Tekin FXR ESC Crawler Combo 35T Motor suggestions

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Sounds like nothing is actually changed if you haven't ran my motors or talked to me

I have sir, currently installed in my XR are 2 HH 35t which I intend to keep, installed in my AX is HH 35t Epic can, they are fantastic motors and I have praised your quality for years on this forum and will always recommend either HH or Brood motors unless given a reason not too. Support the vendors

I wanted to try something new (to me) for the new year and possibly going forward.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Ah, I read Bill's usage as yours We wind special requests all the time, so if there is something specific that is wanted like epoxy balancing or fatter wire we have no problems fullfilling it. At any rate, supporting a vendor that knows the sport is always a good idea.

One thing I must say, is don't fall for the hype around soldered on brushes. Bolted on brushes have lower resistance 95% of the time. I have tested soldered on brushes from Brood, Fantom, Reedy, and similar companies. They all had higher resistance than bolted on brushes. The only way to beat it is to bolt AND solder on the brush, but that becomes a huge headache for removal. Since most people are not good at soldering, we stick by bolt on's unless something else is requested.

[EddieO]

I guess 30 years of racing data tells a different story.....soldering on brushes has ALWAYS been the industry standard....they have always performed better than screwed on brushes....not to mention most teardowns used in crawling screw the brush down with an anodized heatsink, which doesn't conduct at all, so one side of the connection just gets to sit there and produce heat.

Please post these magical results.

And hopefully this is not directed at me "At any rate, supporting a vendor that knows the sport is always a good idea."

Later EddieO

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Ah, I read Bill's usage as yours We wind special requests all the time, so if there is something specific that is wanted like epoxy balancing or fatter wire we have no problems fullfilling it. At any rate, supporting a vendor that knows the sport is always a good idea.

One thing I must say, is don't fall for the hype around soldered on brushes. Bolted on brushes have lower resistance 95% of the time. I have tested soldered on brushes from Brood, Fantom, Reedy, and similar companies. They all had higher resistance than bolted on brushes. The only way to beat it is to bolt AND solder on the brush, but that becomes a huge headache for removal. Since most people are not good at soldering, we stick by bolt on's unless something else is requested.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Just because a racer does it doesn't make it right. It doesn't matter that the heatsink isn't conductive, where would it conduct to? Heat isn't created where there is no continuity. The brush wire to hood connection is the important one, and solder is not a good conductor compared to a mechanical connection of greater surface area.

Measurements taken from solder tab to end of brush outside hood, using a Kelvin lead 4 wire resistance method. Sample 4 motors each method, 4 measurements taken, all averaged. Motor hood and brush eyelet are cleaned before assembly.

Fist type, vertically soldered brush wires. All taken from a well respected motor builder.

.054mO soldered vs .048mOhm bolted

Another measurement with a better solder job, horizontal brush wire with more hood contact area. I also improved the Kelvin lead contact area.

.046mOhm soldered vs .042 mOhm bolted


Bolted on still wins even with better contact area under the solder job. Like I said, the only way to beat a bolted on brush is to bolt and solder them too. Considering the soldering abilities of most folks, I'm not about to send a soldered on brush unless they ask for it.


But when it really boils down to it, it doesn't really matter for crawling. We don't sustain amp draws like a fast car would, and so the difference between bolted on and soldered on is minimal at best! But, the bottom line still remains that most people can't solder well enough to beat a bolted on brush, but they can clean a motor well enough for a good bolt on contact.

Originally Posted by EddieO

And hopefully this is not directed at me "At any rate, supporting a vendor that knows the sport is always a good idea."

Later EddieO

I don't know why you would assume that or even bring it up. You are always so defensive when I post. I would consider carrying your products in my store if you would stop acting like we were in high school. Good products are good products, and I know your hired crew can build well.

[EddieO]

My hired crew? You realize I have no employees right?

Every motor that comes out of the shop is built by me....

And its not just a racer that does it.......it's every pro motor builder in racing. Mike Reedy, who designed most of the motors we use, Jim Deiter, Oscar Jansen, etc......count the world titles. If bolted on brushes were better, they all would of used them. Every little ounce of power counts, and we certainly would not of wasted any if a simpler method, ie bolting them down was better.

Seems like a weird way to measure resistance.....but whatever works for ya.

I wasn't the only person who took that comment as directed towards me, I didn't even see this thread until it was pointed out to me by a few people, most of which thought the same thing.

And I am constantly defensive, as you have constantly taken pot shots at me and my company.......plain and simple.


Later EddieO

[JohnRobHolmes]

Yeah, High school drama.

I have nothing against you man, I'm just posting information that I have learned through my own experience. I have welcomed you with open arms since you got out of prison, but you have not interpreted it as such. How you and others want to take my posts is not in my control.


You posted a while back that your hands wouldn't let you wind anymore because of pain, and sent this to me a few months back:

And I never ever said I wound anything myself.....I've always had winders who worked for me, Garrett, Peter, And another......they have worked for me for years......they are brood employees.....always have been.

So if I misinterpreted that, my apologies. I wish you luck and lots of business.

[JohnRobHolmes]

If anybody wants to learn more about precision resistance measuring, search for "kelvin leads". One set of leads passes a constant current, and the other set measures the voltage drop through a high impedance volt meter. Highly suggested for anybody with a curious mind that wants very precise resistance measurements.


Edit: How about we get this back on topic? I will start


JRH: Contrary to some popular beliefs, I have found bolted on brushes to be of lower resistance than soldered on
Eddie: Racers have always soldered on brushes, and they know their stuff
JRH: Maybe there is a reason that racers choose soldering besides resistance? Perhaps the high frequency vibrations and hard slams cause a bolted on brush to work loose. I could see that as a good reason for soldering. Maybe you have other input on the matter Eddie?

[wurster]

When did this become a flaming post.I have a teken fxr its so small and you can program it with out the linck .I just opens up more tunability.I have only ran a hh pro hand wound 35 so i dont know what is better on motors .But i have ran a rooster and didnt like it as well as a fxr.

[JohnRobHolmes]

On page two I suppose.

The FXR is super easy to program without the hotwire, the buttons unlock enough for just about any crawler. I can certainly recommend it! Tekin offers both machine wound and hand wound combos with their ESC if you are looking for something in a package deal.

[EddieO]

Yes.....High Frequency Vibrations and hard slams will cause a screw threaded into the plastic to work itself loose in a 5 minute race....that's it.

If that was the case, we would of just put a drop of CA on the screw before we screwed them in......

Like I said before, 30+ years of racing data.......and a practiced followed by every major motor builder of the last 30 years......

Now let's be a bit honest, the main reason eyelet brushes are used is because that's how they come from sagami and you basically have to use another brush to solder them on, unless you want to cut most of the eyelet off and solder them on like that....

And if a guy can solder a deans plug or an ESC.....he can solder on a brush, its not that hard.

Later EddieO

[JohnRobHolmes]

While it hasn't been mentioned yet, a Tekin 17.5 motor with a Mamba Max Pro is an affordable and powerful combo as well. It is my favorite sensored system currently. The Tekin RS is also a great ESC, but not quite as affordable as the MMP.

[PipeDreams]

UH my bad!!! didn't mean to start shit... I just want the record to show I have experience with both HH and Brood products. Brood motor and HH esc and I like them both... sorry guys. In all honesty the reason I went with a brood motor was more options and in stock at the time. I can't wait to get it in and beat it lol.

[JohnRobHolmes]

There is no reason for you to be sorry. No worries from me, I like a good tech discussion about the finer points of things.

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Sounds like nothing is actually changed if you haven't ran my motors or talked to me

Amen brotha' !!

[JohnRobHolmes]

Oh, but he has! So my statement should have been : Sounds like nothing has changed since you are still running high quality motors!

[billj]

Originally Posted by PipeDreams

Whats going on here boys? I thought the both of you were HH guys? I felt I was going to be punished when I got my brood

I have never had HH motors, my last ones were jp warriors. I just got the broods (40r/t matched set)a couple weeks ago. I love them, low end is killer.

[PipeDreams]

Ya DT swore by HH motors for a long time and Bill ran his warrior... now they both decided to try out some broods... No matter where you slice off you motor money with a vendor on this site you won't be upset. All of them make great stuff.

[JustinThyme]

I know that people run anywhere from 35-55T's. I run a 45T (Integy), and find it seems to have a good balance of wheel speed and low end. I found a 55T to be too slow....no punch when needed.

I haven't run a 35T, so I can't comment on that. I think a lot depends on personal taste and technique. I'd like to hear from anyone who has run 35, 45 AND 55T in the same truck, and get their feedback as the pro's and con's of each.

[JohnRobHolmes]

The downside to the 35t is that it is an amp hog, it wears out faster, and you will typically sacrifice some low speed control depending on the setup. The upside is higher power, torque (if battery will put out the amps), and wheelspeed.