Team RCC, Mnster Berg build [Archive] - RCCrawler.com Bulletin Board

Mnster

07-08-2008, 02:33 AM

I jumped on the bandwagon and bought one of these. My old TLT rig was starting to show it's age. There are several reasons I went to these axles. No torque twist, low COG, high clearance, and bomb proof. The price may seem killer at first but once you sum up the fact that there isn't any plastic to snap or costly upgrades to buy it's totally worth it.

I'm making a TCS style stick chassis. The chassis design is perfect for the rip rap we have in the midwest. High clearance, very perdictable and flexy. I'm not adapting a TCS product but creating one from scratch. This will allow me to get the truck exactly as I want.

Plans:
55t lathe motors
Sidewinder ESC
Electric dig switches
5955tg
Custom Eritex beadlocks
Losi Rock Carvers
Nomadio react
Custom

Parts are coming in daily...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06707.jpg

Did the basic clock to get motor clearance.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06721.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06726.jpg

Rig needs to be complete by August 7th for a MN comp.

SMR4RUNNER

07-08-2008, 03:30 PM

Another team member on board"thumbsup"
Once you go Berg you may never go back!!:lol:

wrightcs77

07-08-2008, 07:37 PM

Got lemonade?

Will be interesting to see your rig when you come to MN. Hoping to get a closer look at it then. I have a stick chassis sitting around that I am not using.

swell searcher

07-08-2008, 07:54 PM

another happy team member!!!

Brandon

07-08-2008, 08:22 PM

another happy team member!!!

Yup join the Team! Wait... :ror:

Your going to love it man, it doesn't get any better "thumbsup"

MTHead

07-08-2008, 08:52 PM

Sweet!! "thumbsup"

Can't wait to see it in stick form...

Mnster

07-10-2008, 02:21 AM

Locked the rear out, yes I made them myself on my mill similar to nluv's design.

NO I WILL NOT MAKE YOU SOME.:lol:

Brandon

07-10-2008, 07:18 AM

Lock outs look awesome! I cant take any credit for that design though, that was the creator who came up with that idea ;-)

SVEN

07-10-2008, 10:05 AM

Locked the rear out, yes I made them myself on my mill similar to nluv's design.

NO I WILL NOT MAKE YOU SOME.:lol:

Could you tell us the ID and OD for the tubing you used? And where you got it would be great. I would like to make my own. Thanks

Stormin2u

07-10-2008, 10:05 AM

The stick chassis design is the most appealing to me for these axles. It will be interesting watching your build.

Mnster

07-11-2008, 02:49 AM

Could you tell us the ID and OD for the tubing you used? And where you got it would be great. I would like to make my own. Thanks

I used 3/4 rod and cut it down and drilled it out. It's pretty easy to find the measurements yourself with a caliper. Not going to disclose any info which may harm that certain vendor.

Didn't get much stuff made up today. Started on the Heim joint mounts. Need to head to the hardware store and pickup a few drills and taps to mount them up.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06775.jpg

The heims will thread into this piece once I get it drilled and tapped.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06786.jpg

Then the whole unit will be bolted here. One of the original holes and a hole drilled through the case will hold it firmly. I want the back bone nearly resting on the motors to keep the COG in check.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06779.jpg

Went with some 1/4 steel heims. I've used the Delrin versions before on my clod, just wasn't satisfied with the strength. So although these maybe heavier they won't snap off. The small size is also a major plus. Back bone is .438 diameter hollow tube.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06784.jpg

CedRc hooked me up with some used axial links I might just use them rather then fab some it would probably go good with the Team RCC green theme. It's going to have good center clearance, remember I still have to bolt the tires up. The back bone is super light and being that there are only 2 shocks COG will still be where it should be.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06790.jpg

swell searcher

07-11-2008, 05:08 AM

nice job!!! so you'll have mine ready to ship next week... LOL

Ced RC

07-12-2008, 08:01 AM

Awesome build man "thumbsup" I can't wait to see this rig in action, these Berg axles got me thinkin...... there's just so many advantages over shaft driven rigs.

Halfj-7

07-17-2008, 11:45 AM

I was just thinking awhile back, 'bout one of these days someone is gonna build a 2.2 stick, like a mini clod thingy, that really works, and kicks ass all over the place...then I thought "Ben will probably do it first".
Looks like I was right on the money.

"thumbsup""thumbsup""thumbsup""thumbsup"

sportpak

07-18-2008, 05:01 PM

Looking pretty good man. I myself am working on a stick setup with Berg axles. I haven't started a thread yet.

I personally had some trouble finding a good position for the servo. I ended up mounting it up on it's face. I'd like to see what you come up with. I'm still buttoning things up. Drop me a PM if you want to chat specifics.

BEn

smm_cbf

07-18-2008, 06:42 PM

sweet build, axles on the chassis look great"thumbsup"

Mnster

07-18-2008, 11:29 PM

Thanks for the comments there guys.

Here is is how the rig sits at this moment.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06820.jpg

Clearance seems just right not to tall not to low. Bone sits right at the top edge of the wheels. 3 3/4 clearance with mashers. Already ordered up a set of bent links for the front to match the rear. Looks goofy with the straight links.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06816.jpg

It's very hard with the limited room to find places for everything while not at the sacrifice of a high center of gravity. I feel BTA would be a hugely welcomed thing here in the midwest but if I have to raise the servo way the heck up maybe not. I'm having issues with servo placement do to the clocked axles, motor seems smack dab right in the way. I've been brain storming for several hours on placement of different parts of the truck. It's really just a game of rob peter pay paul, I've got so much mildly heavy stuff with really no where to keep it all properly low. If I put the servo low then I have it hanging out the front. If I put the servo high then the shocks and other gear has to be high as well. It might get down to weighing parts and determining where they go. I want this thing to climb like no other while still being at home on rip rap.

I have a bunch of things ordered and am currently sort of stalled for parts.

Custom 6 spoke Eritex beadlocks - Need for mock up and steering clearance.

25 amp snap switches - Needed for building up the dig unit.

Batteries - Small 1500mah lipos coming from china gonna be a while.

Body - can't decide?

Tires - aiming for Rock Carvers but if they are not availble by august I'll go with panthers.

dieselfuel

07-19-2008, 12:13 AM

looks good! i cant wait to get a set of bergs someday.

oberon crawler

07-19-2008, 02:33 AM

Looks really good man :)
I have a full berg kit on the way to Australia and i also plan on doing my own stick chassis,
I'm thinking of using the aluminium servo mounts that are made for 450 size heli tail servos as the shockarms, it will save drilling more holes in the bone.
How strong does the bone need to be? (tube wall thickness i mean) I guess if it's too thin it could bend!
I have alot to learn as my only experience with rc crawlers is a scorpion i built a few months ago but i have lots of ideas for my new berg/stick to compete with the tubed dig equipt axials that flood the 2.2 comps over here in OZ,
These bergs will be everywhere soon, there are ppl running clods in 2.2 here but they have a few probs with clearance under the pumpkin!
I look forward to the rest of your build :)

Mnster

07-26-2008, 03:41 AM

Well my tube is 11mm OD, 2mm wall, 7.55mm ID seems ridged as it's pretty short.

Anyways for the rest of you here is some progress.

Made the easiest dig unit I've ever made seriously. Two long screws two switches and a mini servo assemble, that was it.:shock: These are the heavy duty 25 amp switches from Mcmaster should hold up good. Servo is a $4 Tower pro, they have proven reliable for me I use one of these to turn Jim's steering wheel on the Tacoma Jero never had a issue. I have a grand total of $12 into the unit.:lol:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06842.jpg

After spending so little time on the dig itself, I had plenty of time to work on the mount.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06850.jpg

Still slug low in the chassis and out of the way. Don't worry I'll trim that cantilever narrower when I get a chance. I'm thinking it will have to pop through the hood, we'll see.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06851.jpg

Mounted the front servo some what. I still have to finish the mount on the other side of the case. The idea here was to have a good clean approach angle. The only way to acheive it with clocked axles was to flip the servo up like that.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06855.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06856.jpg

Decided to keep the straight links out front as it allows me to mount the electronics lower. Also changed up the axle mounting points to reduce the axle sway. It now has like near zero axle sway which was what I was shooting for. 3C Lipo is going on the right rear tube so everything else is going on the front to keep the truck balanced.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06852.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06854.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06858.jpg

swell searcher

07-26-2008, 03:49 AM

that's freaking nice... "thumbsup""thumbsup"

ROCKEDUP RICKY

07-26-2008, 07:05 PM

Do you have a link for those swiches, That work out sweet. good job "thumbsup"
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC06842.jpg

Mic

07-26-2008, 07:30 PM

Are those only 2 pole switches? You lose the break effect of the locking of the armature if that is the case.

Mnster

07-26-2008, 09:41 PM

3 pole SPDT switches just like what everybody else is using only with higher rated contacts.

Part number
7510T12

Mcmaster.com

Mic

07-26-2008, 10:44 PM

Nice, thanks.

Stormin2u

07-27-2008, 06:29 AM

That's coming together really nice Mnster looking forward to seeing the next progress photos.

TEDROCKZ

07-27-2008, 06:47 AM

Ricky, I believe these are the switches here (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/26-1840)

Mnster

07-27-2008, 07:34 AM

Different switch going by the image but I'm sure it would work.

oberon crawler

08-01-2008, 05:30 PM

Great looking build you have there,
Roughly how much articulation is good for these stick chassis? looking at the length of your shock and the lenght of the shock arm i'd guess you'd have about 60 degrees or so?? how much is enough?
also I was thinking of making mine a "droop" stick (can't think of a better word) I mean running internal springs above the piston so that when the rig is level both shocks are retracted and therefore the shock arms would normally be lower for a lower CG??
Does this make sense or would that not work very well?

Mnster

08-02-2008, 12:45 AM

Yeah roughly 60 degrees. I wouldn't recommend much more then that. If you have more then 70 a lot of times the truck will flex over and roll. Or possibly drop tires into holes that with less flex it could have lifted over. Everybody has a preferance on flex measurement it really depends what rock you crawl.

As for the droop setup? I played the idea around in my head when I was starting my build and turned away from it.

Heres why
1. Super stiff springs are required for most stick builds. I can't imagine finding a spring that compresses well enough to allow near full travel.

2. This one is more complex to explain... If your cantilevers are at a 90 degree angle to your shocks. At full droop the axle will drop and the shock will move closer to the back bone as it rotates with the axle. As a result of leverage the truck will be stiff to start flexing. But, once at full flex the truck will be soft. This I imagine would cause the truck to not return to normal no flex position easily. The truck would flex and then stay flexed as the leverage would cause it to be soft at full flex and stiff at rest. Basicly it's not possible to run a proper stick droop setup unless at full droop or flex the canti is at a 90 degree angle to the shock as this would allow the shock to pull harder at full flex then at rest. To do so the canti would be under the back bone. Which I don't belive is possible space wise or worth the loss of ground clearance.

oberon crawler

08-02-2008, 02:53 AM

I understand what you mean with the shock cantilever angle at full droop giving you poor leverage against the shock and I hadn't considered that side of it so thanks for the heads up.

So with your compression system have you considered using the short fuel tubing idea on the shock rod in combination with light springs to give you the "dual rate" effect of soft articulation in the smaller articulation angles and hard response once you start compressing the fuel tube??

Mnster

08-02-2008, 08:54 PM

oberon crawler

08-03-2008, 01:31 AM

With the cantilever angle I'm running you already get a progressive effect. I've never had issues with it on my other sticks. Though I've never experimented with it either. A large amount of the problem has to do with axle sway. I've seen several stick builds with poorly setup links that would in my eyes cause large amounts of axle sway. I have worked to minimize the axle sway and as a result the truck seems to get less stuck with tires in the air. Those spacers people use to space the links away from the backbone for motor clearance increase or amplify the axle sway. Currently how my rig is setup I get near zero axle sway when flexing, the axles rotate up and down rather then side to side.

I'm not yet understanding what you mean with the axle sway thing.

Is it where one wheel moves forward and the other moves back as it articulates? I can see how this would happen more as you move the links wider at the BB.
Or
Do you mean the amount the whole axle moves to the left or right from directly under the back bone as you articulate? I think that one is affected by how far the pivot in the heim joint is placed above the centre of the axle. to reduce this movement i would have to make the backbone as low as possible (for Zero effect i'd have to have it at the axle centre and i'd have low clearance)

TheHeadHunter

08-03-2008, 04:50 AM

Wow what a build ,you are the master Mnster.."thumbsup"

One thing I cant understand is the poor servo mounting options on these axles and how everyone has to be making their own ,I was surprised to see even zip ties used to hold the entire thing by some guys ... how do you feel about this? To be honest its the main thing holding me back on buying these axles:-(...If I'm wrong here please let me know;-)

oberon crawler

08-04-2008, 07:56 PM

binaryterror

08-04-2008, 08:24 PM

Does the servo mounting problem only arise from clocking the axles?
Everyone is clocking? why didn't berg make them that way in the first place? would it be ok to leave them unclocked and fit a thin skid plate between the axle and the motor so rock couldn't get in between? or sould that still be no good??

You can clock or leave stock and not have servo mounting issues. In this build to get the shock mounted for the dampening looks like it would hinder the travel mounted in the normal berg method. Also the stock mount uses like C clamps which lower clearance...though slight...we all know these good builder/drivers look for all the best options.

constantmotion

08-06-2008, 04:53 AM

Here's the switches

McMaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/114/863) Part # 7510T12

run2jeepn

08-06-2008, 05:12 AM

Do these switches just kill the motor? Or do they short it out has well to give some drag on the motor as well. Like the Radio Shacks do?

Stormin2u

08-06-2008, 05:47 AM

Hey Ben are we going to see this rig at the Battle at the Boarder?

Mnster

08-06-2008, 11:56 AM

:lol: It's going to be tight, very tight but it will be there one way or another.

3 days to:

Make a battery mount

Finish the servo mount

Make a rear cantilever

Find the rear shock

Make steering links

Mount my tires once the wheels arrive

Paint and mount the body

Mount all the electronics

Wire all the electronics

Make sure it performs some what good

setup the weight bias

The shake down run will probably be a hour before the comp.

wrcfan29

08-06-2008, 12:29 PM

Stormin2u

08-06-2008, 02:15 PM

Almost feel guilty for asking because of the time it took type that. :shock: But I'm glad the answer is yes :ror:"thumbsup"

constantmotion

08-07-2008, 09:37 AM

Do these switches just kill the motor? Or do they short it out has well to give some drag on the motor as well. Like the Radio Shacks do?

As far as I know.....all the switches work the same, it's just how you wire them up.

Mnster

08-09-2008, 08:03 PM

Mine short the motor out for drag.

I have it going worked all night on it last night. Here are some hotel pics.

Ended up starting back at square one with the canitlevers and servo mount.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC07038.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC07039.jpg

Eritex inc custom made.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC07042.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC07036.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC07035.jpg

All ready for the comp tomorrow"thumbsup"
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC07033.jpg

oberon crawler

08-09-2008, 08:29 PM

Looking really good, i love the cant's seems like you have it all sorted now!!

freetimecrawler

08-09-2008, 09:22 PM

Trucks looking great "thumbsup"
Looking forward to competing against it tomorrow Ben.
Should be a great day of competition :lol:

swell searcher

08-09-2008, 09:28 PM

nice job with the servo mount... is that just aluminum L bracket? any shots from the back side, trying to figure out how you got it mounted?

Stormin2u

08-10-2008, 05:45 AM

That's a mighty fine build the steering servo mounting is awesome. The stick chassis seems like a really good option for the shaftless trucks.

run2jeepn

10-16-2008, 10:56 PM

As far as I know.....all the switches work the same, it's just how you wire them up.

I asked because I only saw two post per switch rather then the 3 like the radio Shaft ones. Is there a 3rd post hidding on the bottom?

constantmotion

10-17-2008, 04:40 AM

I asked because I only saw two post per switch rather then the 3 like the radio Shaft ones. Is there a 3rd post hidding on the bottom?

Harley used some like these on his build....3 posts....the 3rd one is on the bottom
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/jtbusa/OCM/JU017515.jpg

bullet1231

10-17-2008, 07:24 AM

wow, build like a champ, looking good on that steering mount and placement.

Mnster

02-12-2009, 12:41 AM

This truck has been working great for me. I'll never go back to a shafty.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC07437.jpg

I've been working on redesigning the steering a bit as I seem to snag on most everything. Going for a hi steer setup as I have to much clutter on my axles for a effective BTA. I plan to bend the link back as well to keep the link riding over the axle. I might just go with a plate type link we'll see as it's still in the mock up phases.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08607.jpg

Machined some levers that clip firmly like a wrench to the top of the knuckles. I pushed them back towards the wheels for a better ackerman and clearance. I still have to cut the old arms off.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08606.jpg

Rocksolo

02-12-2009, 06:19 AM

Nice n Clean

I am a stick fan; I'm just not techy enough to build one yet. Taking notes though.
Curious to see the steering done.

your rig looks killer, PROPS!"thumbsup"

Mnster

02-13-2009, 11:36 PM

Finished the steering off today. I like it better already servo is a hair lower then before and back aways which will aid in protection. Before the servo was getting chewed up on rollovers. I also gained much more approach angle, better steering angle and ground clearance.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08622.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08625.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08638.jpg

Machined away some of the extra material on the tubes to gain clearance.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08630.jpg

JIA's Dad

02-14-2009, 01:17 AM

A really nice build. Clean and I really like the steering setup."thumbsup"

Mnster

02-18-2009, 11:11 PM

Thanks,

Added some skids today this should help the axles glide over rocks rather than aluminum which seems to scour deep and get snagged, this plastic should easily shed material and keep the truck moving.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08657.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08659.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC08647.jpg

Mnster

01-19-2010, 02:12 AM

Destroyed my Eritex Delrin wheels. The hex areas just couldn't take the insane grip of the busted concrete that I crawl on. Falling from 5 feet and landing on a concrete floor at the Hobbyexpo didn't help either. Aluminum was necessary this time around so I ordered new wheels and tires for the 2010 season."thumbsup"

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC00002.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC09987.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/silverdude/DSC09994.jpg