is this Torque twist???? I know... I am a newbe

[ElkySS]

I have noticed over the last few comps that any time I get the front lower than the back I can no longer use reverse. If I try to one of the rear (drivers side if I remember right) will raise up in the air. Depending on how much of a decline I am on, it will threaten a roll over. If it is a steep enough one (like the start of #2 this weekend) it will do it even when I am moving forward. Is this due to the rims, weights, geometry of the links, rear springs, or something else I can't even picture.

I am not sure if it is the same issue but I also can't do a reverse dig. I end up with the same sort of deal, one tire way up in the air.

The front springs are the softer ones that came in the CKRC stage 2 kit and the rears are the stock ones.

And in a total side bar, I think I may ditch the el camino body. I love it but I notice that it really does not want to right itself once it does end up on its lid.

[1mopar]

yeah u r dealing with torque twist i dont remember wut i did to fix it but thats wut it is

[ElkySS]

Kewl. Not sure what I am going to do either. I am running the stock 3 link upper, but I did change the lowers a bit. I put spacers where the links and shocks would normally go and moved the links inside a bit. If I remember right I did that because the stage 2 instructions said to. Think it would help to move the links out and get them closer to the tires? I tried to put the shocks inside but then they hit the links to much and would not work right. Always open to ideas and if you need pics I can do that as soon as I get home. I am at work on my phone so I can't really post any.

[rc4x4crawler]

You need to put a 4 link in the rear and maybe a stiffer spring on the driver rear side.

[ElkySS]

Originally Posted by rc4x4crawler

You need to put a 4 link in the rear and maybe a stiffer spring on the driver rear side.

Any sugestions on either? I think I like the tcs 4 link. Do you know of a "bag o springs?" I was looking for a large selection of springs so I could just play with different setups. Or will I just have to order a few of each spring rate? Do you happen to know what one is stock so I know what a harder one would be?

Like I said I am on my phone so I hope all of that is what I ment to say. LOL.

[hitman46mod]

To greatly reduce torque twist you need to lower your rig and get your upper and lower links parallel to each other. The twist is caused by binding of the drive line through sharp pinion angles. Then the binding is transfered through the chassis, creating lift at opposite end. Flatting out the drive line and equalizing the links will dramaticly reduce torque twist. Here is a pic of my comp rig the links are nearly even with each other and the pinion angles are near zero. I have to climb up around 70 degrees before I even get a hint of twist. And I run a droop setup. And I stiil have 2 3/8 ground clearance.

[tbizzle]

I would flip the shocks upside down (this way they will not bind, when you flip them you will see what i am talking about) and then outbound them, this should reduce the twist some. I have some torque twist going backwards
Here is a pic of my rear setup, i would do this for the front. Try it and see if it helps, report back.

[tbizzle]

When going up i will loose traction most of the time before it twists. Here is my setup for the rear.




I hope this helps, remember do whatever works for you.

[hitman46mod]

In a sprung rig that will help as well. It gives the shock more leaverage on the axle.

[juststartin]

If it is a sprung rig: add heavier weight shock oil and stiffen spring rate in the rear. My motor hangs out quite a bit of my chassis and I run 60 wt oil and firm springs in the rear. I dont have any torque twist and still have plenty of articulation.

If droop rig: add heavier weight shock oil all around and maybe even run internal springs.

[ElkySS]

Here are a few of my rig now that I am home.

Links are level


Pinion angle looks good to me (but I am pretty new to this) It gets a little tight at the top with the VF Dig but not bad.


Shocks are flipped but running in the center of the stock position. The lower links are then pushed inward. I guess moving them out might help but last time I ran into problems with them hitting my shocks.


Another pic of the bottom.


I hope this helps clear up what I was trying to say above. From the looks of the pictures you guys posted above moving the links to the outside of the shocks is the biggest difference. I will have to mess with it some more I guess but like I said I had issues with it last time.

From these (and any other angles that you all may need to help out the new kid on the block) do you see anything else that would help out. I just know that after 3 comps I am sick of being the one that always ends up on my lid trying to clear gates. lol.

This pic is not exactly what I am running into, but it is from one of the comps we had last month. It was a pretty tame climb but as soon as my fronts hit it my rear went up in the air. This is what worries me about stiffer springs in the rear. The fronts are really soft (not sure which ones they are but they came with the ckrc stage 2) and the rear springs are the stock ones. If I put one in the back that is even harder than the stock ones, isn't it just going to make this part worse while possibly helping with the Torque twist?

[Phatmac]

if your uppers are long enough, try moving them in 2-holes on the chassis, otherwise take a (5-6mm) spacer and add it to the single-side of the 3 link connector and use a longer hex head to effectively lengthen the lowers.

You will lose a little pinion angle, but you should see an improvement with links that are closer to ideal lengths (uppers 70% - 80% length of the lowers in 1:1s).

I've been able to tune out almost 90% of the stock axial twist using the 3-link. I'm now working on a double-triangulation 3 link to see if I can eliminate it altogether.

On the stock axial chassis, I'm thinking that the ideal set-up is a 4-link rear and 3-link front, but I haven't given up on the 3-link just yet.

[Phatmac]

I looked at your pictures a little further, and it looks like you have a lot of weight on your chassis, here are a few additional suggestions:

1. Move the sidewinder to the front uppers, make a lexan or aluminum plate and get that weight off the side you're twisting to.

2. Toss that Axial battery plate, too much weight up high.

3. I don't have a good idea about what type of battery you're running or where it's mounted. I think I see a Traxxas connector up front. Can you clairify your set-up.

4. Is your receiver on the left side of your chassis? Find a spot for that too.

5. It's a stopgap, but I like to play with the kit preload spacers to do 2 things: test the effect of additional spring rate on twist, and raise the front end, because it likes to droop with and I've found that a level rig works better.

[ElkySS]

I am just going to start trying to answer and respond to the two post above. Sorry if it is a lot of stuff.

Phatmac

I know I need to move the ESC up front but the wires were not long enough and I did not have any more to lengthen them. If you think that I part of it I should be able to run somewhere and get some. I guess I could just solder the new wire to the old and then to the motor.

I will go get rid of that stock plate now. I did not figure it would be that big of a deal but I am looking for advise and I will definitely take it.

I bought a rustler VXL as my first electric car. I put a maxamps 5000Mah in it with the traxxas connector. So when I was building this I wanted to go with a Maxamps lipo as well. To save on equip that I would have to lug around I went ahead and put a traxxas high current on this as well. Then all I need is my one AC/DC charger and didn't need to worry about any extra connectors and stuff. It is mounted on my front axle with the steering servo.

I was having some problems with glitching. Somebody had mentioned getting my ESC and my receiver as far away from each other as I could. So I dropped the ESC on the rear left and the Rx on the front right. I would rather have the ESC and the Rx mounted lower and upfront, but it was the only way I could limit the glitches.

I could try some preloaders on the front and I guess on the right rear to see if that helps.

I will go look into moving the uppers now. while I am getting rid of the other stuff. Right now I do have some small spacers in the uppers. They are the black pieces in the third and fourth pictures from my last post. Is there where you were saying to add them or did you mean on the other side of the 3 link where it attaches to the axle?


I was just working on it a few minutes ago and I moved the lower links way out side just to see if I could tell any difference. Moving them out as far as I did might have had the same effect as where they were.

Here is what I just did.


Since it has been raining so much here in Tulsa, I backed it up a lid in my living room and it did the same thing. These are not the best pictures because I could not find a really good angle to catch it at.



It is not even that steep of an angle and that left rear is still just shooting up in the air.

Now time to go get back to work on it. Thanks for all the help guys.

[ADDICT]

Originally Posted by hitman46mod

To greatly reduce torque twist you need to lower your rig and get your upper and lower links parallel to each other. The twist is caused by binding of the drive line through sharp pinion angles. Then the binding is transfered through the chassis, creating lift at opposite end. Flatting out the drive line and equalizing the links will dramaticly reduce torque twist. Here is a pic of my comp rig the links are nearly even with each other and the pinion angles are near zero. I have to climb up around 70 degrees before I even get a hint of twist. And I run a droop setup. And I stiil have 2 3/8 ground clearance.

+1k. This is what alot of comp rigs, including all of mine are doing to the upper link setup. I have the same thing with the links and run droop up front and sprung in the rear w/ rcp internal medium springs. got perfect GC @ 2 7/8". Good Luck.

... Mainly play with your shocks and go 4-link.. there. lol

[jcnalley]

Do you have any weight in your wheels? I would say that part of your problem is that you have no weight on the front. In the picture the angle is not that bad, but look how heavy the rear of your truck is. I would suggest also moving your battery to the front end,get it as low as possible. Mine is mounted right on top of the servo and upper links.

[tbizzle]

Here are some pics of my rig. The first one is going fowards on the incline and the second is going backwards on the incline. You saw in my earlier posts about the way i did my 4 links. Actually the bottom links are 101mm and my tops are 93mm, probably needs to be more like 80mm. But what i have now seems to work pretty good. I think this is a70° incline, What do you guys think?

[papasmurf]

Try adding one of the thick spring spacers on the shock opposite the one lifting.

[ElkySS]

I just went back and re did a lot of it from what was mentioned up there. I got rid of the stock batter plate up top, moved the upper links in two holes, I managed to move the ESC forward but because of the wires I could not get it much lower, moved the RX to the front upper links, and rewired the entire rig. The wires are not where I want them yet but I just wanted to see if this did any better.

So here is where I am now.
Sorta hard to see here but The ESC is mounted on the cross member (or what ever it is called) at the top. I had to do that because if I put it anywhere else the wires going to the motor hit the spur.


Moving the rear uppers in did move the pinion angle. looks like it might be a little tight now.


Here is how it sits now. I have always had my battery on my front axle, but I did push everything else forward a lot. I have 7.5oz in my fronts and 0 in the rears. I am running the rockhammer hybrid foams (#5 in the rear and #8 in the front) so I am not sure if that is why it looks heavy in the rear or not but all of the weight I can find it up front now.


I backed up the same incline and the same tire went back up in the air.


It looks to be just as high as it was. I guess I will order up a 4 link and play with springs and/or preloaders.

[ElkySS]

So which 4 link do you think would work best? [url=http://www.tcscrawlers.com/TCS-Aluminum-Upper-Link-Servo-Mount-for-Axial-AX-10-Scorpion-1-each-US-Patent-Pending-p-16613.html]These from TCS[\url] or [url=http://www.rcpcrawlers.com/product.php?productid=791&cat=29&page=2]these from RCP?[\url]