Axle grease experiments... Temps

[RcBro]

I got everything working out on my losi except the axle heat issues. I opened them up from the box and the oil used was very thin and almost none inside, so I put in some of my mobil 1 synthetic axle grease like I typically do with all my rigs.. The heat is still present and I think even alittle more.

I talked with an engineering friend of mine who is familiar with the worm drive setup and said I should put in the thinnest oil I can find like a 3in1 sewing machine oil.

He claims the worm drive creates so much friction a super thin oil is needed. So I wanted to see what your using and how have your results been? My rear axle is the hottest thing on my crawler after a 10 minute run.

[kineteks]

I don't think he's right.... check this out from "The Ins and Outs of Worm Gears" at http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=1080

The worm on a worm set gear turns, and while turning, it crushes against the load that is imposed on the wheel. The only way to prevent the worm from touching the wheel is to have a film thickness large enough to not have the entire tooth surface wiped off before that part of the worm is out of the load zone.
This scenario requires a special kind of lubricant. Not only will it will have to be a relatively high viscosity lubricant (and the higher the load or temperature, the higher the viscosity must be), it must have some way to help overcome the sliding condition present.
Viscosity (thickness)
Viscosity is the major factor in preventing the worm from touching the wheel in a worm gear set.

[Robbob]

yeah i think thin oil would work best if we were using sealed cases and the gears were bathing in it.

for us i think we need something synthetic for sure but how thick is gonna be to thick.

[Rocksmith Eng.]

I just did a run on my rig
Rear is 84.2
front 82.4

motor is 145.8/45t novak

This is with my gearjelly of course.
This was after a pretty hard moshin on my backyard rock garden. I dropped my pinion to a 15t and that really helped

[dkingston]

I just did a run on my rig
Rear is 84.2
front 82.4

This is with my gearjelly of course.
This was after a pretty hard moshin on my backyard rock garden. I dropped my pinion to a 15t and that really helped

"thumbsup"Pretty much what happened to mine. I think it will go lower when my GearJelly gets here.


- DK

[PHiSH]

Did your Mobil 1 stay on the worm gear? I packed a lot of M1 grease in and it seemed to like to gather on the diff housing rather than staying on the worm gear since it's at the top. Is it possible that your axle is heating up because the grease isn't staying on the worm?

[AreCee]

Anyone try Tamiya AW (Anti-Wear) grease? A little of this stuff goes a long way. It sticks like glue to metal gears.

[letus]

I don't think he's right.... check this out from "The Ins and Outs of Worm Gears" at http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=1080

The worm on a worm set gear turns, and while turning, it crushes against the load that is imposed on the wheel. The only way to prevent the worm from touching the wheel is to have a film thickness large enough to not have the entire tooth surface wiped off before that part of the worm is out of the load zone.
This scenario requires a special kind of lubricant. Not only will it will have to be a relatively high viscosity lubricant (and the higher the load or temperature, the higher the viscosity must be), it must have some way to help overcome the sliding condition present.
Viscosity (thickness)
Viscosity is the major factor in preventing the worm from touching the wheel in a worm gear set.

Cool, great info on that. Says ISO viscosity 320 & 680 are typical worm gear grease, especially in steel on steel.

Mobil 1 Synthetic (red stuff), which I use as well, is ISO 220.

[Dark8ngel]

I use Molub-Alloy, we use it on a large scale in Mining, but if you look you can find the smaller tubes at some type of big hardware store. I've used this for years in all my r/c racing diffs and have never had a worn out gear or failure issue."thumbsup"

Molub-Alloy is designed to lubricate heavily loaded open gears and screw type gears. It exhibits excellent adhesive and cohesive characteristics since the gel-like lube ‘liquifies’ when pressure is applied, carrying away both heat and contaminants. yet it resists ‘squeeze-out’ and clings tenaciously even to gear teeth in vertical orientation.

[MISFITCOMPER]

Tomorrow I will be trying some of my VERMEER machine greese, which I use on my trencher. Its a synthetic blend and only needs to be aplied once a year on all the chassis points. Ill let you guys know how it works.

[BJoe]

Dad suggested trying Lucas Red and Tacky, apparently that stuff was among the best lubes for the track machinery at the last railroad he was with.

[ripper7777777]

Sounds like good stuff

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=46&catid=2&loc=show



You don't need to pack it in there, once the gears are coated the extra will be pushed to the diff walls serving no purpose at all. Also tons of heavy thick sticky grease increases the load on the gears.

The fact is the worm gears will need to be relubed, it's just going to be part of the maintenance.

The best thing we can do is try different greases and see what lasts the longest before wearing off.

If we had a sealed axle than we could run an oil and not worry about it.

[HiloDB1]

I dont own a LCC but I have a RF and I am running gearjelly in my axles on the worms. I have never had a problem with my axles heating up. It never gets much hotter then 85*.

[RcBro]

Gearjelly is basically what I'm using now, minus the teflon bubbles..

[Del Monte]

Gearjelly is working great for me "thumbsup"

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

Gearjelly is working great for me "thumbsup"
That's what I'm using. Cleaned the gears, then packed it in. It was actually alot more drag with them packed.

[nsg1rc]

I use Molub-Alloy, we use it on a large scale in Mining, but if you look you can find the smaller tubes at some type of big hardware store. I've used this for years in all my r/c racing diffs and have never had a worn out gear or failure issue."thumbsup"

Molub-Alloy is designed to lubricate heavily loaded open gears and screw type gears. It exhibits excellent adhesive and cohesive characteristics since the gel-like lube ‘liquifies’ when pressure is applied, carrying away both heat and contaminants. yet it resists ‘squeeze-out’ and clings tenaciously even to gear teeth in vertical orientation.

I found this info on Molub-Alloy.
Not sure on which one should be used..........

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/subsection.do?categoryId=82958713&contentId=6005585

[sniders1975]

Hey Guy's I run an automotive repair shop & the stuff that im using is a thicker royal purple oil or gear lube that oil has polishing agents in it thats what it is designed for friction! It works great keep's the axel cooler also it's a little pricy but a quart will last for a while! just my .02

[DUDE]

anybody try Sil Glyde yet?

[toyofast]

From a fellow ORCRC'er that has the Losi axles under his 2.2 scale rig....



I broke em in for 20 min each with a small, constant load on the drill press with the grease they came with. Then i tore em down, and greased em up real good with some LGB train transmission grease. The Big LGB trains use worms and have forever, i figured if anyone made a quality grease for worm transmissions, it would be them. Im real happy with the grease so far, i used it in AX10 axles, and i like it better than the GM grease i had been using, i even like i more than the Asociated black stuff i had always used. Seems to spin pretty freely, not fling as easy and it keeps constant viscocity up to 300F or something like that.

[DiEzel]

Im using Bush's grease... Super thick. Use it on Class 1 Race cars & other high end race vehicles...

Something to think about. Doing "Temperature" Testing your going to get inaccurate readings as you progress due to the worm wearing in more.

Just a thought.

[punkuup5150]

has ne one tried to tap there gear houseings so they can re lube there gears so they dont have to take them apart everytime? then u could put a plug in the hole so nothing gets in the houseings

[MISFITCOMPER]

The VERMEER synthetic grease is a go. The axle temp are 75-80. Just letting ya'll know.

[Dark8ngel]

Molub-Alloy:

After 15mins of hard running, first time with a motor in it. The front diff with 2 shims was 72 deg. and rear diff with the 4 shims was 85 degs. Wanted to see if there was a temp difference between 2 & 4 shim'd diff. A little more run time a nd the 2 shim temps will go down.

[kineteks]

I drilled a hole for a 4-40 set screw just under the input shaft. I used an .089" drill and just started the tap so the last part of the hole is un-tapped/self-tapping. I stuck a 3/32" long set screw in there and it's tight as a tic. I've got some Gear Jelly in a plastic syringe and I can squirt it in easily. I figure I'll have to crack the cases eventually to remove the excess grease but I can put grease right on the worm spool so I don't need to use much each application. I had everything apart and de-greased when I drilled the hole, I'd be afraid of leaving nylon chips in the axle if you did it while it's assembled.

[grouser]

So what do ya think aout putting another hole on the other side to let the excess grease out when you fill it?

[punkuup5150]

it sounds liek u dont need to pack the houseing with grease just enough to coat everything. it sounds to be that u have a harder time if its packed with greese putting more strain on the worms and heating up ur motor but this is all from just reading what everyone has been posting.

[BJoe]

it sounds liek u dont need to pack the houseing with grease just enough to coat everything. it sounds to be that u have a harder time if its packed with greese putting more strain on the worms and heating up ur motor but this is all from just reading what everyone has been posting.

I asked my Dad if he had any suggestions when I go to regrease the axles, he suggested pretty much what you just posted with that Red and Tacky stuff. I guess they used this stuff for ballast tampers that would eat lower cost replacement bearings and could make two sets of bearings last as long as the stockers for considerably less money.

[4x4transam]

I don't know why everyone is so worried about heat, i filled up the diffs with high impact automotive grease { the black stuff } the highest temp i got was 105 and thats running it full speed in high grass. touching the axle and feeling the heat does not worry me a bit, i am going to run them just like that. I did not read that anyone had a diff failure just heat, so why worry and bash the Losi crawler for it ?

Novak Goat System
18 T Pinion
2000 7.4 lipo
DX3R

[keala]

I don't know why everyone is so worried about heat, i filled up the diffs with high impact automotive grease { the black stuff } the highest temp i got was 105 and thats running it full speed in high grass. touching the axle and feeling the heat does not worry me a bit, i am going to run them just like that. I did not read that anyone had a diff failure just heat, so why worry and bash the Losi crawler for it ?

Novak Goat System
18 T Pinion
2000 7.4 lipo
DX3R

i don't think anybody here is bashing the losi. this thread is just for everybody's input on what type of grease is best for this rig. this is just like the motor/esc thread. the more info the better. it will help future losi owners with the right choice of lube and motor/esc choices. i own one and i'm happy i do. aloha

[cuzican]

Hey Guy's I run an automotive repair shop & the stuff that im using is a thicker royal purple oil or gear lube that oil has polishing agents in it thats what it is designed for friction! It works great keep's the axel cooler also it's a little pricy but a quart will last for a while! just my .02

Royal Purple for the win!!!! This is what I'll switch to if I have a heat problem with my first setup.
My 1:1 vehicles see nothing other than Royal Purple products.

[LosiDvr]

Over the weekend I took 1 shim out of the 3 shim area and 1 shim out of the 2 shim area. After that I cleaned everything up and greased the worm gear up with some Amsoil full synthetic general purpose grease. I then put the axle on a cordless drill (full speed) for and 15 - 20 minutes, each axle. The axle was not even the slightest bit warm but I did not have any load on them at all. Will be interesting to see after I mount the tires and drive it. My .02

[grouser]

Took the two extra shims out,,,filled the worm and drum with Lucas "Red and Tacky" grease,,,ran them on the drill,,, two battery packs and the diffs were cold to the touch,,,,"thumbsup"
#770

[Robbob]

Over the weekend I took 1 shim out of the 3 shim area and 1 shim out of the 2 shim area. After that I cleaned everything up and greased the worm gear up with some Amsoil full synthetic general purpose grease. I then put the axle on a cordless drill (full speed) for and 15 - 20 minutes, each axle. The axle was not even the slightest bit warm but I did not have any load on them at all. Will be interesting to see after I mount the tires and drive it. My .02

let us know how that works, i was thinking the same thing on original rebuild but wasnt sure how it would effect the wear.

i took mine back apart last night to check grease and wear and noticed although my marine grease was still solid in there it did break down on the gears. i could see the wear patterns on the spool teeth, it was just the corners seeing wear.

i also looked at the 3 shims and with a magnifying glass could see the pressure marks left on the 2 that hit directly on the worm. i replaced 2 of the shims with one Traxxas teflon shim and a .011 shim to equal the 3 stock ones. felt good but didnt hit the rocks, i could feel warmth in the axles after about 10 minutes. i also switched to Lucas high tac red this time, gonna run around again tonight then tear them down and check wear and grease.

[ripper7777777]

Just wondering, is everyone checking to make sure the grease they use is safe on plastics?

I was going to use Moly grease the same stuff I use on my Honda and it's not safe for plastic, than I started thinking how a lot of grease doesn't even come in plastic containers.

Anyone know how bad this stuff is on plastic?

[grouser]

Just wondering, is everyone checking to make sure the grease they use is safe on plastics?

I was going to use Moly grease the same stuff I use on my Honda and it's not safe for plastic, than I started thinking how a lot of grease doesn't even come in plastic containers.

Anyone know how bad this stuff is on plastic?
I swetted that also but got over it after I realized a failure means buying a new set of plastic axile housings,,,not like my heli where it could take out the whole ship,,,,

[grouser]

i also looked at the 3 shims and with a magnifying glass could see the pressure marks left on the 2 that hit directly on the worm. i replaced 2 of the shims with one Traxxas teflon shim and a .011 shim to equal the 3 stock ones. felt good but didnt hit the rocks, i could feel warmth in the axles after about 10 minutes. i also switched to Lucas high tac red this time, gonna run around again tonight then tear them down and check wear and grease.
are you talking about the three spacers on the WORM ,,,cuz we are pulling the shims off the DRUM gear not the worm,,,they need all three on both side there,,,,:shock:

[ripper7777777]

I swetted that also but got over it after I realized a failure means buying a new set of plastic axile housings,,,not like my heli where it could take out the whole ship,,,,

Yea I usually don't worry about it, but this is the first time I've seen a Warning not to use it on plastic, so I got some Mobile 1, if it fails than to hell with it I will use the Moly Grease.

[Stormin2u]

I found this info on Molub-Alloy.
Not sure on which one should be used..........

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/subsection.do?categoryId=82958713&contentId=6005585

Molub-Alloy:

After 15mins of hard running, first time with a motor in it. The front diff with 2 shims was 72 deg. and rear diff with the 4 shims was 85 degs. Wanted to see if there was a temp difference between 2 & 4 shim'd diff. A little more run time a nd the 2 shim temps will go down.

Hey 8ngel can you tell us which Molub-Alloy your using?

[BCkoots]

What about a lithium grease? I have some, guess it wouldn't hurt to try. I'm not having axle heat issues but motor heat issues with a goat and 14t pinion.

[MISFITCOMPER]

What about a lithium grease? I have some, guess it wouldn't hurt to try. I'm not having axle heat issues but motor heat issues with a goat and 14t pinion.

Try it dude. You never know it may work. My VERMEER grease is kicking ass son. Trial and error is the best experiment.

[ripper7777777]

What about a lithium grease? I have some, guess it wouldn't hurt to try. I'm not having axle heat issues but motor heat issues with a goat and 14t pinion.


Can't hurt to try as long as you monitor the friction being caused, just feel the axle case for heat. Otherwise stop by an autoparts stofe and spend the 3 to 7 bucks and pick a better greese that won;t break down as easy.




On a side note, my two rear spool bearings were dragging like mad, so I cleaned them and relubed the bearings and it all spins a lot smoother, just another thing to check.

[TLTkrawl]

Im running R2 grease and it kicks ass

[MDcrawler72]

This grease is by far the best I have used! I run it my my 5T and this stuff is STICKY and works wonders on keeping away gear wear.

http://www.teamgonads.com/rccars/search/1221.html

or

http://www.davesmotors.com/s.nl/c.885035/n.1/it.A/id.5042/.f

[dezfan]

Has anyone tried Gorilla Snawt?

http://cgi.ebay.com/GORILLA-SNAWT-RC-Grease-Racer-Pack-1-0oz-Container-26cc_W0QQitemZ170217706671QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27a1c414af&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

[Robbob]

Has anyone tried Gorilla Snawt?

http://cgi.ebay.com/GORILLA-SNAWT-RC-Grease-Racer-Pack-1-0oz-Container-26cc_W0QQitemZ170217706671QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27a1c414af&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116


dont quote me but 'marine grease'

[rc-zombie]

I am having good results with Lucas red and tacky and thrust bearing grease.

[moto44]

Is Gear-Jelly a hobby industry product or automotive? Just want to find were I can buy it.

[Speedracer19]

Is Gear-Jelly a hobby industry product or automotive? Just want to find were I can buy it.

From here:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127981

[Rocksmith Eng.]

Shoot me a pm and I can hook u up




Is Gear-Jelly a hobby industry product or automotive? Just want to find were I can buy it.

[grouser]

I am having good results with Lucas red and tacky and thrust bearing grease.
X2 "thumbsup"
ZERO heat problems in the axles,,,,,,,,

[DBR]

Worm drive oil "thumbsup"

http://www.bicwarehouse.com/worm-drive-saw-oil-80111.html

During and after break-in, I have not had a hot axle yet.

[GearLoDriveSlo]

im using a synthetic lube called Super Lube, its made by Synco Chemical Corporation. it is the best stuff for everything. its temp rating is -45 to 450f. my worms dont even get warm to the touch after 15mins of crawling. i also had to remove the extra shims. do a seach on it, because this stuff is amazing."thumbsup"

[GearLoDriveSlo]

its the multi-purpose grease with syncolon, better known as teflon

[JPH Racing]

I used Green Slime from Team Associated, seems to work awesome! "thumbsup"

[Robbob]

I used Green Slime from Team Associated, seems to work awesome! "thumbsup"

how many runs have you gotten on them and have you torn them down to see how much was left or how it looked?

got me thinking maybe the thinner stuff could be better for efficiency instead of fighting against it.

[APESHAT]

'Green Slime' huh- got a # on that JPH?
sounds like that fixaflat stuff. . lol

[MX70]

still in the break in stage, used drill to acquire my assumptions,
Im using 30 wt oil in diffs, with a custom gasket on the axle shafts that keeps my oil in the diffs, only quarter full, so that the spool always touches the oil. the case doesn't leak either.
( cut some rubber gasket material to slightly large than the inner axle diameter, then cut hole in middle for axle to go thru)

also noticed that just the corners of the spool was showing wear, this is not like setting mesh on my 1:1?......

oh yeah and thanks to all of the great info, checked and pulled the two extra spool shims. that helped loads with temp.

gotta lube tranny next any advice?

[Speedracer19]

still in the break in stage, used drill to acquire my assumptions,
Im using 30 wt oil in diffs, with a custom gasket on the axle shafts that keeps my oil in the diffs, only quarter full, so that the spool always touches the oil. the case doesn't leak either.
( cut some rubber gasket material to slightly large than the inner axle diameter, then cut hole in middle for axle to go thru)

also noticed that just the corners of the spool was showing wear, this is not like setting mesh on my 1:1?......

oh yeah and thanks to all of the great info, checked and pulled the two extra spool shims. that helped loads with temp.

gotta lube tranny next any advice?

About the gear wear, check this link out & go to page 15 or 16:
http://bostongear.com/pdf/gear_theory.pdf

[grimdigital]

i would try that dark moly enriched grease they sell for automobile (car) axles or cvds....

[MX70]

about the gear wear, check this link out & go to page 15 or 16:
http://bostongear.com/pdf/gear_theory.pdf

awesome, thanks.