Hustler style full droop Wheelie King

[lonewolf039]

I've been working on this for a while now, finally getting it close to done. Still need to work on the suspension geometry a bit, and make the body panels. It has a 14" WB, I might shorten it up to 13" as it hangs up pretty easy. Also lower the bottom links to the bottom of the chassis. I am running a 3 cell 2100 lipo, and an AXI 2808 outrunner, it has lots of power, enough to snap axles. It does heat up the Mamba 25 tho. Since nobody has axle shafts in stock, I dug through my junk box and found some old Tmax CVd's. They are the right diameter, but there isn't enough room in the stock hub for the bigger bearings. So, I took some spare Tmax hubs, cut them down and made some adapter plates, and presto, HD CVD's for my WK axles.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4090041.JPG
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[JIA's Dad]

Looking good!!! I like the mods!!!! Way to get it done!!!

[FrankyRizzo]

Check out the big brain on Brad!!

[Natedog]

Awesome job on the Maxx knuckle swap with CVDs!!! Also like your lower axle link mounts, got any more pics of those?

[PROTOTYPE]

What is the track with onit ?:?

[Brandon]

Wow looks great! Nice work on the cvd's :shock:

[neverupright]

Cutting edge man, very nice. You got a build thread?

[Cslax06]

That looks stellar. Great work!

[Milotronics]

Very nice!

[lonewolf039]

Hey, thanks for the compliments. The track width is 10.75 inches, with the narrowed maxx mashers. I also have some 2.2 moabs, but they look really tiny on those axles. I was thinking about cutting out the sidewalls from the 2.2's and gluing them on the maxx mashers, but now I have the maxx hubs, so I don't think it will work. I am working on some pics of the axle mounts, and the servo mount right now, just have to upload them.

[lonewolf039]

Here are some pics of the aluminum lower link mounts. They clamp the axle pretty tight, and hang down less than the stock mounts turned sideways.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4100003.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4100004.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4100005.JPGhttp://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4100006.JPG
Pics of servo mount. I might add in a brace from the front of the servo to the axle just to make sure nothing moves.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4100007.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4100008.JPG
Pic of tranny plate.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4100009.JPG
All were made from 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16 inch aluminum, drill press, hack saw, files and a homemade belt sander. As you can see, I have been doing some testing, and it is a little muddy right now. Also, please ignore the wiring mess, I only temporarily mounted everything for testing, I will be making a lexan shelf for the electronics, and hiding most of the wires.

[mrpink]

All were made from 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16 inch aluminum, drill press, hack saw, files and a homemade belt sander.

^^very impressive.^^

i like the tuber setup as well. are those traxxas big bore shocks?

[lonewolf039]

Thanks, it just takes a little elbow grease, and yes, they are traxxas big bores. I just need to find the right internal springs now.

[HauntFreaks.com]

nice work man"thumbsup",... thanks for the pics....

[Jeneum]

Looks great, that should hold up pretty good.

[HauntFreaks.com]

ok,...you inspired me... I will be machining a set of these this weekend... thanks again....
anyone else looking to build there own, I hope this helps
http://hauntnet.com/rc/wk/link_mounts.gif

[lonewolf039]

If you look close, you will see that I had to angle the inside of the mount to fit over the ridge on the axle. The taper also holds it in place against the ears on the axle.

[ROSS]

talk about some serious inginuity, highly impressive. great job, looks real good.

[Natedog]

...All were made from 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16 inch aluminum, drill press, hack saw, files and a homemade belt sander....

Dude, that is so schweet!!! I love the servo mount and especially the axle mounts....I have been pondering different ideas for several weeks trying not to do what you did (lots of work :) ) but had pretty much figured that this is the only really good way to mount the lower link and shock mount.

Again, very nice work!!! "thumbsup"

[lonewolf039]

Got a few more things done today, relocated the lower links and shortened the wheelbase to 13 3/8". With the relocated links, I had to file grooves in my skid plate for clearance, but now there is less of a chance of hanging up on the skid plate. The rear links should be very close to 100% anti-squat now. It's amazing how any little change can screw up your anti-squat. I also brazed on some body panel mounts.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4110001.JPG
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http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4110011.JPG

[TONKA TOY]

t-maxx hubs & shafts are friggin brilliant ............ "thumbsup" I dig it........

[lonewolf039]

Got some more done today, made some body panels out of some thin aluminum sheet I had laying around. Painted the frame and panels. Replaced the stock HPI servo in the rear with a hitec 645mg servo. Made new steering links to replace the wimpy turnbuckles I was using for testing. Hopefully tomorrow I will get the electronics back in, I'm dying to get crawling again.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4120012.JPG
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[Harley0706]

necessity is the mother of all inventions as they say. Oh the things you can do with parts you have laying around.

Honestly that is probably my second favorite WK yet!!!!

Kind of funny though, I was just talking with someone today about max sized tires on these axles. I just hadn't seen this buid obviously.

Josh

[Cslax06]

Wow I am impressed. Looks top notch...maybe even a cut above!

[lonewolf039]

Got the electronics in, did some crawling, broke 2 more stock axles. I don't recommend running a lot of power with the Max size tires. Now I am going to have to order another pair of max cvd's and convert the front. I also want to gear a bit lower. The stock tranny doesn't have much reduction built in, so I ordered an R2 tranny from RC4WD.com. I am running a 72 tooth 32 pitch spur with a 9 tooth pinion. The wheel speed is a little excessive, as it will spin donuts on my cement shop floor.:shock:
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4130001.JPG
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http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4130022.JPG
BTW, there is still snow banks up here in the great white north.

[ColquittCustom405]

I got to give it to yah,I'm impressed.Nice rig bro! Freakin sweet! What's all that white stuff outside? It's April?????

[FrankyRizzo]

It's April?????

Tell the CO guys.

[eric113]

Are the cvd's the narrow or wide ones ?

[lonewolf039]

Ya, spring is a little late this year. The snow is melting fast now tho.

The CVD's are the old ones from my original maxx before I went widetrack. Any size would work, as you have to cut a fair bit off to get them to the right length. The main thing was to find ones the right diameter to fit in the diff.

[Natedog]

Those look like MIP CVDs.

[JasonInAugusta]

Nice rig! Haven't had much time to get on hear and read through the threads...finally had a chance to check this one out.

Hammer, vise, drill, and a band saw. That's the way to do it. "thumbsup"

[lonewolf039]

Natedog, yes they are MIP CVD's. They have been sitting in my junk box for years. I am terrible for not throwing stuff out, just in case. If you look close, you will see that they are twisted and cracked at the diff end. I cut off the bad part.

JIA, thanks, it just takes a little elbow grease.:D

Now I just have to wait for parts. I'm kinda disappointed in the stock axles. I broke 3 axles so far, and they are hard to get.They would probably be good for 2.2 size tires tho.

[blue-beard]

Your rig looks great. 8) So how do you like the narrowed mashers? Did you just cut out the 2 center treads and glue them back together? Thinking about doing the same to mine, they just seem so wide for a tire thats only 5.5" tall.

[SnailMail]

very nice! did you per chance have a sketck of those aluminum plates for the maxx knuckle adapters that you could post? with measurments?

thanks

[Big Mike]

Lots of well thought out modification going on with this one.
That knuckle conversion is trick! Good thinking there...

[gravelcrawler]

looks great ihave one of those R2 trannys on order from rc4wd it should be here sometime this week so i can start my next tuber

[lonewolf039]

blue-beard, yes I did just cut out the center treads and glue them back together. They seem to work pretty good, the only thing I can compare them to is the 2.2 moabs I tried for a day. They were too small tho and hung up on everything, so I went with the Max Mashers. I am still thinking about cutting out the sidewalls and using the 2.2 moab sidewalls tho. The good thing about the big rim tho is that you only need 4 oz of airsoft BB's to fill the tire half full and it gives good support, but I think they would look better as 2.2's.

SnailMail, Sorry I didn't make any drawings. The first one I just cut and drilled until everything looked like it would work, them just copied it for the rest. I will go take some measurments for you and post them.

[lonewolf039]

OK, here are the dimensions.

- 1/8" aluminum flatbar.
- 16 mm wide
- 23 mm long
- First hole, drilled and tapped m4 for the kingpin screw, 5.5 mm from the side closest to the axle.
- Second and third holes, drilled 3 mm and countersunk, 13 and 18 mm from the side closest to the axle.
- The Max hub is cut down to the bottom of the threads for the pivot balls. Basically I just sanded them down until the threads were gone, carefully keeping it square.
- The kingpin hole should be centered over the pivot of the CVD, drill 2.5 mm holes in the hub to secure the adapter plate with m3 countersunk screws.

Here is a crude drawing, not to scale, but it has the measurments. Hope this makes sense to you all.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/Adapter%20plate.gif

[Extreme4x4Crawler]

I like the CVD idea, i won't be running that big a wheel tire combo on mine when I get it, Nice chassis too"thumbsup"

[hkusp45]

Great work!!

You got some skills for sure!

[racerrandy]

This is the one that has put me over the edge. I just have to build a tuber next time!

Awsome buggy, keep us posted.


Later,Randy

[lonewolf039]

Not much new, still waiting on parts. I have been experimenting with different rubber band to keep the shocks compressed. I have some mini-t springs on order, but for now am trying the rubber bands. The trick is to have enough tension to minimize torque twist, but light enough to let the axles droop easy. On my 60 degree, 4 foot ramp, the rubber bands make a big difference in torque twist. With the right one, it will just start to twist at the top of the ramp. Without the rubber, it starts to twist about half way up. I also have 100 wt shock oil on order, that will probably help too. I only have 60 wt right now. So many suspension tweeks to try, so little time. lol

[lonewolf039]

Well, I broke all 4 of my stock WK axle shafts, so I made up a new CVD setup with Losi LST parts. They require less work to fit, but do limit steering a little due to the weird steering arm on the LST hubs. I posted a How To here: http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70181

http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4290027.JPG
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http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4290036.JPG

The LST hubs widen my track width a 1/2 inch. It went from 10.75 to 11.25 inches.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4290040.JPG

This should cure my twisted axles problem, but now I am curious as to what the next weak link is. So far the only things I have broken are the axles. I have an R2 tranny coming, so once it is in I will be gearing it down a bit, and I will lose the slipper that the WK tranny has, so I'm sure I will find something to break."thumbsup"

I also picked up some LST Rod ends, they are pretty beefy, so I might try them on my next build.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4290042.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4290043.JPG

[lonewolf039]

Got my R2 tranny today. I have to say it sure is pretty. I am using max driveshafts so I filed the flats on no problem, but drilling the holes for the pins proved to be a challenge. I dulled up a couple of drill bits just making this much hole.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4300004.JPG

I ended up using a carbide burr to carefully drill the hole, and then used my drill bit to ream the hole to the right size. I had to resharpen the drill bit about 10 times to get the 2 holes done.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4300006.JPG


I drilled new holes in my cutting board skid plate for the R2, and mounted it. I love the simplicity and looks of the R2.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4300001.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4300002.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4300003.JPG

Mounted in my tuber. Not much WK left now tho. Only the diffs and axle housings are original.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4300007.JPG
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With an 11 tooth pinion, my crawl ratio went from 46:1 to 64:1. It has a lot more control at slower speeds, and still has lots of wheelspeed, so I might try the 10 tooth pinion tomorrow. The poor Mamba is still getting hot, I don't think it likes the 3 cell lipo.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P4300011.JPG

[clarkrw3]

I have had the same problem with drilling the R2 shafts. I can't tell you how many drill bits I have gon through but I still don't have holes. You would think since it is a "rock crawling" trans and since people always mount shafts with through pins they would make them with holes. RC4WD has said many times they are coming out with shafts that have holes...we will see.

[todd1803]

Don't go crazy with the power on an R2, they apparently aren't designed for big power. One of our members just shredded the gears using a brushless system from HolmesHobbies. It also seems that replacement gears are not available. Here's what's left of his tranny

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showpost.php?p=687966&postcount=12

[lonewolf039]

todd1803 - Thanks for the heads up. I thought these trannys were bullit proof. I see that he was running one of the hyperion outrunners, it's a little bigger than my AXI, so I should be OK. If I do grenade a gear, they are 32 pitch, so I should be able to make something to work with the right pinion gear.

clarkrw3 - Have you tried a cobalt drill bit? They are designed to drill hardened steel. You should be able to get one from any tool store. I live 1/2 hour from town, so I didn't want to drive in to town just for a drill bit, so I tried the carbide burr. It worked, but it probably would have been faster to just have gotten the cobalt bit to start with.

[clarkrw3]

todd1803 - Thanks for the heads up. I thought these trannys were bullit proof. I see that he was running one of the hyperion outrunners, it's a little bigger than my AXI, so I should be OK. If I do grenade a gear, they are 32 pitch, so I should be able to make something to work with the right pinion gear.

clarkrw3 - Have you tried a cobalt drill bit? They are designed to drill hardened steel. You should be able to get one from any tool store. I live 1/2 hour from town, so I didn't want to drive in to town just for a drill bit, so I tried the carbide burr. It worked, but it probably would have been faster to just have gotten the cobalt bit to start with.
Good to know....I got some Metal drill bits but I don't think they were cobalt, I will see about getting some of those.;-)

[lonewolf039]

clarkrw3 - a full set is a bit pricey, but they are great to have. They are a little brittle, so just use them for really hard stuff. Regular bits are good enough for mild steel, and are cheap.

I swapped in the 10 tooth pinion, and my crawl ratio is 70:1 now. The Mamba 25 runs a lot cooler now, and the control at extremely slow speeds is awesome. It still moves at a real fast walk, so the wheel speed is still good. I can still do burnouts on my shop floor, lol.

[clarkrw3]

I guess that 13 tooth pinion may be too much, however, I am running a 3013 outrunner.

[dittohead]

I drilled the output shafts on my R2 with a regular HSS but and its still as sharp as new. Slow down on the drill speed and use cutting oil. I use rapid tap brand cutting oil.

[lonewolf039]

I drilled the output shafts on my R2 with a regular HSS but and its still as sharp as new. Slow down on the drill speed and use cutting oil. I use rapid tap brand cutting oil.

That is good to know. I used the lowest speed my $50 drill press had, which is not very slow. I should have used cutting oil, but didn't have any at the time.


I ran the snot out of my tuber this weekend, on some real rocks, and let my daughter drive it. It is working really good, the switch to 100 wt shock oil let me get away with not using any springs at all. There was a little torque twist during extended steep climbs, but not bad. I am still looking for a light spring that will fit inside my Big bore shocks. No luck yet. The only ones I have found are way too stiff. I also found that by letting the kid drive it, she really got the hang of throttle control. She has driven my nitro trucks before, but they seem to encourage WFO. With the crawler, she was really getting into seeing how slow she could crawl up a rock, and was getting really good with the throttle. Unfortunately, my Mamba 25 went up in smoke. It has always run hot, but it never shut down so I wasn't too worried. I checked the amperage, and with the 70:1 gearing, I was running around 5-8 amps, with the occasional spike up to 12-14 amps when bound, and getting almost 45 minutes out of the 2100 mah pack. It should not have been too much for the Mamba 25, so I am not sure what the problem was. Anyway the Mamba will be sent in to CC for repairs, and I have a Mamba Max on order. Unfortunately, I didn't get any action shots, as I forgot my camera, but here is a picture of the fried Mamba.

http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P5070003.JPG

As you can see, the center FET's got hot enough to burn the sticker. I was using the lowest timing, and normal current control, but it never once cut out on me, except for the battery cutoff.

[todd1803]

I am still looking for a light spring that will fit inside my Big bore shocks.


Have you tried RC-18 springs?

[Natedog]

Ballpoint pen springs...from the clicker type retractable pens!

[lonewolf039]

I thought about using pen springs, but haven't tried them yet. I might give them a shot next time I pull my shocks apart. I actually bought a pair of rc18 springs, but I managed to lose them somehow. I have been looking for weeks now, can't find them anywhere. I think they are the same size as the mini T springs tho, and the mini T springs are too big to fit the big bores. No springs have actually been working very well, and I get full droop when I get high centered.

I am now using the Phoenix 25 that was on the Axi before it went in my crawler. It doesn't even get warm, and has even better starting and low speed performance. It doesn't have reverse, which sucks, but now I am thinking there must have been something wrong with my Mamba 25. With the low amp draw, it should never have gotten so hot.

[lonewolf039]

I put together a little movie of my crawler with the Phoenix 25. It has super slow speed control, the motor just barely ticks over but has tons of power. I just wish it had reverse. The R2 tranny is pretty loud, but makes it sound really cool at slow speeds, and screams when WFO. I ran for most of a battery pack, and the controller was barely warm.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/iMovieTheater8.html

[genki]

Looks awesome.....great builds never stop!

Also big ask but would you happen to have a template for your motor adapter, I have the same motor but am stuck on getting it mounted to my R2 tranny?

[2Crawlers]

That thing runs HARD! I wanna see some more video. Nice build.

[mwrighttt]

I drilled both of my shafts on my r2 with a cheap skil brand drill bit.
it was hard to get started but once it started it went right through, just had to go slow with it.

[lonewolf039]

Genki, I am on the road for the next few days, so I can't get any pictures, but what I did was draw a line on a piece of aluminum, and marked off the center, 19 mm for the Axi, and 25 mm for the motor mount, all measured from the center. Drill the center 1/4 inch or so, drill the holes for the motor 1/8 inch, and drill and tap the motor mount hole for 3mm. When I get home I can get you a picture if you want.

2Crawlers, thanks, I am hoping to get some more video up soon.

[setecastronomy]

I have some questions:

1) The axi 2808 output shaft should be 4 mm, greater than most pinion holes. Are special pinions available ? Do you make the hole grater drilling it ? I think there is little material on few theeth pinion such as 9- 10th.

2) I'm using an esc with 5v 1 A BEC such as Mamba 25. Most times I have difficulties in turning the wheels and it seems it is due to lack of torque in the servo. It is a metal gear one so I suppose the lack of torque is due to lack of current. What are you using ? Do you have a separate battery pack for the radio ?

3) You promised to post a template. Where is it ? I' m impatient !:lol:

Many thanks

Filippo

[lonewolf039]

I pulled the motor shaft out and chucked it up in my drill press, then carefully filed it down to 1/8 inch to fit regular pinions.

When I was running the Mamba 25 I was using the MPI regulator, now that I am using the Mamba Max, it has enough power to run the servo with out the regulator.

For the motor template, here is a pic of mine, nothing fancy.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P9040005.JPG

I only used the AXI because I had one sitting around from one of my 3D planes. There are lots of drop in motors out now, no modding required.

[lonewolf039]

Ok, I am now running my old handwound 55 turn speedgems motor, same gearing and battery. It is a little slower and wimpier, but has incredibly smooth low end throttle. I went on a road trip to BC, and ran a bunch of battery packs through it on some real awesome rocks. The truck is handling great and I am very impressed, it actually outclimbed my super on the slippery rocks. The bigger, wider tires on the super just don't get the traction that the cut mashers do. Also, I haven't spent as much time dialing in my super as I have my tuber. I ran it hard the whole time with many rollovers and hard hits, and the only thing I tweeked was a front shock mount.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/P9160050.jpg
The front diff is skipping a little, as it is well worn, so I will be changing it out for the hardened gears soon. All in all, I am real happy with the handling now. Here is the vid.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/iMovieTheater10.html

BTW, I simply attached the camera to my transmitter, and took video while driving, so excuse the shaky camera work. I really need to get a camera man:lol:

[tjscrogins99]

Very nice is that an actual hustler or your own build?

[2Crawlers]

I'm pretty sure it's his own build. Lonewolf whats the last song in your 2end video? Your tuber is looking unstoppable! "thumbsup"

[lonewolf039]

I'm pretty sure it's his own build. Lonewolf whats the last song in your 2end video? Your tuber is looking unstoppable! "thumbsup"

Ya, It's my own build. I began it when the Hustler was just coming out and there was no way to get one, so I built my own. It is slightly bigger in all dimensions than the Hustler chassis.

The second song in the video is "Hang on" by Seether, and thanks for the compliments.

[MudCow]

Very impressive little truck. I don't know how steep those climbs are but must be close to vert.

Also amazed by how those tyres hook up.

Nice work!

Cheers, JK

[lonewolf039]

Thanks, I really like the maxx mashers, they grip pretty good on most of the rocks around here. I modded them recently into 2.2's and now am working on the perfect combination of foam and weight again. I had the old combo pretty dialed, but wanted a bit more sidewall and better looks.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB120001.JPG
I cut the old tires off the rims and glued in some moab sidewalls, and then cut the centers out of a set of Axial beadlocks to get a better offset for the WK axles, plus I like the 14 mm hexes. The 12 mm hexes in the axials always round out on me. I epoxied the centers in place, and are holding up so far.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB120010.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB120004.JPG
I also made a pair of solid rear axles out of stainless.
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB140002.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB140004.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB140006.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB140007.JPG
http://homepage.mac.com/lonewolf039/.Pictures/Wheely%20King/PB150011.JPG

[MudCow]

I pinched a few of your ideas for my latest rig. Love the integrated servo / upper link mount.

Check out the battery mount I designed based on your axle mount idea:

http://thecrawlpit.com/forum/files/img_0987a_127.jpg

The rest of my buildup is here:

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95569

Again, nice work on the custom brackets etc. Very neat and compact. Much prefer this servo mount to the others getting around.

BTW, the stainless solid axles are V.nice. Great idea. Might pinch that as well LOL...

Cheers, JK

[lonewolf039]

Thanks MudCow, glad you like it. Feel free to pinch any ideas you want, that's what the board is for, the sharing of ideas. I don't know if the SS axle will be strong enough at the end where it goes into the diff. It might need some sort of heat treat to strengthen that part. BTW, I checked out your build and it looks sweet. I really like the sheet metal tuber idea. Looks pretty simple and tough.