first real crawler starts to get moving

[hairba11]

This is the first real solid axle crawler I have ever built. I bought everything here as somebody's unfinished project. today I made servo brackets, and got everything wired up and threw a 55 turn integy motor in it. I have some 10th scale drift wheels on it now, no truck wheels came with it. I have some 2.2 moabs i'll throw on it later, but the pics will just look goofy for now.

I turned the chassis around by swapping the axles and body nounts, and reversing the leads on the motor. this puts the battery box over the front end. I made servo mounts out of .090" aluminum and I am using towerpro 995MG BB servos for steering front and rear. i think it should be enough to throw around the 2.2's.

I made steering links out of random turnbuckles I already had (nearest HS is 1 hour away) so the axels turn a little beter one way than the other. so one direction kicks the back out a little more, and one turns the front in a little more, but the turning circles are about the same.

This thing came with two integy 55 turn motors. one should be enough, but I have thought about making a dual motor mount.

the bronko body it came with is too short for the links, but with the current links there is a 15.25" wheel base which may be a little long for the 2.2's

flex is ok with about 1/2 - 3/4" over the top of a 12oz can

I have all the parts I need to make this 4wd with the exception of the axle shafts and the diff case for the bevel gears, and the bearings.

I want to get a new body that will fit the truck a little better, and longer steering links to center up the steering, and gearing down to 13/96.

right now the front is about 50% sprung, and the rear is about 75%. you have to get to about a 45* angle before the front starts to unload, but that is not under power.

Any suggestions and critisisim will be taken well.
Thanks.
H

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/P4080252.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/P4080253.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/P4080254.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/P4080255.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/P4080256.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/P4080258.jpg

[hairba11]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4080259.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4080260.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4080261.jpg

threw some foamless moabs on narrowed traxass rimms on it. I am going to need a new body, and the torque lean is pretty substantial.

[gravelcrawler]

i bet it does some awsome drifting. it looks pretty sweet

[Cslax06]

When you say torque lean you mean when the axles twist right?

[dittohead]

Turn your lower links around the other way, the bend should be towards the axle. I would also shorten the front links at least an inch, but leave the rear links longer, but i prefer 60/40 suspension setups. Getting the WB closer to 12.5" is to your advantage since the belly gets hung up too much with the 2.2 tires and long WB. Truck looks good otherwise.

I just ordered a 4x4 WK last night and i am looking forward to turning it into a trail runner. Dont need another dedicated crawler.

[eric113]

So your the bastard that bought this rig,:lol:I was trying too also. I would swap the front links to back and back links to front. Then you have 60/40 setup and just hack back of the body.

[lohocla]

looks good so far. great looking body:D you should get a k2-3S chassis and shorter links and make a scale trail rig. It is too long for 2.2 tires you wil be getting hung up on the belly. if you do decide to get a new body I woudlnt mind taking that bronco off your hands, you know if you dont need it anymore;)

I cant wait till my wk4x4 gets here already, damn backorder.

[hairba11]

csl... yeah, when I goose the throttle, the whole truck sways to the right.

dit... yeah, i like the revese the lower links, right now the driveshaft is the lowest point.

right now the wheels castor blocks sit like /------\ front to back. the diffs sit level, and the wheel blocks are clocked back toward center. shortening the Lower links would stand the castor blocks up more like |------|

would the wheelbase make more sence switching to savage sized tires? I can't immagine the climbing ability of low profile moabs for the 40 series, but getting something 6.5 inches instead fo 5 inches might help it out some?
or would I then be taxing the capabilities of the drivetrain?

Sorry eric, I was working night shift and managed to be in the right place at the right time. What dou you mean front links to back? I measured and the links and the bottom 4 are all 6.5 inches. the body mount holes are ofcenter on the bronco bod, the chassis sits pretty square, but the bod is pushed back.

thinking of going for either
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001337463&I=LXDEN7&P=K
or
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001337463&I=LXDA41&P=K
or
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001337463&I=LXDKZ5&P=K

when i make the gearing and shaft and bearing order. I have a friend with a graphics shop who want's to play with painting bodies, so I may get a couple

I figure the digger bod is long enough to cover the truck as is
the 34 A truck has open front fenders and the front end can stick out as far as it likes
the elcamino just looks sweet.
or maybe I can make a mold of my 77 LTD. that would be sweet.

[dittohead]

Im no WK expert, since i have only ran my buddies 2wd WK once, but i would say the driveline is not up to the abuse of maxx size tires. Like i said, i would shorten the links down and get it to around 12.5" An aftermarket chassis would be ideal.

[lohocla]

Im no WK expert, since i have only ran my buddies 2wd WK once, but i would say the driveline is not up to the abuse of maxx size tires. Like i said, i would shorten the links down and get it to around 12.5" An aftermarket chassis would be ideal.


can you run maxx size tires on any shafty? I dont recall ever seeing it done.
My friend played with my super clod and loved it compared to my 2.2. he asked me to build him one on a budget and immediately I thought of wk4x4 but I know he doesnt want 2.2's. I actualyl had 40 series big joes in mind for his build but then thought to myself, can a shafty hold up to larger tires?

[theTman]

can you run maxx size tires on any shafty? I dont recall ever seeing it done.
My friend played with my super clod and loved it compared to my 2.2. he asked me to build him one on a budget and immediately I thought of wk4x4 but I know he doesnt want 2.2's. I actualyl had 40 series big joes in mind for his build but then thought to myself, can a shafty hold up to larger tires?

the txt can run 40 series tires no problem and it's a shafty.

[dittohead]

My TXT is a shafty and you can put whatever tires you want on it. I run maxx mashers usually but i have had 40 series MOABs and maxx size redrocks with no trouble. The axles are alot beefier.

[hairba11]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4080265.jpg

I flipped a link around to look at it. I definently think i need to flip the axles over. the whole u joint is hanging down waiting to get smacked. I do like the way the links sit better than the original layout, it make more sence.

I have som 3d cad software coming, i'll look at fabbing a chassis for this thing. I put myself on a tight budget to get this thing running, so if I get too crazy with it I'm going to have to do the modifications myself. I'm thinking of a slightly wider shock mounting points to put them at vertical for a drooped setup, then widening the center of the chassis and putting the motor off to the side of the WK tranny to lower the C.O.G. and with dual steering servos, and eventually lights, it may be good to put in a separate radio battery pack.

I don't have a lot of places to run a crawler hardcore, and as far as I know i'm the only person with a crawler for an hour in any direction, so this will be more of a crawler basher than crawler comp. that's why going to larger tires and 4 wheel steering works for me.
ultimately I only have to make one person happy, but to do it I like the help :)
Thanks for the comments keep 'em coming.

[neverupright]

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001337463&I=LXDEN7&P=K


I like this one.

[NickRummy]

I'd say you are ok running maxx wheels. The WK even comes with 14mm hexes.

Looks pretty good. Flipping the axle won't make a difference. shorten your upper links and it will pull the pinion shaft back up.

[Natedog]

...Flipping the axle won't make a difference. shorten your upper links and it will pull the pinion shaft back up.

You mean shorten the lower links to get the pinions up. This will also get you closer to the 12.5" wheelbase. Lookin good otherwise and yes the WK comes with 14mm hexes besides the 12mm it uses for the stock wheels. After disassembling my WK, I think its' driveline will hold up to Maxx size tires.

[hairba11]

never, I like that one too and it is long enough to do the job, even once maxx wheels go on.

nick, there were 12mm's on this one. and if I shorten the upper links won't it twist the pinion further down?, i'd want to shorten the lower links right?

now front castor block /-----\ rear
shorten lower links front |-----| rear
I want more steering and less road grater lean right?

of course if I rotated the link mount blocks 90* back to original, I could put the lower links on the bottom which would shorten them effectively, and mount the shocks on the top of the axel instead of on the inside edge. or would that raise the center of gravity too much? even if i try and make it droopy?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEPB8&P=7
I'm thinking this for a wheel and tire combo. pull the tire and narrow the rim, cut the foam, reinstall

[swhenrik]

Dig some more in the stuff that came with the truck, you should find a little bag of parts... in it should be a set of 14mm hexes. Look close, it's sometimes taped in somewhere hard to see.

I personally think Maxx size looks too big on it....

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25334&d=1167843795

And the ones in you link are bigger yet!

More pics in my old thread here: http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54663

If you do run Maxx wheels, you'll likely want 1/2" offset wheels.

[hairba11]

the difference between your pick and my truck is the long links on mine. I have a 15 inch wheelbase right now. the 2.2 moabs look a little small with 5 inch overall, so the 6 inch overall might look and perform a little better. and with an 8th scale body on it, they should look right.
I got this truck off another forum, it was half taken apart with bags of future Front axle parts and new motors included. no wheels, only 12mm hexes, etc.

I was thinking of taking the wheels off the savage to see how they looked on the WK, then got the crazy idea to take apart one of the kongs and pull the foam out. that was 5 minutes of wrestling to get the foam out in one piece. It got me thinking, but I'm not going to try and turn those, that would be silly. and they don't feel grabby. never did get the wheels off the savage.

I was looking at the offset. it seems that all of the maxx wheels are offset toward the face of the wheel. would narrowing the rim be enough to get the back of the wheel and tire away from the links and steering? Its bad enough looking at narrowed beadlocks without having to remind yourself that that cost is PER axle

I looked at the links, I think it will be easy enough to cut about a 1/4 inch out of the length of the lower links to tighten up the whole thing andget the axles pointed in the right direction.

I rotated the pivot blocks around the axle, but the angle of the diff was up way too much, and mounting the shock was nigh impossible, so the pivot blocks are back to "normal"

:edit:

ok, i cut out about 5/16 inch total from the lower links, WB is now 14.8 inches. I got all the links turned around the right way. shortening the links helped with the pinion angle, and give the truck less of a steering road grater feel to it.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4090267.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4090268.jpg

[hairba11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqnIMwOQIm4

just back an forth on the pool table, tried to gt the torque lean on camera. any ideas on combating the lean?

[frdtrkguy]

Just an idea for tires. Ive been running Imex Red Rocks and they measure 5.5 inches and look massive next to my moabs. The W-K drive train has held up fine so far to these. BTW Go droopy its the best mod ive made so far!

[JIA's Dad]

Hairba11, In looking at the first post pics I noticed (and you remarked that the drive shaft was low) that the axle needs to be rotated so that the screws on each end of the axle are on the top of the axle. By setting the axle up this way the drive shaft will then be angled upwards. This is the correct position for the drive shaft angled up towards the tranny. This can be accomplished by shortening the top links or lengthening the bottom links or a little of each. Your off to a good start, I like it."thumbsup"

[Rockmuncher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqnIMwOQIm4

just back an forth on the pool table, tried to gt the torque lean on camera. any ideas on combating the lean?


Run a thicker shock oil in the shock that is pushing down
Shane

[hairba11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3qoJ84alGU

mounted the camera on top of the rear servo and climbed my workshop rock. filled up my tower shopping cart last night, then wussed out and closed it. too rich for my blood, I may have to weed out some of the needs

JIA's Dad, I did shorten the lower links by about 5/16 inch, this brought the pinion angle up to a little over level instead of the way under level it had been, there were some picks on the last page. which screws on the axle are you talking about?

This can be accomplished by shortening the top links or lengthening the bottom links or a little of each.

wouldn't that roll the pinion further down?

[hairba11]

well, the first tower order is away, and i am getting tires out of the classifieds when everything comes in all that will be left to get is a diff case foir the bevel gears in front. tower had a mandatory 3 pc min to backorder, so I'll have to wait for them to get in stock.

i got a 13t pinion, and an 84 and 96 tooth spurs.
Some 3.2 wheels I'll have to narrow before throwing on the k-rocks.
I'm getting the 8th scale digger bod, it won't be digger, but it should look good. it is 20.25 inches long so it should work good for the 15 inch wheelbase.
the axle shafts are on backorder, I already have the rest of the parts for 4wd.
now I just get to wait, and wait, and wait. stupid slow shipping.

[hairba11]

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTB43&P=7

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPCZ3&P=7

is it just me or do these look real close. one is the WK dif case which is oushed back to early may,
one is the e-savage dif case. I'm taking the $6.50 gamble.
Both cases use M2 screws,
both cases use 15x10x4 bearings.
I'm using jbweld to fill the case anyway.
and I don't feel like waiting to early may.
everything should be here sometime next week, so there will be updates as stuff arrives and gets done.

[hairba11]

well, I was a dumbass, and got regular flat faced tmaxx wheels, which means the inner bead is only about 35mm too far in. which stinks. the imex krocks are huge, but fit the wheelbase and don't make it look so long. It doesn't look like I would need to narrow the rims as wide as these tires are, but they don't feel as soft as i would have liked. we shall see. I'm dropping off the body today for paint sometime within the next week or so. I may be trying to cut 12mm hexes into the face of the wheel to flipflop it and give it reverse offset. the towerpro's may end up hating life. maybe I'll add a second plug to the batt to feed the r/x, I don't know how stout the bec is in the stock esc.

[hairba11]

ok, so I took a spare set of 2.2 rims, and bolted them to the front of the maxx rims to get them on the crawler. I'm not a big fan of the amount of steering effort required, so I may try and come up with some spare touring car rims to mount to the front to reduce the offset.

the e-maxx diff case got here and it fits like a charm. bolts right to the nitro rs4-mt ring gear and fits right in the WK axle. I'm still waiting on shafts, maybe by friday.

I have a friend with the huge digger panel van at his house working up a paint scheme.

I haven't played with gearing yet, but I'm working on starting a tuber chassis for this thing to help with the overall size and weight.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4230302.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4230303.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4230305.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4230304.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4230306.jpg

this thread is no longer worthless...

[JIA's Dad]

Stronger springs or different shocks will fix the torque twist.

[hairba11]

Stronger springs or different shocks will fix the torque twist.

Thanks, I think a different link setup may help also.
I took the wheels off, and put the 2.2 inside the maxx rim, then put the screws back in. it is a little less ghetto-fab, and sucks the track width in about 2". it also helps out the steering effort. I only need to shave off the top outside corner of my servo mount. it is close, but not rubbing, but it won't take much for it to start scraping the tire.

I am planning on a new chassis. I am going to attempt to use a steel roll cage as a tuber frame. I am going to have to take it to work and sand blast the powder coat off, and weld up some plates and gussets for mount positions, or I may u-bolt on aluminum pieces to make my mounts and leave the powder coat.

It is 15.5 inches long, and it looks like I can mount the lower links slightly closer together, so I might get my WB down to 14.5, this will alow near vertical shock placement. I want to try for a droop setup. Hopefully I can set my body low enough to keep a more scale look without worrying about having to cut the sides of the truck out to clearance uptravel.

the rollcage is 6 or so inches wide, so I should have plenty of room to mount the tranny and clock the motor. or to mount the whole stinkin' thing sideways.
It would also leave room for the dual motor maxx tranny if I wanted to try and get more power to the maxx k-rocks.

I have been working on Ideas for a company logo and paint scheme for the panel truck. trying to keep it from showing my sick and twisted side.

[LIKES2CRAWL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3qoJ84alGU

mounted the camera on top of the rear servo and climbed my workshop rock. filled up my tower shopping cart last night, then wussed out and closed it. too rich for my blood, I may have to weed out some of the needs

JIA's Dad, I did shorten the lower links by about 5/16 inch, this brought the pinion angle up to a little over level instead of the way under level it had been, there were some picks on the last page. which screws on the axle are you talking about?

This can be accomplished by shortening the top links or lengthening the bottom links or a little of each.

wouldn't that roll the pinion further down?

I want to see the rig with the checkered paint job on the bench!:lol:

[hairba11]

I want to see the rig with the checkered paint job on the bench!:lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p4HOgzNxiw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyd3E1m2VgE

chassis: home made
axles: Losi Mini LST
Diffs: Stock plastic
Locks: JB-Weld
ESC: stock
Steering: 4 wheel, futaba 3003? and a 3018? whatever was layin around.
radio: futaba AM 2ch
Motor(s): 2 3-15v gearmotors from allelectronics.com
Battery: 8 AA 2650mah split side to side in black hard cases from radio shack

complete build thread in sig

And my WK axle shafts came in yesterday, 4x4 happens today!!!!!!

:edit:
ok, actually got off my azz and got the front axle put together. seeing as how I had bought a diff case for an emaxx, then put the diff together to see if it would work, an since turning the screws into fresh plastic required a little extra effort, the heads are mostly chewed out and I can't get the diff apart.

so i held the red jb-weld tube up to one side axle opening and gave it a squeeze untill I could see it starting to come around the center spider gear shaft. then I put a seal on the axle and put it into place. then had to take it apart and wipe it off so I could put the bearing on but work with me here.

with the first axle held in place as a plug, i squeezed black jb-weld into the other side axle hole till it felt right, and I put the other axle in with seal and bearing already on it (see I'm a quick learner) then I put the axle into the housing so it would cure straight.

next I switched to a 96t spur. I am still using the stock pinion, but I have a 13t if I need it. I'm going to let things set for a few hours before I give it a whirl.

I'm also working on dovetailing the bronco bod that came with it, don't know how the rear is going to work out, I may just end up cutting it. I need something to use till the panel truck gets done.

[hairba11]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4280314.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4280313.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4280312.jpg

first dovetailing attempt, the rear of the body is currently riding about 3/4 inch high, I don't know if I want to try and dovetail it as much as the front, or if I just want to cut it out a bunch.

4wd is working, made a hobby shop run tonight, and picked up offset maxx rims and 14mm hexes, no more ghetto-fab 2.2 in a 3.2 to make 12mm hex and space route.

also picked up some 100 wt shock oil

[hairba11]

made a first run with it this morning, just around the yard, with a partial charge on the pack.
Here are some first impressions:

The wheel speed is still too high, even with the 96t spur and 55turn motor. I tried driving it down the steps of the front porch at an offset to twist it out, and step 2 would get it to roll over, so I lined it up and punched it, and it was able to get air to clear the 2 steps to the sidewalk.

I definently need some weight in the wheels. I could drive it up a rock, but it would either try and turtle, or it would sit with all 4 wheels spining against the side of the rock.

the k-rocks' size is good, but they seem too hard. maybe it is a lack of weight on the traction surfaces, but they had a hollw plasticy srape sound while spinning against the rock surface and the log pile.

by the time I made it to the log plie, the batt was down, if I approached slow, the krocks couldn't get ahold of the bark, if I approached with speed, it would get up and stall.

I have a full charge on it now, I'll see how it does.

Maybe I should hack out some lugs on the k-rocks to see if it would give me better bite, or put a bunch of bb's in. I haven't glued them on yet, and they didn't slip on the rims before the motor stalled out, so i know the battery was low. I may try to fit the 13t pinion on and see how much that slows me down.

[hairba11]

got my maxx rollcage in today, it will be the basis for my tube chassis. prewelded and chromemoly steel. it is wide enough to lay the whole WK powerplant down sideways for lower CG. I still need to work up upper link mounting points and figure out what i want to do with the shocks. It is a little wide for the axles, so I either need to go up, or I need to narrow and bend the tubing at each end and re-weld it. My rear driveshaft is at it's limits, does anyone know of a longer shaft. I think these are maxx shafts the outer is right at 2 3/4" and the inner is 2 3/8" long. the rear has about 5/8" of overlap which I'm afraid will twist out.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4300318.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4300317.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4300316.jpg

[todd1803]

You can extend the drive shafts easily. There are a few ways to do it, but essentially you use a chunk of driveline with the end cut off to join and some CA to join pieces together. If that doesn't make sense, I'm sure I can find you a pic.

[hairba11]

ok, I guess that works. I had worked on a project before where I used the female end on diff and trany and used 1/4" square stock to ride in the crosses. worked ok for low power/speed applications.

I cut down the original mounting tabs and bolted up the shocks, still nothing for the upper links, and the shocks are maxing out the drive line. looks like I'm going to be narrowing the new tube chassis.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4300319.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P4300320.jpg

shorter shocks would line up the drive train, but put the chassis into the tires that and i have about 6.5-7 inches of ground clearance at the center of the beast, and that puts the cg way too high.
If I narrow up the chassis, the current shock mounts may work if I make it a droop system. I am still debating that. I am noticing a distinct lack of rocks around here, the ones lining the ditch at work aside, and right now this thing has trail truck wheel speed, esp. with the monster k'rocks.
I could switch it to 32p and get 6t pin and 72t spur for 12:1 which would beat the 6.4:1 I got going now by a substantial margin. and with the tranny relocate, I don't have to worry about fitting my gearing in the stock WK framerails.
Eeeeeeeee....

[swhenrik]

To extend the Maxx shafts, run a female on both ends like you were talking about, but with a cut-off male in between, glued into one of the females. (I've had dreams that sounded a lot like this.... ;-) )

[hairba11]

you dream about being a cut off male?! :lol:

[hairba11]

well, I ruined the beautiful powder coat today. I used a mapp gas torch to heat up the tubing for the bends. I cut out the end bars, bent out the ends at the mounting perches, the bent them back in at the center triangulation. then I cut the leftovers and welded them back together. I have some paint drying now. I'll get pics up tomorrow if it looks like it will work.

oh, and swhenrik, I was just kidding, thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to try and lower the ride heigh which will bring the shaft halves back together.

[hairba11]

here are the pics
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050325.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050324.jpg

narrowing up the ends of the chassis gives the tires the clearance needed, I have settled on a ride height, and should be able to get this out of the stock WK shocks inverted at full droop. I'm going to put 100wt oil in them and mount them up.

I took a side shot to help position the upper links. Looks like I have some more fab work ahead of me.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050323.jpg

[hairba11]

alright, I got the shock oil changed, got the shocks mounted, made my upper link mounts and got everything else thrown on the chassis. drove it around the house a little and noticed the droop setup helped get rid of the torque lean. I may be trying to find some return springs for the axles to suck them back down. I haven't gotten it outside yet, got the posed shots to post here first.
enough jibba jabba, get on wi' da pics.
full droop
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050326a.jpg
full extension
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050330.jpg
rear: I have one shock that must have an air bubble or something. it tries to push up.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050327.jpg
front
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050329.jpg
top passenger side
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050328.jpg
mandatory articulation shots
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050331.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050332.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5050333.jpg

well that ought to kill dialup.

EDIT:
I also took a dremel to the top of the tranny and got the 13t 48p to work with the 96t spur.
7.38*1.87*2.92 = 40.3:1 final. on a 55t motor with 6.5 inch tires. It is still a fast walk.

edit2:
just took a quick drive outside, on the carpet I didn't notice, but in the grass, the added restance starts twisting the body and extending the driver's side shocks. the driver's rear has a weird springy bubble anyway, so that doesn't help.
The 13t pinion gave noticeably more torque, obviously, but it still came near to stalling the 55 turn. on the other hand, I'd rather it stall than twist off axles every time. climbing on my two decorative rocks was pathetic. the highish center of gravity, combined with the torque lean extending the shocks all the way adding to the offset cg just turtled every time. it was also too floppy to side hill at more than maybe 20* before the shocks extended and it rolled. then I ran into the other problem. there were like 4 threads going into the plastic link ends. I am going to have to get new ends, and get the threads further in before trying to run it again. Might as well look to retracting springs also.
This is going to be a little more crawler/trail rig. the shock shafts may see a little fuel tubing to give it some bump stops. that will help it in general running duty. the droop seems very capable, I also like the fact that when I get the body on it I don't have to worry about cutting it all up to compensate for the up travel. It will be able to look more scale.

[bronco brother]

darn sexy.

[hairba11]

thanks,
and He made heavens and earth in 6 days, rested the 7th, then made broncos, and probably texas on the 8th...

[dittohead]

Nice job on the chassis mods. Im really suprised that more people havent built tubers from these rollcages. I think you will definitely need the retracting springs in the shocks. I run with a few guys that use springless shocks and it doesnt work well. Their trucks unload on sidehills and the front unloads on climbs, which makes the truck flip over backwards. I bet the right springs will solve alot of your problems. Some decent tires would also help tremendously. Those Krocks are known for being pretty crappy.

[hairba11]

thanks, I am going to make a depot run today and see what they have. I figure i can get a tension spring (tight coil with hooks) and drill a hole in my servo mount plate and just run it from the frame crass rail to the servo plate. the front may need two smaller springs on each side of the batt box.

I cut two of the foams in half to put in the 4 tires. they deform a little but are still hard. the compound doesn't feel very sticky. I bought them used, and got a decent deal, but I'm still a crawling newb. I am also a cheap bastard and so I was thinking about cutting out every other tread bar to give to tire some teeth. give the hard compound an edge to grab with. I don't know if that would work or not. or if hacking out 17 spots with 4 lugs each on 4 tires would be worth the effort.

I also figured out that at full extension in the rear, I am exposing 2" of a 2-3/8" inner shaft. full droop is still 1-13/16". If i can find another female shaft end, I can cut it down to 1-3/4", then cut off the male shaft and glue it into the cut down female to give me more overlap.

Would CA work for that? or would I need something flexible so it wouldn't crack under torsion twisting? could I put a small hose clamp on the outside of the cut off female shaft and squeeze it enough to hold, or whould i rotate the male shaft 90* so it is more of a sticker than a slider and just wedge it in there?

edit:

Got springs today
source: home depot
Prime-line slide co.
sp-9612
handyman springs
7/16 x 2-3/4 x 0.034 wire
maxx safe load 3.57lbs

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5060336.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P5060337.jpg

I still get full articulation, but when i pick it up, the axles only drop about 1/2" instead of full swing.

[hairba11]

ok, the springs worked perfectly, I can get to about 35* now sidehilling instead of 20* before it rolls.
I was able to climb one of the decorative rocks before it fell off. (jagged cone shape)
I managed to get it up to the second step on the back porch, the krock's are not very sticky.
I just realized I don't have any weight in the tires at all. I mean, it's ok, because I haven't glued them yet either, but that will probably help some too.

It still moves at a decent walk with the 13/96 gears, I may switch to 32p and go for a 8/72 setup. That will bump me from 7.38:1 to 8:1 I do like the fact it is fast enough I don't have to carry it from the back yard to the front due to getting bored waiting for it to get there.

I also tried the "stay on the throttle in a endo" and it wors well with the roll cage, made it back onto it's wheels everytime. Now if only I found the trick for saving it when it goes into the "flopping on it's side like the dog when you got it drunk" maneuver...

[dittohead]

weights in the front tires helps tremendously. Im not sure if you will ever get those tires to work very well, but you already have them and it costs nothing to hack them up, so i would go for it. The sidehilling thing cant really be fixed other than to get your CG as low as possible. Mount as much stuff as possible on the axles. Im sure the chassis is fairly top heavy, so you need to offset as much of that weight as possible. The weighted tires will have the most dramatic effect.

[swhenrik]

you dream about being a cut off male?! :lol:

Yeah, the dream was awesome right up to that part :lol:

oh, and swhenrik, I was just kidding, thanks for the suggestion.

I figured so... just wasn't around all weekend.... I'm surprised no one else suggested it, it was not my idea "thumbsup" But you haven't done it yet?

[hairba11]

nah, the closest hobby shop is an hour away. I spent the weekend stuffing a sub box into a little car when i wasn't running the WK.
I'm gonna bring it to work tomorrow and see how it does on the rocks in the ditch.
gonna take a little video also.
you can see some of the location in the vids on page 2 of the mlst crawler

[hairba11]

VIDS are HERE!!

I took it to work today and played in the ditch, got some decent footage, and a lot of crappy stuff.
there were a few hand o' God occurences, and I managed to shake nearly all of my hardware loose. I didn't realise the forces involved.
new mantra:
loctite is your friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvBMl6iO3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0owegyGHmZQ

I have one more downloading, i'll edit it in later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U7n5K3lmqA
in cab cam

[hairba11]

I hate updating my own posts, but with 2300 veiws I guess I'm doing a good enough job noone feels like jumping in an saying "hey dumbazz, you forgot about x" while being mainstream enough I don't get all the "wow. cool. i want one" posts either, so I guess I'll get on with it.

having checked the rig out after it's first outing, I have some notes on performance.

1. even the 13/93 is not slow enough, or maybe I don't have enough seat time to caress the throttle correctly. I did the math, and if i had 5" tall 2.2's on it I would be 16.4/93 gearing to get the same tread speed. there are other people who are happy with that, but for a full droop setup, it moves too fast.

2. the esc did get hot but never kicked out. I spent enough time near full throttle, or off to keep it comfy.

3. the k'rocks did alright for being full width and not glued to the rim with no weight in them. I'm looking at getting a set of 40 series moabs for obvious reasons.

4. one 55t just doesn't have enough stank to pull this rig. yeah, I got a half hour in at lunch, and another half hour or so after work off a 3000mah pack, but there was not a lot of high stall crawling here. more like quasi controlled rampaging. I have harley's motor template, so i am going to do a hybrid and mount dual motors. I may be investigating an external slipper setup in the future.

5. the built in slipper did start letting go toward the end of the crawler eye veiw shot. mostly when one of the k'rocks stopped spinning and grabbed an edge. it was still pulling reletively strong, but I can't guarantee it would be rolling after another half hour in the ditch.

6. the doop setup did really pretty good. with no weight in the wheels, and only servos on the axles, the springs are a little stiff, but do a good job of maintaining the composure of the rig when side hilling and with steep aproaches (not taped) with a little weight in the wheels, I think it will do much better.

7. I am going to have to do something about the shock mount location, at some point in the run, a twist/ wedge/ rollover situation poped the cap on one side of the front and cross threaded it. I did not see it till today, but it explains why the ride quality changed in the front end. when the oil leaked out it got between the axle housing and the rotated link mount and lubricated the axle enough that it slipped in to the pumpkin. so there was a larger leverarm working against a shock with no oil. I may also need, NEED alloy shocks too. about a 1/2" piece of fuel tubing on the shock shaft will be needed for a bump stop too. that should help it survive landing impacts also.

8. even with maybe 1/2" of driveshaft contact on the rear maxx shaft it didn't twist out, that may change in the future with stickier tires and dual motors with lower gearing.

9. the gearing now is 7.38:1. I'm thinking of going to 32p and doing about 9 or 10:1 with a 7 or 8 T pinion on a 72 spur. that should slow it down enough for it to crawl. now it is more of a rock hopper than a rock crawler.

10. as much as I gripe about the high speed I know that wheelspeed is most of th reason I had any success at all with the light hard tires. I was able to save a few spills due to wheel speed, but who knows how many spills were caused by exsessive wheelspeed.

overall I rate it's capability today at about %40 of where I want it to be. I need to slow it down and power it up and lower the CG. but on the other hand with a change to sprung shocks and a gearing switch, it can be a capable trail truck. and I found a $50 1/6 scale black for ranger at dollar general that looked pretty cool. I may have to make this a dual purpose chassis. 7/72 32p droopy shocked crawler with moabs to 13/96 48p sprung trail large scaler with krocks. that might be cool. get 2 for the price of the car i drive to work every day. ouch.

[hairba11]

well I went to Dollar general, and picked up the ranger. my eyes deceived me. it's too big. the ranger has a 17" wb, I'm at 14.5 right now. So I have two choices, try and neatly turn the extended cab into a standard cab, or try to sell the hardbody to a large scale builder. because a ranger can't be a tow vehicle, that's just silly.

the body is pretty cool, well detailed, with a couple of neat features.
working tailgate, removable bed cover, and the best part, the mirrors fold in so you don't break them in a rollover.
only bad part is that only the black windsheild is separate. the side mindows are just molded into the body sides and painted gloss black with the rest of the truck. the lights have clear lenses, and th snap mounds for LED's are already in the reflectors. that's why i would consider trying to shorten the body, but also why I don't think it would be hard to get my money back out of it.
anybody got a 14-15" WB hardbody they want to trade for a 17"?

[hairba11]

I have paint ordered for the 50 pannel truck bod.
I have new (to me) moabXL's weighted and mounted
I picked up a 4ch radio today to separate front and rear steer, and add front dig.
Still wallowing my way through this learning rig.

The weighted moabs behave beautifully, but the 55t motor doesn't have the cajones to move them unless the battery is peaked, then you get lovely strip/slip noises out of the tranny. I ordered another 13t pinion, so I can run dual motors, but I don't think the tranny will hold it.

had almost thought about adding gd600's to each output on the tranny, but i don't know how much torqu they can take either.

might have to say F-this and start over.

[airtoy]

nice WK building two of my own I set my rear shocks almost straight up and down it helps stabalize it I let the front end do most of the work.

[hairba11]

I'm getting another one, thinking about leaving the front end alone, flip floping the chassis and stretching out the rear a little.

also thinking about getting a lunchbox kit, and slapping the lunchbox van bod onto the WK chassis and just making it a 4wd lunchbox.

anyone know how removable/useable the lunchbox/midnight pumpkin motor/tranny/rear axle setup is for scaler use?

[sweatycrawler]

I know it sounds a little ghetto, but try running some rubberbands around your upper and lower shock mounts. this will give you a feel for how stiff of a spring to try to find.

[hairba11]

well, it has been a while, here are some updated pics.
I cut up my second WK bod to make pannels for the tube chassis, at least until my 50 chevy is done. I got to play with it last weekend at my friends house, and use his vinyl graphics cutter to make some masks. it was looking sweet, but the tip broke off the blade so I am going to have to wait till the new blades ship to get the decal work done.

I also started reading th 50/50 sprung to droop thread, and have moved the retracter springs out and put the extension springs back on. I have about 1/4 to 1/2" of up travel now. I'll see how this performs later. I'm just worried it will invite torque steer to rear it's ugly head.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P6020317.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P6020318.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/mlst/P6020319.jpg

[hairba11]

Well, trying to undroop teh truck a little bit had it laying over onto it's side while driving through grass. crossing a hill with the left side up was impossible (right side seemed to work fine...)

I pulled the huge 40 series moabs off ant went back to 2.2 mashers. The diffs really missed the clearence so I switchet to All T Dawg's to get some extra height. They work pretty well.

I also got rid of my hooptie dooptie dig setup it never worked well and I said the heck with it.

I also got rid of the tension springs on all four corners. On the front, I am still using the WK shocks (100wt) and coils but I moved the mount up almost 1.25 inches. in the rear, I ditched the WK shocks and i'm using rustler front shocks (no oil), with rear shock black springs. I fixed that danged torque twist.

there is still and adaquate amount of flex, about 6" under the front wheel before lifting in the rear, but only about 3" under the rear wheel before the other rear tries to lift.

Lowering the front and rear to lower CG forced me to relocate the battery. It is a little high, but there is a 5cell R/X pack (2000mah AA) under it. I played with it this morning, and it drives the best it has since I got the project truck.

If I can find another sert of rustler front shocks and put some rear springs on them, i will probably do the front, and lower the chassis some more to lower the CG. this thing is finally starting to drive well.

Today's pics.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/0722071518.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/hairba11/0722071516.jpg