
• 1.7.2 - The maximum points per course are 40. At that time the driver is given a DNF and the run is complete and the vehicle should be removed from the course.
1.8 - DNF (Did Not Finish): (40pts) are given anytime a driver cannot complete a course for any reason. (Timed-Out, Point-Out, Vehicle not Repairable, Went Home,…etc).
1.9 - DNS (Did Not Start): (50pts) are given anytime a driver cannot start a course for any reason. To start a course the vehicle must break the plane of the start gate. See sec 9.1.1 for scaler addendum.
1.10 - Progress bonus: (-1 progress point) will be awarded to drivers for each gate that is cleared by the vehicle during the attempt of a course. The entire vehicle must clear a gate, and not just break the plane of the gate, before progress bonus is awarded. These points are deducted from the total course score. A progress bonus will not be awarded for the start gate or the finish gate.

[xzk7nr]

SECTION 2
Vehicle Requirements
2.1 - General:
• 2.1.1 Vehicles are limited to 4-wheeled vehicles only. These 4 wheels can be the only source of propulsion for the vehicle.
• 2.1.2 - Bodied vehicles: Any support chassis allowed. Body must be 3” minimum height on sides. No less than 12.5” total length and full original width, and no less than 5” in the center. All bodies should resemble its original form (Jeep bodies look like a Jeep)
• 2.1.3 - Bodiless vehicles: Must be a self-supporting, structurally complete, rigid frame. The roof must be raised a minimum of 1” from the main chassis to resemble a cockpit. The frame sides must be an overall minimum of 1” tall (The cockpit & frame side are to be measured vertically from where the hood intersects the cab). Bodiless vehicles should resemble a 1:1 vehicle. NOTE: These bodiless rules are in a 1 year trial period to see how people respond to it and after that time these rules & requirements may be revised.
o 2.1.3.1 - Bodiless vehicles must have solid hood panel, solid roof panel and a minimum of 2solid side-panels. Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame. All body panels are to be separate pieces from the complete structural frame. Body panels must be solidly installed in a manner that is representative of a 1:1 vehicle. It is required that at least one point of the side-panel must reach to a span of 1” tall or more & at least one other point of the side-panel must reach to a span of 2.5” long or more. In the case of a Unibody vehicle (See sec. 2.1.3.2 for Unibody definition). The Unibody is considered to have all body panels needed without having to add separate body panels as long as the hood, roof & side panel areas meet all the general panel & side-panel size requirements above.
o 2.1.3.2 - Unibody – Constructed of a single piece of solid material (fiberglass, aluminum, plastic, etc) and must be self supporting. A Unibody cannot be fastened together in any nonpermanent way such as, nuts & bolts, pins, rivets, zip ties, etc. The roof must be raised from the main chassis to resemble a cockpit and should resemble a 1:1 vehicle.
o 2.1.3.3 - Super class minimum overall bodiless dimensions must be 12” overall length, 3” overall width, & 3.75” overall height.
o 2.1.3.4 - 2.2 class minimum overall bodiless dimensions must be 8” overall length, 3”overall width, & 3.75” overall height.
o 2.1.3.5 - Scale class minimum overall body specs Must run a complete body, bumpers, fenders, doors & tailgates must be intact. Some fender trimming is allowed but the basic shape must be retained. A shortened or lengthened body is allowable. A tubed bed must have a functional bed area capable of carrying a full-size spare laid flat (rear fender and tailgate rules to not apply to tubed beds).
• 2.1.4 - Winching down of the axles is allowed. The winch line must be attached within a 1/2" of the center of the axle, and by a single attachment point only.
• 2.1.5 - All suspension mounting points must be fixed mounted. This includes all link mounts, and shock mounts.
• 2.1.6 - There are no limitations on the amount of radio channels used on a vehicle.
• 2.1.7 - Active Suspension is allowed - A suspension that is interlinked (such as the 1:1 Scorpion, excluding the air bags used to raise and lower the vehicle) which by design moves part of the suspension in one direction when moved from another. This does not have any driver input.
• 2.1.8 - Forced Articulation is allowed – Forced articulation is the use of something such as hydraulics or electronics to literally force the suspension to move in a driver-controlled manner.
• 2.1.10 - If at any point during a run your vehicle falls out of these vehicle specs for any reason you will be required to take a touch penalty and correct the problem.

2.2 - Class 1 - Super Crawler Class:
• 2.2.1 - No limits on wheelbase, vehicle track width or height.
• 2.2.2 - No limits on tire type or size.
• 2.2.3 - No limits to steering configuration.
• 2.2.4 - Super class bodiless over all dimension of the complete chassis must be at least 12"overall length, 3" overall width, and 3.75" overall height
• 2.2.5 - If at any point during a run your vehicle falls out of these vehicle specs for any reason you will be required to take a touch penalty and correct the problem.

2.3 - Class 2 – Class 2.2: If a Class 2 vehicle violates any of the following requirements it must run in Class 1.
• 2.3.1 - Vehicle wheelbase is limited to a maximum of 12.5 inches. This is determined by measuring from centerline of front axle stub to centerline of rear axle stub, with all the wheels pointing straight ahead, with the vehicles suspension holding its own weight.
• 2.3.2 - Vehicle track width is limited to a maximum of 12.5 inches. This is determined by measuring the bottom of the outer most edge of the front and rear tires while the vehicle is sitting on level ground.
• 2.3.3 - Vehicle is limited to 2.2 inch wheels/rims or smaller at the bead surface. Wheels may be modified provided that the tire bead surface does not exceed 2.2 inches in diameter. Tires may be modified from other sized tires using only a pliable rubber but must not exceed a total uncompressed outer diameter of 6 inches.
• 2.3.4 - Vehicles are limited to 2-wheel steering only.
• 2.3.5 - 2.2 Crawler class bodiless overall dimension of the complete chassis must be at least 8"overall length, 3" overall width, and 3.75" overall height.
• 2.3.6 - If at any point during a run your vehicle falls out of these vehicle specs for any reason you will be required to take a touch penalty and correct the problem.

[xzk7nr]

2.4 - 1.9 & 2.2 Scale Classes - Modeled after typical street legal off-road vehicles
• 2.4.1 - Chassis must be OEM stock or custom ladder style that must extend over the axles. OEM suspension may be modified in any way. Construction material is not restricted.
• 2.4.2 – Tires are limited to only 1.9” or 2.2” tires. Tires are to follow these rules:
o 2.4.2.1 - 1.9” Tires - Tires are restricted to an overall outside diameter no greater than 4” and a width no greater than 1.75”. The tires must fit onto a standard 1.9” rim. Flywheels brand wheels and tires and 1/18 scale Nylint brand wheels and tires will be allowed.
o 2.4.2.2 - 2.2” Tires - Tires are restricted to any commercially available 2.2” tire or any tire cut down to fit a 2.2” wheel.
• 2.4.3 - No 4 wheel steer
• 2.4.4 - No axle “dig”
• 2.4.5 - Wheelbase and width is limited only by your body, but it must fit within the
body’s fender wells.
• 2.4.6 - Vehicles must be “run what ya brung.”
• 2.4.7 - Battery must be placed on or within the chassis.
• 2.4.8 - No wheels weights are aloud
• 2.4.9 - “Tuber” vehicles should be approved before a comp. A picture can be posted on rccrawler.com to determine the best placement of vehicle in its proper class. If not all will be addressed on site and will be allowed to run if not this class in the 2.2 class. Suggestion will be given to make the vehicle to fall into a class. All vehicles and drivers should adhere to the “spirit” of a street legal off-road vehicle.
• 2.4.10 – Scaler appearance points
Appearance points are listed below. -25 points is the max per rig.
o 2.4.10.1 -5 Points Deductions
- Hard body (rigid construction, usually abs or polystyrene: essentially any body that is not lexan)
- Custom pick up truck bed (i.e. building a full bed from styrene on your lexan or hard body.)
- Interior detail (must have at least driver & passenger seat, dashboard, & steering wheel)
o 2.4.10.2 -3 Points Deductions
- Large scale item (canoe or similar, item must be secured to rack with tie downs; no Velcro will be permitted.)
- True form bumpers installed front and rear on any rig.
- Leaf sprung suspension front and rear.
- Scale engine (i.e. Parma hemi)
- Tube style bed.
- Functional winch
- Lights
- Spare tire (must be functional)
o 2.4.10.2 -1 Point deductions A total of 5 are aloud per vehicle
- True form bumper installed front or rear
- Lights
- Driver figure (should be scale in size, in other words a 4 inch G.I. Joe figure in a 1/6 scale truck wouldn’t work)
- Leaf springs on only front or rear.
- Spare tire (non-functional)
- Non functional Winch
- Scale accessories (jerry cans, cooler, snatch straps, etc {multiples of a particular item will only score once: for example if you have 2 jerry cans you will only score for 1 jerry can})

[xzk7nr]

SECTION 3
General Event Rules & Event Management
3.1 - USRCCA recognizes that some events/clubs may need some local rules to accommodate there terrain and group size. Please post these exceptions in event notifications.
3.2 - Lowest total score wins.
3.3 - Scoring starts as the vehicle brakes the plane of the first gate of a course. Scoring stops when the Vehicle breaks the plane of the last gate of a course.
3.4 - No pre-running the courses. Drivers that pre-run a course will receive a DNS for that course.
3.5 - Starting order will be a random draw for the first course. The running order of subsequent courses will be
run with the first place driver driving first, and the next lowest driving next, and so on.
3.6 - Winching (other than that done to the suspension) or ramping of any kind is not allowed. Using any device (other than the tires) such as ramps or other objects to make progress in any direction is prohibited and will result in a DNF for that course.
3.7 - You cannot run the same vehicle in more than one class.
3.8 - The vehicle must run a course entirely with the same wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires it started that course with. Any changes to the vehicle (other than winching down the suspension or forced articulation) by the driver, another person, or any device, while on the course are prohibited.
3.9 - Vehicles cannot be exchanged for another vehicle during the competition.
3.10 - Drivers may make changes to wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires between course runs, as long as the vehicle remains within the specs for its class.
3.11 - No modification to the course is allowed by the driver. This includes, but not limited to, removing of rocks, stacking of rocks, purging a puddle of water, removing of vegetation, or other types of modifications.
3.12 - Any violations of event rules are subject to disqualification by judges and/or event organizers.
3.13 - Tie Scores:
• 3.13.1 - Timed: In the event of a tie score the competitor with the lowest total time on all courses will be chosen the winner over the other competitor(s) with the same score.
• 3.13.2 - Non Timed: In the event of a tie score the competitor with the lowest score on the final course run is considered the winner. If both competitors are also tied on the final course run then the second to the last course run will be used, and so on.
3.14 - Timed Event: There is a time limit on each course to be determined by the course builder, if the driver does not finish the course in the allotted time he will receive a 40pt. DNF penalty. Time starts when vehicle breaks the plane of the first gate of a course. Time stops when the vehicle breaks the plane of the last gate of a course. Methods of timing events may vary from club to club to meet the needs of that club. Make sure at that event drivers meeting drivers are informed of this.

SECTION 4
Recommended Course Design
4.1 - Gates with Tennis Ball halves
4.2 - Minimum of 20 inches apart for Super Class and a minimum of 16" apart for 2.2 Class
4.3 - (3-10) Gates per course
4.4 - (1-3) Courses per event
4.5 - Gates that are in close proximity to each other should be distinguished by color or markings.
4.6 - Optional:
• 4.6.1 - Bonus Gates: (up to –10 points per course) award negative points against the total score if the driver is successful in clearing these gates. Bonus Gates have special rules. No Reverse or Rollover penalties will be assessed while attempting a bonus gate. If a driver needs to Reposition or hits a Gate Marker a Bonus Gate will not be awarded. Although grouped with a course, bonus gates are not part of an actual course, but may be attempted after completing the course where the bonus gate is located (within the time limit of that course - if applicable).
• 4.6.2 - Alternate Gates: (up to -10 points per course) are a secondary set of gates that is part of the course. These gates will be very difficult. Normal Scoring rules apply with the exception of (1) Free Reverse/Back Up, this is used in order to abort your attempt and continue on the regular course.

SECTION 5
Judging
5.1 - Judges are responsible for watching vehicles while on the course, and to penalize drivers that commit penalties while competing.
5.2 - Judges should call out penalties when they occur.
5.3 - Judging should be done by at least 2 people per driver. One Judge to call out penalties and one Judge/Score Keeper, to record penalties, tally maximum penalties, keep time (if applicable), etc.

SECTION 6
Glossary of Terms
6.1 - Event/Competition: The coming together of drivers at a certain place and time to compete on single or multiple courses.
6.2 - Course: A course is the terrain that consists of a start gate, an end gate, and all the terrain in between them. Every course has an intended direction of travel, or “flow”, through the gates.
6.3 - Gate: A gate is used to mark an obstacle within a course and/or guide the vehicle through the course. A gate consists of 2 gate markers measuring no less then; 20" for the Super class, and 16” for the 2.2 class, from inside edge of one marker to the inside edge of the opposite marker. Every gate has an intended direction of travel, or “flow”, through the gate. This direction will either be marked, explained or implied by the course designers. All gate markers are “live” until touched.
6.4 - Wheelbase: is measured from axle nut center to axle nut center.
6.5 - Vehicle track width: is measured from the outer most edge of a tire to outer most edge of a tire.

[xzk7nr]

SECTION 7
Penalty Examples and Additional Penalty Definitions
7.1 - Back Up/ Reverse Examples:
• 7.1.1 - If the driver intentionally drives the vehicle in reverse, a reverse penalty will occur.
• 7.1.2 - If the vehicle stops on an incline and then rolls backwards a reverse penalty will occur.
• 7.1.3 - If a vehicle is stuck or stopped a reverse penalty will occur if the tires move forward at all and then move backward. Even if the vehicle does not move (this includes dig steering).
• 7.1.4 - If a vehicle is climbing an obstacle and is bounced backward by the terrain but the tires are still moving forward, no reverse penalty will occur.
• 7.1.5 - If a vehicle flips over backward, without the driver reversing, no reverse penalty will occur.
• 7.1.6 - Once a reverse penalty has been assessed, no further reverse penalty can be assessed until the vehicle makes forward progress.
o 7.1.6.1 - Example: Reversing, stopping, and then reversing again will only result in one reverse penalty.
o 7.1.6.2 - Example: When high-centered, Reverse, forward, and then reverse again to rock the truck back and forth will only result in one reverse penalty until forward progress is made.
• 7.1.7 - Reverse penalties are assigned at the Judge’s discretion if the actions performed by the vehicle/driver are not clearly defined by the rule.
7.2 - Clearing of a Gate:
• 7.2.1 - A gate is considered cleared when at least one front and one rear wheel passes between the two gate markers only in the intended direction of the gate.
• 7.2.2 - All gates must the cleared in the intended sequence of the course layout (gate 1, then gate 2, then gate 3, and so on).
• 7.2.3 - A vehicle may travel through a gate while it is in reverse and still clear that gate as long as it only travels though in the intended direction (reverse penalty(s) will be assessed as necessary).
• 7.2.4 - The first time through any un-cleared gate must be in the intended direction and in the correct sequence of the course layout until that gate is cleared.
• 7.2.5 - You cannot attempt any un-cleared gates out of sequence. If you intentionally enter an un-cleared gate out of sequence you will receive a DNF for that course.
o 7.2.5.1 - Example 1: If all four wheels of a vehicle pass between two gate markers that gate is considered a cleared gate with no penalties and a gate progress bonus is awarded.
o 7.2.5.2 - Example 2: If one wheel from the front axle and one wheel from the rear axle passes between two gate markers (vehicle straddles a gate), that gate is considered a cleared gate. This however will result in a Gate Marker penalty of 10 points and a gate progress bonus is awarded.
o 7.2.5.3 - Example 3: If one wheel only from the front axle or one wheel only from the rear axle passes between two gate markers (vehicle straddles a gate) that gate is not considered a cleared gate. This will result in a Gate Marker penalty of 10 points and no gate progress bonus is awarded.
7.3 - Gate Marker penalty:
• 7.3.1 - At any time a gate marker is touched by a vehicle or by a driver, a Gate Marker penalty is assessed.
• 7.3.2 - If a wheel touches any object outside of a gate as the other wheel from the same axel passes through a gate it is considered a straddle, a Gate Marker penalty is assessed.
• 7.3.3 - A driver can only continue with the course when a gate is cleared or 20 pts at that gate is accumulated.

SECTION 8
Scoring Sheets
8.1 – Scoring sheets: Will be on final version

SECTION 9
Addendums
9.1 – Scaler changes:
• 9.1.1 – The DNS score for comp 1 in the scaler division will be +120 points. This is due to the fact that we used the national points system and there is no point out for scalers. So the to make it fair the person with the highest point total was reduced to a 100 and all people that did not run in the first comp will get the 120 points for a DNS. From comp 2 on forward will be assessed the clubs 50 point DNS per course, or a 100 points for comps.

[binaryterror]

Just to get it right, in 2.2 comp we are following the USRRCA rules to a T correct? Well minus this rule:

1.7 - Maximum Penalty Points:
• 1.7.1 - The maximum points per gate is 20. Once a driver has reached the maximum of 20-penalty points, they will be placed past that gate. No progress points are given for the gates not cleared. (20 pt maximum per gate is optional)

[xzk7nr]

Just to get it right, in 2.2 comp we are following the USRRCA rules to a T correct? Well minus this rule:

1.7 - Maximum Penalty Points:
• 1.7.1 - The maximum points per gate is 20. Once a driver has reached the maximum of 20-penalty points, they will be placed past that gate. No progress points are given for the gates not cleared. (20 pt maximum per gate is optional)
well if we are going to follow the rules we are going to try and follow this as well. since this is something new and we just need start inforcing this but since but this still new to scoring and judging

[binaryterror]

It says "optional". I like how we are running it now...I would be fine either way. This rule isn't going to help anyone.

[twistedone]

RULE IN QUESTION
SECTION 9
Addendums
9.1 – Scaler changes:
[COLOR=white]• 9.1.1 – [FONT=Verdana]The DNS score for comp 1 in the scaler division will be +120 points. This is due to the fact that we used the national points system and there is no point out for scalers. So the to make it fair the person with the highest point total was reduced to a 100 and all people that did not run in the first comp will get the 120 points for a DNS. From comp 2 on forward will be assessed the clubs 50 point DNS per course, or a 100 points for comps.

MY DIS AGREEMENT
so the only people to be given 120 points are the people in comp 2 that dont seem right
POSSIBLE SOLUTION
these rules should go back to comp 1 and all scores be affected any one else agree?

[xzk7nr]

It says "optional". I like how we are running it now...I would be fine either way. This rule isn't going to help anyone.
I agree either way. But to play devil's advocate, if we go back to comp 1 if we had inforecd the 20 point rule, how many less people would of DNF course 2?

So its something we should talk about.

[xzk7nr]

RULE IN QUESTION
SECTION 9
Addendums
9.1 – Scaler changes:
[color=white]• 9.1.1 – [font=Verdana]The DNS score for comp 1 in the scaler division will be +120 points. This is due to the fact that we used the national points system and there is no point out for scalers. So the to make it fair the person with the highest point total was reduced to a 100 and all people that did not run in the first comp will get the 120 points for a DNS. From comp 2 on forward will be assessed the clubs 50 point DNS per course, or a 100 points for comps.

MY DIS AGREEMENT
so the only people to be given 120 points are the people in comp 2 that dont seem right
POSSIBLE SOLUTION
these rules should go back to comp 1 and all scores be affected any one else agree?
I was working on these rules while trying to work this out with you and forgot to update it. It should have said that the people would have been given a point total 182.

So too your First ,”so the only people to be given 120 points are the people in comp 2 that dont seem right”. Too answer it, anyone who starts in comp 3 will be assigned the same point value as what you were assigned for comp 1. Then for comp 2 they will get 100. So their score coming into comp 3 will be 282 points. If they start at comp 4 that person would get 382 points. And so on.

IF our scaler class grows and it get big enough we can go to a more of a national way of running scalers. But we will cross that bridge when we get there.

Now if you came to the meeting we did discuss changing the points to match. But due to the way things were done it would be more of a head ache. So the people at the meeting decided to leave them they are for comp one.

So we can discuss what’s a fair value.

So basically it comes down to what is the penalty for not starting comp one. So to be fair and keep with the scoring that we used for the first comp, what is the DNS point value? Now this goes back to the original problem with the scale rules, besides being vague and incomplete, there is no DNS point value. Now after looking at other clubs for the most part they don’t have a point value for DNS since they do the opposite of what we do. They use a point system like NASCAR, where First place gets the highest point total and they get lower from there. Now some do have a DNS point total, those are the highest score per round from any where +20 too +50 points for each round.

Since we keep score by the lowest score wins, there wasn’t DNS point value, and we did not point anyone out what should we do? And since Daniel held his own at the second comp his score from the first comp of 142 points should stand and that should be the starting point. So its going to have to be more than that.

So we went with a twist of the DNF rule. So for the first comp only eveyone who did not run in it will be given 182 points. Its the higest point total for that comp +20 points for each round. Daniels total runs came to 142 then +20 for each run comes to 182.

This is just another example on how incosistant the scaler rules are and why each clubs is different. Another set of rules I found were the highest point total per round +20 points. So in round 1 Al had 80 points and in the second round Daniel had 82. So thats 162+40 that would be 202 points for the comp 1 as a DNS. One also had it as 50 points add to the highest score per round so that would of been 162+ 100 so thats 262.

Now if you look at the way scoring works in 2.2 and super the last comp. There is a 49 point difference between the higest total for both some one who finished both course’s and a DNS. Another example is Comp 1 Super, my rig did not start because of a problem. Gary has an overall score of -3. So after the first comp I’m in the hole are aready by 103 points.

So thats why from comp 2 on out we are going to be following the same rules as the other 2 classes. I hope this clears things up.

[twistedone]

this needs more discussion!!! asap
so what is the score I will receive for comp one 120 or 182 cause in your "NEW" rules it states 120 so is that posted wrong also? :oops:

if thats the case go back you have the sheets give all over 100 a 100 and move on from there problem solved for the whole series and all drivers

or will we add a addendum to the addendum to fix the vague rules of scale for our club :shock::shock::shock:

[xzk7nr]

this needs more discussion!!! asap
so what is the score I will receive for comp one 120 or 182 cause in your "NEW" rules it states 120 so is that posted wrong also? :oops:

if thats the case go back you have the sheets give all over 100 a 100 and move on from there problem solved for the whole series and all drivers

or will we add a addendum to the addendum to fix the vague rules of scale for our club :shock::shock::shock:
i give up Bob what till it take to make happy. how can we change things?

[binaryterror]

I agree either way. But to play devil's advocate, if we go back to comp 1 if we had inforecd the 20 point rule, how many less people would of DNF course 2?

So its something we should talk about.

My point was simple Bob, just stating how we follow all 2.2 comp rules to a T. We do leave the optional out. I also think with the headache of the "past" we stick to running without the option.

Again my post was just a clarification statement, we do not run the 20pt max gate rule, we do 10/gate or a hit gate.

Good luck on scale guys...

[twistedone]

i give up Bob what till it take to make happy. how can we change things?Don't give up its growing pains thats all :shock:
:idea:But by going back thru scale from comp 1 and using current rules who is going to benefit and who will not it actually brings all of us closer for more competition in the end :idea:

oh yea I will never be happy dont even try i still luv ya man!!!"thumbsup" J/K"thumbsup" lol"thumbsup"

[xzk7nr]

Don't give up its growing pains thats all :shock:
:idea:But by going back thru scale from comp 1 and using current rules who is going to benefit and who will not it actually brings all of us closer for more competition in the end :idea:

oh yea I will never be happy dont even try i still luv ya man!!!"thumbsup" J/K"thumbsup" lol"thumbsup"
ok then Ill leave it at 182 points and save me the work on changing things. good glad we can clear it up.