Torque twist with 4link
 

So I have a 4 link plate on the front and on the rear of my ax10 and on tcs's site they say mount the drivers side link ON TOP of the 4link plate and the passengers side on bottom. Here is the link: http://www.tcscrawlers.com/TCS-Delri...g-p-16526.html

My question is do they recommend that for the FRONT 4link mount or for the rear one? If it is for the front, would you do opposite for the rear and have the drivers side UNDER and the passengers side mounted OVER the plate? What is the correct setup for front and for rear if I want to put one over and one under the mounting plate?

you would only need to do it on the rear of the truck

Tech Tip: Trucks with driveshafts have a negative effect created by the driveshaft called torque twist. You can help reduce this with these mounts by mounting the links as described here. In the back, install the driver's side upper link on top of the plate. The passenger side is mounted underneath. This asymmetrical set up should help alleviate torque twist. You should be able to run the stock scorpion springs without any pre-load on them. Put the travel limiters inside the shocks to lower the truck. Those changes should dial in your suspension and greatly improve your trucks performance.


it doesn't mention the front, and maybe try the travel limiters inside the shocks too!

I have the same setup on mine too. I just put the left link on the rear on top and put the right one on bottom. Then we went out this past weekend and the twist was better but on the steep climbs it still liked to pull the right front tire up a lot. That was with the soft red springs all the way around. So I took a set of green medium springs and put at the left rear and right front and so far it seems to be better. Will know for sure this weekend.

I used my old lower links for my uppers. I would say that it reduced my torque twist by 80%. Here are some pics.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...Ax10a007-1.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...0/Ax10a008.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...Ax10a011-1.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...0/Ax10a013.jpg

When you put the stock lower links in the upper spot did you have to shorten the links?

You have to drill a new upper link hole in the chassis (3rd pic. down).

The stock uppers are too short. Suspension tech (1:1 scale) recommends that upper links be 70-80% of the length of the lower links. Stock straight links are 98mm, so if you're using those, the uppers should be 69-78mm. The stock uppers are only 55mm.

Yah, I had to cut like 5mml off to get the correct drive shaft angle. So that would be like 93mm uppers.

Thats true what browncoat is sayin, but all I know is it works good for me at 93mm. I wonder if it would be better at 78mm. That means i would have to drill 2 more holes in my chassis. I would guess it reduced my torque twist by at least 50%. I tested it before and after.

That tech tip on TCS was something I concocted after some reading and trial and error. It goes back to a big long thread on here about Anti Squat and torque twist. I got the idea from Jaguar. It was proven effective, but not the end all means to remove torque twist on these shafty trucks.

I tried it on the front and found no noticeable change, even trying a spacer to exaggerate the effect it might have.

I'd consider it to be more of a fine tuning option, than one that makes a large change. Like a sway bar on a race car. You need to get the big items ironed out like spring rate and damper characteristics and then use a small diameter sway bar to fine tune. Same kinda thing here. Get the springs and oil figured out, and try it out to see if it makes any difference. It did for me.

For the record, I'm using Axial's red coded super soft springs all around, two Axial shock spacers inside the shocks, stock lower and upper links, and I have dang near zero twistage.

8)

Are you still running the backwards transmission EeePee? http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial-ax-10-scorpion/110323-mirror-imaged-transmission.html
Thought that was a good idea, so I am building my first crawler that way...

With the soft springs, do you experience any leaning what so ever duriring crawling?
When you go up a steep incline, no twisting off the rock?
What oil are you using?
This is the first time i heard somebody running stock suppension and claim there is little twist.

So you basicly cut your shock travel in half. This will compress the springs, so by doing that you have increased your spring rate. I wonder how much softer they are now then stock after putting in two axial shock spacers in each shock?

Do you still have enough articulation?

With my 4-link the I am getting some body roll but not a bad as my buddies. HE has the 3-link still but with longer upper links. He has tried a few different spring options and cant get rid of the body roll. It is really bad on his. I am gonna try to extend my uppers and see how that does. What would be the advantage to going to a heavier oil? I am running the green medium springs in the rear and the red soft up front.

I run 101mm 30° bent lowers, 55mm standard uppers with a home-made 4-link servo plate.

My test is to slowly crawl up a plank of wood which is covered in glass-paper. Up a 65° incline my front-right tyre just starts to lift off the plank, but only by about 5mm

I am running 101mm bent lowers, and 93mm 4link uppers, stock springs in rear.
Here is a pic going up a 65°-70° incline. FIrst one is foward no twist, and second going backwards w/twist.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...1/Ax10a037.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...1/Ax10a036.jpg

I sure am, as are a few of the local crawlers and they all say it's good, as do I. Not backwards, but mirrored. "thumbsup"

Pretty much, nope.

My truck can outclimb just about everyones in the area. Everything is mounted below the tops of the tires, and forward. All my electronics are mounted on the front axle, and my total wheel weight is greater than the entire rest of the truck.

Stock Axial 30 weight.

If it did increase the spring rate, it's not by alot, as preload doesn't really increase the spring rate by much, but moreso puts the coils into a bind. Technically called, coil bind.

I think so, I can put a tire underneath the lifted tire. It's a full on comp truck, and I don't like a lot of articulation.

I gotta stress this: The whole thing needs to be tuned to work together to get the best performance. The link geometry, the shocks, the springs, the weight of the tires, I mean everything. And I have spent more time tuning the truck than most normal people do. But it pays off, especially this year with three wins and a few second place finishes.

"thumbsup"

EeePee for President!
"thumbsup"

How come you didn't tell me about the mirrored motor? I'll have to do that now...maybe it'll keep me from flipping over backwards on that nasty incline at Cowboy's next time. Maybe.