Madkoifish's New crawler (slow build)

[Madkoifish]

Well I went down to Auburn (Cali not Wa)with my old Ti-TLT crawler, promptly snapped off my C's and the servo mounts tore out etc, the old TLT axles just have gotten brittle over the years. So without a crawler I met up with a bunch of guys running AX-10s. I had planned to replace the TLT axles at some point with some other brand. I was excited over the Losi rig. But with advice from LHC and other crawlers, I was lead back to the good ol AX-10. Seeing a creeper at the LHS was tempting but the drop in price to 180$ had me wondering what support or reliability there was for it. I got a Orange one since they had no kits in stock.

Right now I have been fooling mostly with set up. I bought arms lower links and a few other items. Only things I have fabbed up are 4 link plates out of leftover Boeing "titanium alloy" I think it is a ti nickle blend, it really rings when it hits concrete and doesn't heat up like ti alum alloys, it is very stiff though and slightly springy. (w/e it works and is stiffer than 6061 from ace)

Im starting this thread to get some feed back and opinions, In the auburn area aired tyres were the hot thing. As well as HEAVY crawlers. I think most of the rigs were in the 8lb range. I know the experience was very different than Here in Seattle so, many of the things I have on my rig will have to change. But I might be returning to Auburn to live. So who knows. I did experience how different crawling was in different areas from Seattle to Oregon, Tahoe, Auburn, Sacramento and San Jose.

Upgrade paths:
Chassis:

• Plans are to dump the stock chassis. Either it be a tuber or TVP or a hybrid. I am not sure yet. The thing I do want is something NARROW. I really like the chassis in this post. I also need to find out what body that is, the Parma bug I have now has kinks to replicate the real cars seam lines, which are right where tall overhanging rocks rub so it self cuts the side panels off the body. My old Ti was fairly narrow and I liked how it cleared things and felt over the wider stock AX10. I really like the tuber look but Im seeing that they seem to be aimed less at comp then TVP chassis. I need to replace the Axel C's and alum rear caps (to rid the slop that's been building up over time. Things have changed in crawling so much over the last 4 years, you could so easily just off the shelf an entire rig without any fab or shop time. not sure how I feel about it but it was nice to keep going after my old rig exploded on me.

Electronics:

• I plan to get a goat system soon, since my old 55 seems to be acting up and the old LRP esc seems to have lost some BEC resulting in an erratic servo etc. (I hope it isn't the RX TX) I do worry about the Goats can length, and any possible narrow chassis plans. Since all of my electronics are OLD, even the new stuff is OLD and this is a issue. So a lot of upgrades are having to back seat to electronics buys. The old FM Futaba seems to dislike sites with bridges around, annoying trims etc. Hoping to afford the 300$ for a DX3 (s or r) Have to research what the differences are since there is a fairly large cost diff. I also am looking at li-pos of some sort to get the batt on the front axle. The cost of the lipos seem cheaper than getting new ni-mh cels to build saddles or a stack.(most of my batts are crapped up) I just need to know what balancer I need for my 989. Last electronic buy would probably be replacing my hitec 5645mg, but this depends on if the sluggish response is just the servo or my BEC. It is slow and just has no beef to steer while parked.

I might run a dig, I would like a comp rig, but I am not sure if I would pursue anything outside just bashing. I guess the type would depend on the chassis direction I go.

Ok now that I have written a wall of text on upgrades here is the crawler.

Aired Rovers with lead inside and proline (?) 2 stage foams. The links are in backwards since most of the rigs were like this in Auburn. Not seeing any of it here on the site so, I am unsure if there is a benefit to it. There was less axle crawl and axle damage. The silly springs are mostly to avoid a huge stack of spacers to retain the main springs and not any attempt at "progressive rate". I also lengthened the servo link after seeing the article here. (seems to help the servo)
I have since added custom 4 link plates relocated the upper link holes and modded the lower skid to inboard the lower links. I need to order some longer axial links to clean the links up (less pile of spacers all over)

I am currently looking at lowering it some say to 2.6" or so I might return to the 3 link uppers on the front.
Oh and a set of dollar tree book lights (thanks Dave) For night crawling. I also have a set of key chain leds with lockable switches from Rebies (basically a NAPA) They come in red blue green and white. I was introduced to night crawling in Auburn since there was some nice trails near the house. Prior to this I never thought about doing such a thing. Quite fun Especially if your running a trail you have never seen during the day time. I really enjoyed this as well as the run near the American river. Water and Crawling is always fun.

Auburn set up, and horrible bounced light from the street. Mess of decals that mean nothing now. :O

Side view showing the patch work to cover a million mounting holes in a 4yr+ body. (I need a new body)

Night crawling!

Top view showing the electronics layout

rear end showing the aft 4 link plate. Made this mostly for something to do VS buying a part.

Shows front blocks. Venom, I know I should have used stock and mail ordered better knuckles 3weeks later when I got back to Seattle. 14$ brain fart.

Bottom showing skid mods. I later cut more off the narrow the links more. (motor gets in the way so I have to resource delrin or buy a plate later. Depends on what chassis I finally decide on)

Ride height. A bit tall I suppose.

side view. Shows the reversed links. They are bent in towards the Drive shafts for side clearance. I have since reversed the rear links for clearance.

Just under 12.5" should be 12.5 once I lower it some with my old bigbores or spacers.

Front servo plate (kinda ugly and only 3 link choices will be replaced when I do batt on axle.)

Scary artic, I need to work on this. Everything I have tried stiffens it too much or reduces the on the rocks movement so I end up with a wheel in the air or a flipped rig.

back of the pack, camera + radio makes for a slow driver.

Here are some images of the old chassis and axles, it is in the stages of being shortened from the old 12.5" to a more 1/10 scale wb so , links shocks etc were not what I had when I was running this. I planned to convert this into a scaler, either just junking it all except the axles and tranny, but with these tlt parts breaking left and right and the costs to beef them up is costly and requiring a lot of mods I might just junk it all and keep the losi tranny and get some axles from a sc10 or some other brand vs replacing the cases. But this is the AX10 board so I will take her to a appropriate board on the site when I get to that build. I expect this one to be more enjoyable since most of it will be custom work. even with all those pre-made blister pack accessories that they have now.

Nasty electronics.

Rear plate and a grand bodge job on the broke parts.

doubt this will work for a scaler. Shows extensions for rear shocks (don't have anything the right length) And it shows the rear tranny brace. Losi tranny lack any real hard mounts.

Uglier bodge job, but worked better.

[LeDevil]

Looks pretty cool, but then again almost anything with a bug body looks good

[Madkoifish]

Here is the old TLT on some granite in Tahoe from June 30th of 05 it had the old pede tranny and polygon shaped chassis then.







Run bugs for ages, Mostly on my losi's and a few custom minis. But this time Im thiking that losi truck body or one of the other crawler specific bodies. I still want to locate that Bug shown on that other link above. Has no ugly aft motor and no trim mold details all smooth so no lexan to scratch through. Top of my old bug is full of automotive shoe goo to keep it from flapping about ir getting full of weeds or moss.

[Madkoifish]

Ordered these last week, much improved over my old LRP, the hotwire is kinda pointless right now but maybe in time I will find it of more use.




I also made these a few days ago, I was tiring of the side posts and how often they'd hook on things. The body is a bit floppy but not too horrible. Yeah, I probably could have just bolted the posts to the U brackets that normally hold the battery plate. Wish I could find delrin locally that isn't a thin sheet, would have preferred it to the alum.


And yes, I still have yet to mod my bigbores, just unsure about sending those through the bandsaw. I need to find my old hobby saw to go at it. Probably use some revo ends since I'm sorta out of 4-40 / m3 ends.

Looking at bodies lately and debating between that Losi one and the CrCK bug (if it is still available)

[fernando]

Cool looking rig and a great spot to crawl.

[Madkoifish]

Thanks, I cannot wait to get back down there, nothing better than some nice bedrock to crawl on. With the changes I have made my "piles" here just do not challenge anymore. I cannot re-arrange most of it due to it being part of a planting bed OTL.

I have a question to field. I have looked at a tonne of chassis and still am unsure which would fit me.
Looking at the
MFM Black Widow 39$

Mayhem Eng. LS2.0 (colour choices = headache)

Krawler Hobbies Hakuja (not fond of the closeness of the lower shock holes)

I like the upper link options on the last 2, but the BW is just so "simple" Hakuja I worry about needing shortie shocks and the length of it.
Question related to 2 of these chassis too is how well does powder coating hold compared to anno etc?

There are a few others I looked at as well. I really like the hybrid tubers but finding those tend to be heavy, and I don't look forward to experiencing breaking parts due to weight. Primary things I'm looking at are triangulated lowers, narrow chassis, low chassis, and the ability to run a DIG. Oh the SWX isn't on there since like EVERYONE has it. And I would like to go for something different. Nothing saying I couldn't change my mind later on though. Oh have to mention I have no interest in torsion rigs. I am too abusive and will snap those thins, such includes any delrin chassis.

I know many would say BUILD ONE issue is It looks like I will be moving in 2 months and will not have a garage for a shop anymore and well I don't think a bandsaw in a condo with drill press will go over well. DOUH. And I doubt I will have time in those 2 months to design proto and cut it. Though I might go this route just for the hell of it. Cut my first chassis with a coping saw.

[urban]

i love my mayhem

[KrawlOff-Road.com]

I love my Hakuja.... well I guess I am supposed to say that. It offers a great lightweight and stable platform to build many rigs off of both shafty and MOA. What conserns you with the clossness of the shock mounting holes? I could see a problem with breakage if it was delrin or other plastic, but the aluminum will not give and will not have this issue. Which ever way you decided to go, the rig looks great and I am liking the parts that you are making yourself. Looks like you are putting a lot of time and effort into this rig and I like that!!

-Jason

Oh, I think you might need another computer monitor... don't think you have enough yet....

[Madkoifish]

Mostly cause I have pulled out screws in alum in the past. I have had to put the chassis buy on hold for now since cash just got really tight.

Update, well not much of one. I got this strange slippy plastic from tap ages ago when I was looking for delrin on some other project. It is very slippy more so than delrin, it mills and cuts really smooth. One could spend a whole day turning this stuff into shavings. Anyhoo after cutting up one for my scaler (if you could call that pile of alloy a scaler) I had some left over and felt the AX needed one too. Stock part is where I always got stuck. Sitting there spinning around on the rock. I also cut up some random translucent plexi into a junky rear batt mount. Plans are to go with lipo once I have enough saved up for the charger and a few packs.

As you can see nothing special. I don't however trust this stuff enough to mount my links. I have though shifted my transmission inward so the shafts are closer to center thus clearing the links. Goal I hope is to triangulate the junk on the transmission side. This might not happen with the shaft clearances. I ran this on my old junker rig and liked how it worked. I guess I could have narrowed the chassis by 10mm or so but I didn't want to deal with link screw clearance and cutting down the chassis stand offs for now.

I am looking for a new body, since the one I have now is from early 2005. Looking at the 2 grapplers from losi I like the pro but hear it comes with prepunched holes. Something I don't want at all. Current body is full of patched up holes AUGH. And the Proline bug, the one with the ugly motor off the back. I think I will end up with another bug since the standard grappler looks to be a bit wide in the front and back. I plan to add this onto the body, not sure if I will do cel style painting or just airbrush it via masks. I found most of my lexan paints have congealed in the bottles like cheese, water around a lump of pigment. So I might be left with this toxic cel paint (liquid vinyl) or acrylics. Both do ok, the cel paint bonds better than any lexan paint I have ever used. It is just very touchy airbrushes horribly and is expensive as hell. Not to mention hard to get now.

sample of a complete body

[Rockies26]

I have the Black Widow and love it here some pics of mine



Hope it helps you

[Madkoifish]

The nightmare of electronics plauges me still.
A new radio:

Think the old one had pots going south it is a old magnumT3PDF (12+ yrs)
A new servo:

Old one freaked out and refused to center and other strange things. This new servo affected my driving style the most and took the longest to get used to! 160oz to 400oz lol no more rolling turns.
and a BEC:

To stop the esc shut downs due to servo gluttony

Something no one mentioned is how a strong servo would cause all the issues I had. ESC shutdowns etc. The BEC seems to have solved this throttle seems a lot better and the radio is great too except the lack of BACKLIGHT.

So other changes to the crawler:

Ruddy CRCK high steer links. Ok I they are not the VP 0 ackerman hubs. I got these on a lark and well wish I had waited. Finish quality is poor (lots of bad machining marks and poor fit) Nothing a bit of bodging couldn't fix. Issue I find most is the arms are trimmed down IE comparable to the innermost hole on the stock axial alum hubs. So steering strength is lessened and clearance is of issue. (protip mount your link screws upside down avoids torn tyres) And the fact I have no link to roll over rocks but instead I lodge rocks in between the higher links and the pumpkin or have a harder time sliding the axle over things. Strange side affect, but it just means a change to approach and driving.




AXIAL clockable Cs, I tired of the crap Integy Cs I got even with the persistent suggestions I SHIM things no amount of shimming would fix a 1 poorly drilled kingpin threading or bent arm on the C. Kingpin binds because it is at a angle to the rotation or arch of the hubs and Cs. SO I got these AXIAL parts and found they clock harder than the Integy parts, use set screws to mount so no drilling or finding screws that DO NOT stick out limiting steering! All is good here.

Custom parts:

Radio trays: well I loath lexan on these areas since it degrades and I am cheap. So some old Kydex (I think it is) and a hour or so and I got a new battery tray and radio tray. moved my battery off the rear axle back into the upper link location to see if loss in sidehill was worth the relocation of bloat. Refuse to cut up these packs since I HOPE to go lipo soon and want these packs in stick form for other rigs.



New steering link: had to do this so the servo horn would work with the High steer hubs. I really REALLY need to get a tubing bender next time I go near Rocklin.

So things I hoped to have bought: DIG, Metal gears, Alum rims, Lipo, Chassis (ls2.0 or widow), and my SCX10 chassis have not happened since I ended up replacing parts I had not intended.

[Madkoifish]

Some rock pics, all driven no posing. I will get better location images later on, since I have a bad habit of not taking pics. Maybe leaving the rig at home so I can concentrate on photos and video? hardly.

These show the old Battery location. Torn between the 2 locations since each has it's detractors and benefits.





Some group pics.

[Neverdone]

How do you like the new chassis? I crawled with one a couple weeks ago and thought it looked pretty good, so I ordered one to go on my scorpion. What didnt fit right about the knuckles? I also ordered a set of those with their BTA kit. Have you thought about moving your lower links all the way in on the chassis and making a full triangulated suspension? Also did you try the chassis in droop suspension, I see you have it sprung. I was thinking of trying to go half and half.

[dustinb]

nothing wrong with stock axial i love mine....

[Madkoifish]

Width, the stock chassis is a fat whore. To clarify I have not gotten a new chassis yet. $hit keeps breaking or needing replacement so all the cash for these "planned" parts never happens.

I have tilted the tranny and narrowed the snot out of the stocker for now. In the above posts with that new skid it is about oh, 1/4th in or more narrower. I run with a guy who has a bender and seeing what he gets over or between the narrow chassis makes a difference on the courses we run as well as the need for longer shock mounts and other details of "locations" for links etc. I am sure some of it is just dependent on local and what you run on. For me I hang up a lot on things or pinch into things with the stock width.

Ages ago I tried droop on my tlt homebrew and didn't like it. Partly since I did not have the cash or paitence to mess with internal springs and finding the "right combo" Here many do not run droop. Breakaway seems to be more of a concern and GC (ground clearance) with everyone here. I admit though to not giving it more than a few packs back then.

If you refer to the knuckles It was just either too tight tolerances IE bearings not fitting in without a press. (not sure if I will ever be able to change them out) to very bad finish, IE bit gouging on the outer part of the hubs. (visable in the older posts) To the short arms (this is personal pref) I don't like the limiting factor of leverage the shorter steering mounts provide though it does avoid that pinching tyre thing. Second is I do not know what grade of alum they used but it is very soft. I have bent the lower mount on one side from loosing a upper kingpin screw. I have seen others loose the same parts but not bend hubs) I was able to manually mill it out and bend it back. THOUGH you could say bent, is better than snapped off. So, you can take it either way. good or bad :-P. Hell the whole high link period has its good and bad in my opinion. Some times I like it others I don't.

Full triangulation on the lower links is impossible stock. The drive shaft will either hit the links or it totally obstructs them. Solution is to raise the tranny or begin tilting and relocating as I have in these images to "center" the drive lines. one of the guys I run with runs his motor on top IE a 90deg rotation of the tranny (it is one of rc4WD units in his ax) It doesn't seem to affect his sidehill much.


Updates:
I just narrowed the chassis once again and tilted the tranny at the suggestion by my neighbor. I have yet to do anything HEAVY with it yet. But it has not affected my sidehill (or putting the chassis on its side trick) Sadly this narrowing has now put the battery back on my rear axle, since it wont fit between the shocks. ( that damn servo ate my lipo cash) I have also returned the 3 link to the front (gives more rotational artic and softens it up) I had issues with the front not "settling" on rocks. And to top it all off I found my stock shocks failing. The caps were tearing off the shock.Since this same issue occurred on 2 separate shocks I just cannot trust them to not "pop" off when out on the trail. SO on go a set of old bigbores and a frantic effort to get back my ground clearance. Some drilling of my old tlt brackets lead to only a loss of 1/4" and way too much artic. I will replace these with properly made parts later on. The shocks are MUCH smoother. I was never able to get rid of that air slip in the stock ones (small jerkyness in the beginning of the shock movement, pumping the shocks before running usually fixes it. it is because stock have no bladders) So, again I see another 50$ going out the door for proper shocks later on. however with a longer chassis (shocks stand up more) I might be able to use these traxxas units. Only suck is the lack of a ball joint on the caps. I cannot mod em since all my tools are in storage (no garage or space for a drill bandsaw etc) So it is buy or just live with the fuel tubing.

joke is a lot of this messing around will all be undone when or if I replace the chassis :O But what is this hobby without the messing about?

narrowed chassis

closeup of swiss cheese. Hd the tranny mounted to far over. Locating the hole pattern was a pain since rotating it changes the spacing.

Comparo of the old skids

Image of the bodged spacer

a ruler! and shows some alterations made recently (flopping lower links etc)

wider angle

TLT shock mount. Need some ax bent ends for the shocks. I could have drilled the holes offset but eh, plans are to replace these so they can go back to my other truck.

current GC. It is enough I don't hit going up my front stairs (benchmark) So I know I wont rage over getting hung up. Every time I lowered the GC I usually would get hung up a lot. Do not like it lol. But at 3.25' it seems OK so far. I will find out in a few days when all this Xmas rubbish is over

Last but not least is my fail shock. Big mess all over my desk. Guess it was better there than on the couch or carpet. :? I will guess it is because I had them raked too far with the narrowing of the chassis and when testing artic and clearance of links etc I kinked em out. But seeing this weakness I was a bit to concerned that this would become a weak point. One shock even the cartridge side was popped open. :shrug

anyone else have this issue?

[Madkoifish]

Oh yeah, what the hell to do with this thing??

yes, my KB is a pile of crap. and no, I wont give the body away. looking for paint ideas. That drawing above I want to put on it but I am not sure what moving box has those paints.

[badnuz]

dude that is wicked

[danielk]

Your shocks did that because it sucks. Get some maxx big bores and you will be solid.

[greenjeeper92]

nice build man

[Madkoifish]

if you look and pay attention that is what is on there now. Issues are that they are not made for ball end mounting, and the length issue (tmaxx) on the stock chassis. So they cause more binding and inconsistent damping (through the fuel tube mount) without a mod to which I cannot make at this time since I have no workshop anymore. That and a resulting weak point for leakage. (ball mount mod) The shocks themselves are great use em on 3 other rigs. Ones on my AX are stolen off my old losi.

The stock rubbish lasted from June until now so they couldn't have been that bad.

Speaking of shocks, opinions on angles? Do people like them tilted in or more vertical when viewing from the front? Tilted the fuel tube affects the movement less, but I wonder how it affects damping. I know some like them in a more vertical position from the side of the rig (reason to get a aftermarket chassis/ build one)