Wheely King Transmission Details

[JIA's Dad]

The Wheely King Tranny has 4 gears inside:
1. located on the spur gear shaft is a 15 tooth gear (small end of tranny)
2 & 3. Located in the center on the center shaft both are 22 tooth and are separated with a spring this being the slipper gears (I did not disassemble these to look at them any closer) but this is where the clicking comes from when in a hard bind.
4. located on the out drives shaft is a 28 tooth gear
Below are some pics:
Note; only three gears are visible as the center gear has another directly beneath separated by the spring

PIC 1. gear location
PIC 2. cover w/ bearings
PIC 3. gears 2 & 3 with spring / slipper

I hope this helps better understand the WK tranny."thumbsup"



http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t186/JIAS_DAD/001-2.jpg


http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t186/JIAS_DAD/002-2.jpg


http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t186/JIAS_DAD/006.jpg

[cotharyus]

Excellent pictures, thank you! I was just wondering the other day if I was destroying a diff or something else because I was getting a click every time I tried to climb a rather slippery surface with good grippy ground at the bottom of it. Did the whole thing seem to be put together pretty well to you, or does it look like those of us getting ready to try to build something serious using WK drive trains are going to have problems?

[Natedog]

Great pics JIA'sDad! BTW in the first pic the little plastic bushing is still on the middle mount leg (the steering bellcrank rides on this in stock chassis). :)

Cotharyus, the WK tranny looks pretty sturdy inside except I would prefer an external slipper that can be adjusted easily. If yours is slipping too much you could shim the preload spring on the two middle gears...but you'll break axles easier. The slipper could also be completely eliminated by using a spacer between the gears, cross-drilling all three pieces, and then screwing/gluing it all together. Would then need to find an external slipper that will mount on the input shaft.

[JIA's Dad]

Guys, I just took the tranny apart again. I may be wrong but locking the tranny may be as simple as inverting the center two gears. What I'm trying to say is, if you remove the center gears and insert the assembly upside down. It will either slip worst and not pull or may lock it up by not allowing the spring to come into play. Reversing the springs rotation.

The tranny is very compact, the gears have very little play and have bearings on both ends. The gear on the spur shaft (small gear) has a pin same as in the drive nuts to the wheels. I would have to say it's very well built.

[frdtrkguy]

Ive beat on mine with 5.5 inch tall Red Rocks and the slipper does slip every once in a while but I find that it lets you put down plenty of torque before it slips. It could wear out over time. Also it seems to slip more after it slips the first time. BTW dont take it apart unless you plan to eliminate the slipper. It is a B**** to re-assemble"thumbsup"

[JIA's Dad]

Ive beat on mine with 5.5 inch tall Red Rocks and the slipper does slip every once in a while but I find that it lets you put down plenty of torque before it slips. It could wear out over time. Also it seems to slip more after it slips the first time. BTW dont take it apart unless you plan to eliminate the slipper. It is a B**** to re-assemble"thumbsup"

You have to be talking about the slipper assembly. It would be hard compressing the spring and replacing that small snap ring. Correct. Cause the rest is simple.

[lohocla]

great info to have. so JIA's Dad would say this tranny is a good one or what?
my backordered wk is on its way I think, I cant see another reaosn why my paypal would have been drained of 208 dollars automatically... I cant wait:-P :-P
I want this to be a bargain basement scale trail rig with stock elecs, k2-3s or homemade semi-scale chassis, venom 3300 and a 45t lathe on wk tranny. I was just hopin the tranny would be useable.

[cammok5]

they took out my money to and they are in stock now too. it should be hear soon.

[JIA's Dad]

Yes, I do believe this is a good transmission. Compact and also has bearings. I own 4 of them so far. I will have 4 projects when parts arrive, mine are back ordered also.

[lohocla]

comes with bearings... very good indeed.:mrgreen: compact also good.. I can see many wk builds in the future.. for the price and the great looking axles you cant go wrong"thumbsup"

yeah I was surprised to see my money gone so quick, I figured at least 1-2 weeks, only waited 3 days

[Double J]

What spur sizes come with the tranny? or can you use other spurs in it's place.

If I did my math correct it will have a 1.87:1 internal gear reduction.

So if you have say a 80t spur and a 12t pinion (6.67:1), you should end up with a 12.39:1 total gear reduction.

**Compair it to a XXX or stealth they average like a 2.3:1 internal gear reduction. When used with a, lets say 88t spur & 12t pinon (7.3:1) you will have a total gear reduction of 16.79:1 gear reduction.**

By the looks of the tranny you should be able to fit a larger spur and try to find a 10 or 8 t pinion to get more torque out of the tranny?


I'm just curious cause I don't have one (yet) and want to know more about the set up. When I get one, I plan on using the tranny so I'd like to do my homework before hand.

thanks

[Kranberry]

If I did my math correct it will have a 1.87:1 internal gear reduction.

So if you have say a 80t spur and a 12t pinion (6.67:1), you should end up with a 12.39:1 total gear reduction.

**Compair it to a XXX or stealth they average like a 2.3:1 internal gear reduction. When used with a, lets say 88t spur & 12t pinon (7.3:1) you will have a total gear reduction of 16.79:1 gear reduction.

:shock: how do you figue that out:?:,iam an idiot at math and gear stuff:?.

[JIA's Dad]

I put a 1/4 spacer under the transmission (tranny mounted on it's side not verticle, motor rotated 90 degrees) and use a 32 pitch 72 tooth spur gear and I have several pinion gears ranging from 6 to 9 tooth. I also have ran a 48 pitch 93 tooth with a 12 tooth pinion gear. So in my opinion there are several ways to modify the final gear ratio. Which gives everyone their own personal choice as to what they want to do. I will however be buying one of the new R2 transmissions when it is released later this month. Just to see how it works. They are good transmissions also, so I have been told. With the out drive adaptors that are available, changing from 5mm to 6mm seems to make using all types of trannies easy to use with the Wheely King axles. I would say it's a personal choice on what you do. Pedes, WKs, R2s, or whatever.

I think standard spur gear is 48 pitch 87 tooth!

[cotharyus]

Couple of comments:
Natedog - Yea, it's not really slipping easy, actually, I'm trashing it pretty hard. Read on.

Gearing? I'm running a 93 tooth spur (had to leave the cover off) and a 12 tooth pinion. Still running the stock motor with that gearing, and it seems to have gobs of torque to put down - I can easily dig both back wheels into the ground spinning them while trying to force the truck up and over something that it wouldn't even blink at if the front axle had guts. BTW, top speed geared like that is just faster than you can walk, still using stock tires.

[frdtrkguy]

You have to be talking about the slipper assembly. It would be hard compressing the spring and replacing that small snap ring. Correct. Cause the rest is simple.

That is the hard part! Stiff spring! I run my motor clocked 90 degrees and a 96/15 combo with a 65t lathe. I couldnt be happier with this setup!

[Double J]

:shock: how do you figue that out:?:,iam an idiot at math and gear stuff:?.


Well I didn't know for a while then I had to learn and a couple guys on here helped me out. Then I spoke to a place that makes gears and he filled in the blanks.

I don't remember at the moment (on the tip of my tongue) what the gear set up is called ( I think complex or something??) but we have to figure in two different gear ratios for our trannies.

But basically take the large gear and divide it by the smallest gear, doesn't matter how many are in the gears line. 2,3, 10 what ever.

In this case the larger gear is 28t and the smaller gear is 15t (doesn't matter what the middle gear is) 28 divided by 15=1.86666666 (1.87:1 gear ratio)

Then you take your second set of gears. In our case it would be the spur and pinion gear. we'll use a 90t and 8t pinion 90 div. 8t = 11.25 (11.25:1)

Now to get your total gear reduction for the tranny you multiply the 2 togeather.
1.87X11.25=21.0375 or 21.04 total gear reduction.

So like JIA's dad explained that he can get whatever gear reduction he wanted to by changing the Spur and Pinion. Larger Spur and Smaller Pinion = MORE TORQUE less speed.

But in the case of some of the trannies you are limited to your spur size because your output shafts would get in the way and the pinion can also be effected because the motor plate won't let you get close enough for a good mesh on the gears because of things getting in the way or won't adjust that far in...

Hope that helps and answered your question.?


JIA's DAD thanks for the run down it helps me out a bunch.

[TONKA TOY]

Couple of comments:
Natedog - Yea, it's not really slipping easy, actually, I'm trashing it pretty hard. Read on.

Gearing? I'm running a 93 tooth spur (had to leave the cover off) and a 12 tooth pinion. Still running the stock motor with that gearing, and it seems to have gobs of torque to put down - I can easily dig both back wheels into the ground spinning them while trying to force the truck up and over something that it wouldn't even blink at if the front axle had guts. BTW, top speed geared like that is just faster than you can walk, still using stock tires.


I am still running the stock 21t pinion & 90t spur gear with a b&b 55t motor, locked diff & stock tires, it stripped the pinion gear before it even thought about starting to slip. I am still 2wd (waitin on hpi to get their head outta thier arse). the rig was in a bind on more than one occasion & after about 10 attempts in a row, it finally stripped the screw outta the motor mount causing the motor to shift & the motor & gear mesh was mis-aligned causing the strippage. easy fix, bigger screw & dremel the motor mount plate. (motor itself does not have alot of adjustability-2 mounting holes only) they say you get what you pay for....... 2 motors for $20...... but other than that it has been a good motor.

[JIA's Dad]

DOUBLE J

Thanks I hope this helps everyone. Good info for all thanks for your input"thumbsup"

[JIA's Dad]

OK, FIXED IT pics are back

[JIA's Dad]

MORE INFO As for the clicking in the Wheely King tranny. After running the WK and having this clicking becoming a total problem and loosing power on climbs I finally decided to tear into the spring assembly/center gears of the tranny. The spring presses against a gear/plate which in turn meshes against the outer gear of the assembly. Making what I would call pressure plates out of the gear assembly. The gears when in a serious bind slip and the bumps/teeth ride over one another causing the clicking noise. Not doing any real damage. But over time the bumps/teeth have started to wear down. So the assembly slips easier and easier with less resistance. My solution was replace them as I have others. Another solution may be to glue them together? But what would be the next weakest link in the chain? NOTE I do not/DO NOT RECOMEND tearing this assembly apart for ROOKIES. Reassembly is hard!!!!!

[hairba11]

so while you had the tranny center slipper apart, did it look like you could change the gearing in the botom of the tranny? 15t pinion to stock 22t idler, attached to a for example 20t idler meshed to a 30t final gear? it looked like there may be a little room inside the tranny case for more reduction.
22/15=1.46 30/20=1.5 1.46*1.5= 2.2:1 instead of 1.87:1

or would it be worth the PITA to do it and make it work compared to doing a regular gear reduction box

[JIA's Dad]

The stock gears pretty much fill the space available. I just change the spur and pinion setups.

[hairba11]

it was just a thought. I have a 96t in there now, and with the 6.5" tall k'rocks, it is still closer to trail speed than crawler speed. i may have to do a little shaving and put the 13t pinion on. even then i dunno, maybe go for more than 55 turn?

[todd1803]

I nominate this thread for sticky. It's got a lot of good info.

[JIA's Dad]

OK, THE NEXT WEAKEST LINK. As I said before, the slipping had become a serious problem and yes I have replacement parts (3 more trannys). Since I am curious, I decided to JB weld to slipper clutch together. Well that stopped to slipping, but when I hung the truck up in some serious rocks at a comp yesterday I found the next weakest link. I TOTALLY stripped every tooth off the 15 tooth gear (the smallest gear) in the tranny. So if any of the vendors read this, WE NEED METAL GEARS MADE for replacements in the WK tranny. I did replace the gear and also replaced the slipper assembly, to allow slippage and ran the second course of the event to no avail again slipping seriously on some tough rocks and crevasses. It seams the tranny may be weaker than I originally thought, for the competitive rock crawling application.

[cammok5]

i think it be better just to buy a new trans than to put ouy money to make mettal gears for the stock trany. it aint like the trans gas a good cog anyway

[jeff jenkins]

i have been tinking that there has to be a lil bit of slip in the tranny to run the stock plastic gears.. but you have to lock up the clicker or else it sucks... i would suggest fitting a slipper clutch on the top shaft like a rc10gt.. this way it can be set tighter and still have a lil give for when you are seriously stuck... i have a feeling that this setup would not slip like the clicker because the clicker gives way to easily for crawling... its just an idea..

[todd1803]

I never even looked in the stock tranny, but it is possible to put in a heavier spring, or maybe even a piece of urethane that would still give, but would take more force to break free?

[JIA's Dad]

Possible but very hard. There are two C clips, one on the outside of each gear that fits in a grove on the shaft. Replacing the clips is hard as the spring tension is strong. It may be possible to get a stronger spring but since I bent the gears compressing the stock spring in order to replace the clips, I feel a stiffer spring would be extremely hard to install. Maybe a spacer, such as a washer may be a solution but due to space, hard to install. But still anything stronger (more pressure)in order to stop or limit the slipping means stripping the gears. As I have said this transmission may not be the best transmission for Rock Crawling. It seems to work well for the everyday bashing setups. And popping wheelies as it was designed to do. Please remember I have bought 4 Wheely Kings and I am a proud owner and supporter, I'm only posting my personal findings and opinions.
MY broken parts list so far, a broken steering bell crank, a broken steering arm, and a totally stripped 15 tooth tranny gear. Not a long list!!!!

[Natedog]

Put a spacer in between the two clicker (slipper) gears, then CA them all together...then fit a real slipper setup on the input shaft like Jeff Jenkins said...ie RC10, Losi, whatever fits. Time to start researching...lol! :)

[rockwerks]

Put a spacer in between the two clicker (slipper) gears, then CA them all together...then fit a real slipper setup on the input shaft like Jeff Jenkins said...ie RC10, Losi, whatever fits. Time to start researching...lol! :)

Lets bring this back up top

If we could find just the top input gear in metal, it would be then almost identical to all the other tranny's out there.

what pitch is the gears? maybe find something in my catalogs to replace the input gear

[crazie stephen]

i have a problem with the tranny i stripped the small 15t gear out. it never started the clicking at all. does anyone have a spare i can buy??

[rockwerks]

i have a problem with the tranny i stripped the small 15t gear out. it never started the clicking at all. does anyone have a spare i can buy??

th entire gear set from tower is only 8.00

[nigels_world]

I'm running a 93 tooth spur (had to leave the cover off) and a 12 tooth pinion. Still running the stock motor with that gearing

how are you doing that? my 14/96 combo puts the can all the way against the trans.

[getbent]

^^^ I have 96/13 on mine with a small amount of trimming on the tranny

[crazie stephen]

i am running a 9 tooth pinion and a 70 tooth spur on the stock motor and kept stripping out tranny gears until i burnt the motor up. i am hoping to get a 55t motor or use a gear reduction box. does anyone think the box will help if i still run thouse gears?:?:

[JIA's Dad]

I've ran 9 tooth pinion and a 72 tooth spur gear with a 450 park brushless motor for months in the Scorpion King without stripping out gears until I JB welded the slipper clutch. Can you tell me how your stripping gears? :?: Usually the slipper clutch handles that problem and slips.

[dezfan]

Doing some research for a buddy w/ a WK.

He is having the same issue w/ the clicking.

We talked about locking the gears together, but thought the small gear would become an issue (which it appears to be the case.) as the stress was transferred throughout the drive train.

I guess the real fix would be an upgraded set of internal gears and perhaps a spool?

I'll be keeping an eye open for updates.

[rockwerks]

Doing some research for a buddy w/ a WK.

He is having the same issue w/ the clicking.

We talked about locking the gears together, but thought the small gear would become an issue (which it appears to be the case.) as the stress was transferred throughout the drive train.

I guess the real fix would be an upgraded set of internal gears and perhaps a spool?

I'll be keeping an eye open for updates.


the clicking can also be coming from the rear axle. if the screws are loose of the gears improperly shimmed

[dezfan]

the clicking can also be coming from the rear axle. if the screws are loose of the gears improperly shimmed

No, we have isolated it to the tranny.

Disassembled the tranny and discovered the exact set up JIA's Dad described.

[rockwerks]

No, we have isolated it to the tranny.

Disassembled the tranny and discovered the exact set up JIA's Dad described.


just thinking out loud. the tranny can click for along time before any real issue, I have one that has been making noise since day one. no real major effects, I have contacted severall guys about making gears for this little tranny, and RC4WD said they are working on it also

[dezfan]

just thinking out loud. the tranny can click for along time before any real issue, I have one that has been making noise since day one. no real major effects, I have contacted severall guys about making gears for this little tranny, and RC4WD said they are working on it also


This one is being uses in a Monster truck set up.

W/ the slightly larger tire and longer WB, there is a much greater load being transferred to the drive train.

[rockwerks]

This one is being uses in a Monster truck set up.

W/ the slightly larger tire and longer WB, there is a much greater load being transferred to the drive train.


mine is in my 2.2 crawler.

[JIA's Dad]

This one is being uses in a Monster truck set up.

W/ the slightly larger tire and longer WB, there is a much greater load being transferred to the drive train.

I think there are several people working on trying to make or find gears to go in the WK tranny. I for one am with you guys, I would like to see it with a set of steel gears, then I could break the drive yokes.:lol:

[crazie stephen]

well i found out why i was stripping out gears. i had more mud the oil in my rear diff apparently the screws backed out a little and i had the truck in the mud up to the windows. so i just ordered new gears and got a camera so hopefully i will be able to get some pic's up of us crawling here in tyler

[sharpe351]

I've got the gocforsaken click, but it isn't the trans.... it's the rear diff. (smoked) got 2 new gearsets coming, and the steel set is on backorder.

[rockwerks]

well i found out why i was stripping out gears. i had more mud the oil in my rear diff apparently the screws backed out a little and i had the truck in the mud up to the windows. so i just ordered new gears and got a camera so hopefully i will be able to get some pic's up of us crawling here in tyler


Mudding an RC is no different than mudding a real rig, you gotta tear it down after your mudding day is done.

Im allergic to mud:lol:

[nigels_world]

I've got the gocforsaken click, but it isn't the trans.... it's the rear diff. (smoked) got 2 new gearsets coming, and the steel set is on backorder.


make sure you shim them....

[The Real Dogman]

I think this this will improve the Wheely King Tranny packaging and clicking issues, using oem parts..I even made room for better pinion to spur mesh See Red Arrow So far only 3"w x 2 1/2"h x 3/4"d with plate I would say that was fairly compact..

[The Real Dogman]

Here ya go fellas, That's what I managed to whittle today!!

It's all WK parts besides the case!!!

[Offroader5]

Wanna make me a couple? "thumbsup"

[rockhugger]

that's it, that is exactly what the WK tranny needs. Nicely done, it's too bad HPI didn't do this design from the start.

ARe you going to sell these?

[Natedog]

that's it, that is exactly what the WK tranny needs. Nicely done, it's too bad HPI didn't do this design from the start.

ARe you going to sell these?

Schweet and X2! "thumbsup"

[deadmechanic69]

i have destroyed the inner gears in my tranny i know the rebuild kit is 13 dollars but does anybody know of a metal gear set or a gear down conversion:?:

[Locked Up]

Can anyone tell me what pitch the internal tranny gears are and what size the shafts the center 22t gears ride on?

My research has gotten me this far:

25t rides on a 5mm shaft

28t rides on a 6mm shaft

The 22 looks like it rides on a 3 or 4 mm shaft because of the bearings around it. They are 5mm ID but there is a collar that goes between the bearing & the shaft and I can't tell how big it is.

[The Real Dogman]

The internal gears are 32pitch

I have been experimenting with spur and pinions to get a better ratio to use the Crawlmaster with and I think I have found a set that works very well but a comp this weekend will tell the story...

[Locked Up]

The internal gears are 32pitch

I have been experimenting with spur and pinions to get a better ratio to use the Crawlmaster with and I think I have found a set that works very well but a comp this weekend will tell the story...
EDIT:

I was planning on going to all 48p gears but I can't find a 44t 48p. Even if I could, they may be off a little since the 48p & 32p gears are all different diameters (I can explain more but it doesn't matter)


Would it do me any good to change all the gears but the largest to metal? I can find 15 & 22 tooth gears that are 32p, but no 28t.

[The Real Dogman]

Sure you can change them to 48p if you can find the right dia and mesh with the given case dimensions unless you are doing a totally new case with new dimensions.
The pinion and spur being 48p limits the possible ratios somewhat since I have not been able to find any Spurs bigger than 96T 48P..

[Locked Up]

Sure you can change them to 48p if you can find the right dia and mesh with the given case dimensions unless you are doing a totally new case with new dimensions.
The pinion and spur being 48p limits the possible ratios somewhat since I have not been able to find any Spurs bigger than 96T 48P..

I must have been editing as you typed.

Would it do me any good to have all but the largest be metal? I can find 15t & 22t metal gears in a 32p, just not the 28t. Not that I have looked too hard.

Reason being I'd liketo eliminate the slipper clutch, but I read that it has been tried and resulted in the stripped 15t gear. So if I made that metal, the next weak link be the 22t and so on. But ... aren't the teeth on the larger gear goingto be stronger in that they have more contact area?

[ClaySlayer]

make sure you shim them....

shim where?

[Eric Perez]

I think the "shim" comment was related to the bevel gears inside the axle -not to the transmission. HPI Replacement gears for the axles come with shims, so you can re-use the old shims and double up behind the small beveled pinion gear to tighten the gear mesh some more.

[The Real Dogman]

Are you freaking kidding me?? Member since Aug 2005 and this is your first post??!!?? holy crap talk about lurking!!!

[Eric Perez]

Are you freaking kidding me?? Member since Aug 2005 and this is your first post??!!?? holy crap talk about lurking!!!

Never too late to jump in... bought a WK 4X4 as soon as I read the HPI convertion article. I ran the WK once, started doing the convertion...a year later, finally finished converting into a crawler and I have to admit this crawling thing is fun!

Eric

[The Real Dogman]

Nice!! Glad to hear!! You know you have a couple crawlers down your way! Look up Neil E Here. I think he is Fort Worth,,, I think!!

Glad you are having fun and dare I say you are hooked like a whore on crack??

[BIG PETE]

hi all i been lurking for a while to
are these gears any good or have i wasted my money i should get them delivered in a few days
http://www.ckrccrawlers.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_22&products_id=922

[Maggster]

hi all i been lurking for a while to
are these gears any good or have i wasted my money i should get them delivered in a few days
http://www.ckrccrawlers.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_22&products_id=922

I've got them in my WK. So far (about 4 months) I really like them.

[ClaySlayer]

hmmm...looks like they've gone up ~$10 since I bought my set. Anything different about these other than the price? Looks like I've about wore out my first set of these and will either get another set of these or change to an R2.