A few Rules Questions

[DwaneO]

Had a few questions from our first comp .
Example: If your approaching a gate and you hit one of the markers , then in an attempt to go through the gate you hit the other marker. What would the penalty be and would you get a progress point for that gate ?

1 more , if two of your side wheels pass through a gate but the other two pass OVER the top of the marker , but dont touch it . Is this a gate penalty ?


Thanks for your help
Dwane

[slowrockr]

2 gate penalty and as long as one tire from each axle clears through the gate and the 2 gates didn't point you out already than yes progress is awarded.

[DwaneO]

BUMP , 1 more question in first post.

[Grizzly4x4]

1 more , if two of your side wheels pass through a gate but the other two pass OVER the top of the marker , but dont touch it . Is this a gate penalty ?

If a tire or axle passes over a gate marker while the tire from the same axle is passing through the gate, there is no gate penalty.

[JOHN SKINNY]

If a tire or axle passes over a gate marker while the tire from the same axle is passing through the gate, there is no gate penalty.

That sounds like a straddle to me. Is that in the new '09 rules. Please clarify. Thank you

[DwaneO]

So , is it a straddle or no penalty ?

Thanks

[JPH Racing]

The only way there's no penalty, is if all 4 tires go between the gates.

If a tire hits a gate, it's 10 points.

If a tire straddles the gate, it's 10 points.

If the driver hits both gates, it's 20 points.

Progress is always given once the gate is cleared, even if penalty points are awarded.

[renoirbud]

A straddle is 10 points. If the two tires that go out side of the line between the gates are in the air (like a jump or a bicycle move) then you get progress and no penalties.

[Fishmaxx]

If a tire or axle passes over a gate marker while the tire from the same axle is passing through the gate, there is no gate penalty.


This is clearly a mistake or typo on Griz's part

[DwaneO]

OK , the tires were in the air , didnt touch the gate , but clearly outside the marker. SO no penalty and a progress point is awarded.

Thanks a lot guys

Dwane

[Fishmaxx]

OK , the tires were in the air , didnt touch the gate , but clearly outside the marker. SO no penalty and a progress point is awarded.


What are describing is a TIRE FLOAT. Floating a tire over the gate itself is not a penelty, and can be recovered from by reversing, digging or turning the tire back between the gate marker.

1.5 - Gate Marker: (10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels
do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker.

Eventually you must get ALL 4 tire between the gate marker or its a penelty"thumbsup"

[Robbob]

What are describing is a TIRE FLOAT. Floating a tire over the gate itself is not a penelty, and can be recovered from by reversing, digging or turning the tire back between the gate marker.

1.5 - Gate Marker: (10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels
do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker.

Eventually you must get ALL 4 tire between the gate marker or its a penelty"thumbsup"

Just to clear it in my head ....



rig approachs from the right side of the gate, rig turns right left front wheel hits the gate then clears both markers. now your digging to make the right hand turn and the right rear wheel touchs the opposite gate on the pivot ......

penalty is 20?


thanks

[Fishmaxx]

Just to clear it in my head ....



rig approachs from the right side of the gate, rig turns right left front wheel hits the gate then clears both markers. now your digging to make the right hand turn and the right rear wheel touchs the opposite gate on the pivot ......

penalty is 20?


thanks

If you hit 2 LIVE gates its 20 pts

[DwaneO]

Thanks Fishmax for clearing this up for me.

Dwane

[JPH Racing]

>>>What are describing is a TIRE FLOAT. Floating a tire over the gate itself is not a penelty, and can be recovered from by reversing, digging or turning the tire back between the gate marker.<<<

Not sure about this one? As explained to me, think of the gatemarker as a pole, if a driver comes up to the gate and drives a tire over the marker it's a gate penalty. Even if the tire passes over the marker in the air. It's an attempt at clearing the gate and the tire did not proceed between the gates.

The only time this would not be a penalty, is a sidehill gate. where the sidewall of the tire and rim pass over the marker.

Maybe Jason could explain it better? He always makes the rules seem so clear!

[Fishmaxx]

As explained to me, think of the gatemarker as a pole, if a driver comes up to the gate and drives a tire over the marker it's a gate penalty.

The pole reference is "Vertical Plane" crap, and that was taken out out the Rules a loooong time ago.

1.5 - Gate Marker: (10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels
do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker.

Its a simple rule drive 4 tires through and don't touch the gate.

You can lean over, float, or fly over a gate if you want, as long as you get A 4 tires between the gate at some point.


Example: You are going into a down hill section you lose control of you truck. It tumbles down the hill .....flys over the gate misses one or more gate marker....lands on its wheels....your then able to drive cleanly through the gate.

You would call that a penelty?

[JPH Racing]

I guess that's the probelm when you get some info from old schoolers ... It's not up-to-date! I'm trying to learn here, as much as anyone, that's why I ask questions. And, I do appriciate the answers.

Learned something new today in fact! Thanks Fishmaxx.

7.3.2 - If a wheel touches any object outside of a gate as the other wheel from the same axel passes through a gate it is considered a straddle, a Gate Marker penalty is assessed.

[DwaneO]

The pole reference is "Vertical Plane" crap, and that was taken out out the Rules a loooong time ago.

1.5 - Gate Marker: (10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels
do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker.

Its a simple rule drive 4 tires through and don't touch the gate.

You can lean over, float, or fly over a gate if you want, as long as you get A 4 tires between the gate at some point.


Example: You are going into a down hill section you lose control of you truck. It tumbles down the hill .....flys over the gate misses one or more gate marker....lands on its wheels....your then able to drive cleanly through the gate.

You would call that a penelty?

This is precisley what happened in our situation , BUT he is already on the otherside of the gate.
Can he back through the gate then procede through it again to clear it cleanly?

[Fishmaxx]

This is precisley what happened in our situation , BUT he is already on the otherside of the gate.
Can he back through the gate then procede through it again to clear it cleanly?

Dosn't sound like you got a gate foul, BUT 7.2.4 may get you:shock:

7.2.4 - The first time through any un-cleared gate must be in the intended direction and in the correct
sequence of the course layout until that gate is cleared.

[NaZ-T]

Hummm

At Nats this last year I saw on course 3 there was a gate that people were basically jumping and landing beyond the gate. It was obvious that the rig was jumping right over the gate (half and half) it was considered cleared sense two tires had passed through the plane of the gate. I don't recall anyone at all (even the big wigs and sponsored drivers) ever bringing it up. Now I realize this could just be the way the judges chose to score that gate, after all the Judge has the final say.
I personally allow people to "float" when I judge. I just think it's an easier way to judge and I want my job to be as easy as possible.

[whoodie]

Hummm

At Nats this last year I saw on course 3 there was a gate that people were basically jumping and landing beyond the gate. It was obvious that the rig was jumping right over the gate (half and half) it was considered cleared sense two tires had passed through the plane of the gate. I don't recall anyone at all (even the big wigs and sponsored drivers) ever bringing it up. Now I realize this could just be the way the judges chose to score that gate, after all the Judge has the final say.
I personally allow people to "float" when I judge. I just think it's an easier way to judge and I want my job to be as easy as possible.

I remember that gate. I recall Jason (I think it was him) discussing it at the course walk through. As long as you made a "reasonable attempt" to clear the gate with all 4 tires within the gate markers, you were not given a gate penalty. In reality, just as Naz-T said, many were doing a half and half jump through the gate. I believe that this gate was given an exception, and as far as I can tell, all competitors were judged fairly on that gate.

[swell searcher]

Now I realize this could just be the way the judges chose to score that gate, after all the Judge has the final say.
I personally allow people to "float" when I judge. I just think it's an easier way to judge and I want my job to be as easy as possible.

I remember that gate. I recall Jason (I think it was him) discussing it at the course walk through. As long as you made a "reasonable attempt" to clear the gate with all 4 tires within the gate markers, you were not given a gate penalty. In reality, just as Naz-T said, many were doing a half and half jump through the gate. I believe that this gate was given an exception, and as far as I can tell, all competitors were judged fairly on that gate.

I didn't judge that course but I do believe that Jason said a "reasonable attempt" was needed to be bad but it was up the judges to make the final call. And the call was consistent through out the day.

I allow the "floating tire" method when a "reasonable attempt" is made to clear the gate. I call a straddle/penalty is when the both tires on the of the same axles are in contact with the ground/rock.

[ripper7777777]

The pole reference is "Vertical Plane" crap, and that was taken out out the Rules a loooong time ago.

1.5 - Gate Marker: (10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels
do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker.

Its a simple rule drive 4 tires through and don't touch the gate.

You can lean over, float, or fly over a gate if you want, as long as you get A 4 tires between the gate at some point.


Example: You are going into a down hill section you lose control of you truck. It tumbles down the hill .....flys over the gate misses one or more gate marker....lands on its wheels....your then able to drive cleanly through the gate.

You would call that a penelty?

Dosn't sound like you got a gate foul, BUT 7.2.4 may get you:shock:

7.2.4 - The first time through any un-cleared gate must be in the intended direction and in the correct
sequence of the course layout until that gate is cleared.



Ok I got one on the same note, You cartwheel through the gate, all 4 wheels go through but completely uncontrolled and by luck. Anotherwords do the wheels need to be grounded through the gate.


Than you bounce after the gate fly over the remaining two gates land either on your wheels or take a rollover, so the proper thing is to drive around the uncleared gates back up the hill and finish the course.