TLT alloy knuckles on PTI axles

[K_B]

So one of the problems I encountered with the PTI axles is that "ears" of the steering knuckles will strip out over time from having the screws removed. And if you lose one of the screws, it's almost a guaranteed broken knuckle.

So I orderd a set of alloy TLT knuckles from run2jeepn specifically for the fact that the ears on the knuckle look to be the same diameter as the holes in the PTI axle ends. And I was right. And being that the TLT knuckle is taller, the ears actually hold the knuckle in place rather than the screws.

So now the stress isn't on those tiny 8mm screws anymore and because the ears actually sit inside the holes on the axle ends, the whole assembly is stronger.

I would highly recommend this modification to others. The only kicker is that the TLT knuckles use 5x10 bearings (PTI knuckle bearings are 5x8) but run2jeepn also sells knuckles and bearings as a package :)

I'll post photos and details later tonight. I just realized now that I don't have the right cable for my camera :x

[RMA]

TLT knuckles use 5x10 bearings
Maybe you should check that part again. TLT axles (including knuckles) uses 11x4mm bearings with 5mm hole. ;)

[ON THE FARM]

so that would be a 5x11x4.

[K_B]

Well, excuuuuuuse me! :)

So anyway, here's some photos that better 'splain the whole situation.

As you can see, the ears on the knuckle don't protrude very far into the holes in the axle, so the use of a 3mm socket screw is needed, approximately 4mm long. So what's that... 3x4mm or something???

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u21/kenbest76/mockup2.jpg

Next you can see how there's a gap. The gap is the same on the bottom, which you can't see. It would be wise to find some some shims to keep the knuckle centered in the axle. I didn't have any and I didn't make any. I'm lazy. We'll see how it goes.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u21/kenbest76/mockup1.jpg

Here's the knuckle installed completely. You'll probably have to grind the drivecups back to get full steering. It seems these knuckles hold the stub axle a little closer to the dogbone than the stockers did.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u21/kenbest76/finished.jpg

[K_B]

I got a chance to work on this again tonight. I've found this is not as easy as it first seemed but it is still a viable alternative to the stock knuckles.

Some PTI owners are familiar with using Super Nitro RS4 dogbones in the front axle to gain some steering. Well, these knuckles place the stub axle in close enough that even with the shorter dogbones, they sit snugly against the end of the slot in the drivecup on the stub axle. So now, when turning, the ears on the dogbone have no room to move lateraly in the slot to allow the drivecup to pivot around the end of the dogbone.

Grinding the drivecup down like I mentioned earlier won't do you any good unless you also cut the outdrive slots a little deeper in the spool. Or at least, that's my current theory. I'll be experimenting with this tomorrow.

Long story short, if you use these knuckles, you gotta grind down the drivecup a bit and also make the slots in the spool deeper to allow the dogbone to shift laterally. I'll post some more photos as I progress and it should make more sense.

[Nlee111]

Nice man. I may be behind the train, but have you seen this?

[K_B]

I have seen those. I believe they're just the same plastic as the stock gears or the electric TC3 gear, just black. But I'm not positive. What does ATD mean anyway?

However, GPM does make a delrin ring-n-pinion for the TC3. I've got a set sitting here, but haven't had a reason to install them.

[Nlee111]

I have seen those. I believe they're just the same plastic as the stock gears or the electric TC3 gear, just black. But I'm not positive. What does ATD mean anyway?

However, GPM does make a delrin ring-n-pinion for the TC3. I've got a set sitting here, but haven't had a reason to install them.


It is plastic, but I had no idea (again, behind the train) It wasn't until a few rounds of email with pti that I figured that much out.

[K_B]

I've been doing some research and this mod is becoming a total pain in the posterior. But dammit, I'm gonna get it to work if it kills me (or the truck).

Turns out that dogbones in the 55mm range are hard to come by. The hobby shop was no help, so I found some that should work on Tower. I think that TC3 CVDs might work. We shall see...

[K_B]

For anyone who might be interested (I'm barely interested at this point):

After measuring everything over and over again, I think I've got this figured out.

I finally found some CVDs that are exactly 55mm. About the only place that carries JUST the CVD bone is Ultimate Hobbies. Part number 72011.

That combines with the Associated 3/16" CVD axle should give me the steering I need. I just need to make sure the axle is the right length before I go willy-nilly and order everything.

I'm on the lookout for some 55 dogbones and I think these will work, but they're for that Trinity 1/16 Next nitro truggy thing.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001231120&I=LXPDN3&P=K

Anybody know if the Next uses standard 3mm diameter dogbones?

[OGmicromonster]

The original MMT center CVD's are the perfect length you'll need. IF you find a CVD axle that will work with your knuckle. :)

I like what you've done so far. Keep us posted.

[K_B]

Thanks... So far I'm still waiting on parts. I tried the stock center CVD's and they were about 3mm too long if I remember correctly. I may have to revisit those and see if I can do something to get them to fit because the only thing I've found that works are HPI Racer 2(?) CVDs which are discontinued. I may just try to go the dogbone route again.

[OGmicromonster]

Thanks... So far I'm still waiting on parts. I tried the stock center CVD's and they were about 3mm too long if I remember correctly. I may have to revisit those and see if I can do something to get them to fit because the only thing I've found that works are HPI Racer 2(?) CVDs which are discontinued. I may just try to go the dogbone route again.

That's weird. I test fitted a set of the stock center MMT CVD's on mine and they were the perfect length. Are you using the spool for a Nitro TC3? Or one for the electric TC3? Associated has two. One is wider than the other (ASC #1704 NTC3). I'm using the stock spools that PTI gave me which is the TC3 (ASC #1703) version.

1703 TC3 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJTS2&P=Z

1704 NTC3 http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/25_43/products_id/2185

You can see the difference on the cups.

[K_B]

I actually have both of those. I run the steel NTC3 spool in the rear (I had to grind down the slots). I'm gonna check this out this weekend if I can. I should mention again that in my initial mockup, the TLT knuckles set the stub axle inboard about 2-3mm too far. If I used the stock knuckle, the MMT CVD did work perfectly.

[OGmicromonster]

Well I got my hands on a set of Aluminum knuckles for the Tamiya Hi-lift. I'm going to see if they fit and hopefully they'll be an alternative.

I'll keep you posted. Now there are two people on this quest. "thumbsup"

[rm25x]

Good thread. Nice to see people thinking outside of the box for upgrades.

PTI just needs to make more now... hint hint...

[K_B]

I've been swapping PMs with kawika on this too. He got me to thinking that the MMT CVD should work regardless because I don't think CVDs require the same lateral movement as dogbones. Or do they?

Either way, I'm very curious as to what you find out...

[OGmicromonster]

Well, the aluminum knuckles I had for a Tamiya High-lift don't fit. They are slightly different than TLT knuckles.

[kawika]

I ordered my knuckles from JP customs. I'm going to give the trinity dogbones a try:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001231120&I=LXPDN3&P=K

I wonder if these universals will work?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXPDT6&P=V

[OGmicromonster]

I wonder if these universals will work?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXPDT6&P=V

It looks like those axles might be a bit short. They might not provide enough thread to hold your wheel on. But you can give it a try.

[K_B]

Just a quick update on this for anyone who is interested. Out of pure frustration, I decided to just put my Goliath back together with the stock steering and forget about alloy knuckles or CVDs for awhile. But what I discovered was that the alloy TLT knuckles with TLT stub axles (either stock or the longer TG-10 axles) and HPI Super Nitro dogbones will all work together.

Turns out that the stock stub axles are too shallow, but the TLT stubbies have a deeper drive cup that allows just enough room. My next step will be to increase the steering throw by removing some of the material on the axle (or the knuckles) and grinding away some of the material on the drivecup on the stub axle.

So for now, I've succeeded in solving my first issue. I now have captured knuckles that won't fall out or break if I lose a screw. So the next step is to still figure out what CVDs will fit.

The stock MMT CVDs will work with the stock knuckles, by the way. So those combined with some TC4 CVD stub axles should work. I'm gonna be raiding the LHS here shortly and just test-fit every stinkin' CVD set they have in stock.

[OGmicromonster]

TC4 stub axles won't work. :) They are too short (I've tried). Those axles are made for a touring car wheel and the centers of TC wheels are thin. 2.2 wheels are thicker in the middle so they need a longer axle (ie B4). So with that said, I would keep a B4 or T4 stub axle in mind when at your LHS.

[aggressivellc]

Hey K B Ive been tryin to find a set of CVD's that will work for a while now http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80831 if you want I can give you a list of stubs/axles Ive tried so you dont waste your time trying stuff that wont work.

[K_B]

TC4 stub axles won't work. :) They are too short (I've tried). Those axles are made for a touring car wheel and the centers of TC wheels are thin. 2.2 wheels are thicker in the middle so they need a longer axle (ie B4). So with that said, I would keep a B4 or T4 stub axle in mind when at your LHS.

Yeah, TC4s are a no-no. My brain is out to lunch anymore. I was actually thinking T4. The T4 stubbies, I think, require a spacer behind the crosspin, which is actually a benefit and will give you about a half inch of extra width.

Aggressivellc, I'll probably hit you up when I get stumped. The real killer is finding CVD bones that are the right length. I think RS4 CVDs might work, we'll see.

[aggressivellc]

Aggressivellc, I'll probably hit you up when I get stumped. The real killer is finding CVD bones that are the right length. I think RS4 CVDs might work, we'll see.

The CVD dog bone its self wont but the actual rear axle out of the RS4 MT is the best fit Ive found so far.

[Natedog]

Maybe you should check that part again. TLT axles (including knuckles) uses 11x4mm bearings with 5mm hole. ;)

That's measured as 5x11x4mm (inner, oute diameters and width).

Nice idea K_B, thanks for sharing bud! :)