Petition/poll ~ Keep bodiless rigs in Sportsman!!!!

[Szczerba]

Originally Posted by 4xFord

Is Jimmy going to go straight from the hobby shop to a national qualifier?

Could, I've seen a few show up.

I was thinking more of local turn outs. New guys have to run with "pro" shafty drivers on the same courses and usually don't fare well. A lot of those new guys don't come back after a few times of getting whooped. I see it every year with our AR clubs.

I don't have the answer, I was just trying to give the newcomer some confidence by separating the shaft class.

[4xFord]

Originally Posted by Szczerba

Could, I've seen a few show up.

I was thinking more of local turn outs. New guys have to run with "pro" shafty drivers on the same courses and usually don't fare well. A lot of those new guys don't come back after a few times of getting whooped. I see it every year with our AR clubs.

I don't have the answer, I was just trying to give the newcomer some confidence by separating the shaft class.

Locally just group their scores in a novice section instead of with all the main group. But that's up to the local clubs of course.

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Its been discussed, and I confirmed it with someone in the know: the rules committee has voted to kill bodiless rigs in Sportsman!

Thats right! All the vendors who have been designing and investing money and time into these products for us have wasted their time! All of us who have purchased these great products will soon no longer be able to use them!

We do not need more rules in Sportsman! Just as this great class is picking up steam some people have shot it in the foot!

Vote here and voice your opinions! Your vote will remain anonymous if you don't want it known, but it is important that you do vote!

DO NOT LEAVE THIS THREAD WITHOUT CASTING YOUR VOTE!!!


To the committee members: we would all appreciate one of you coming forward and explaining the reasoning behind this!

Thank you for the heads up dude.

I am very disappointed because I had called the rules committee president about this two weeks ago, explained my situation, and asked for him to give me a call, text, email or PM when this went up for a vote. He did not.

I did vote in this thread, and voted to keep bodiless. I would have voted that way in the Rules Committee as well, but my vote would not have counted anyway. The final vote was 11 to 6. So not everyone voted that could.

Originally Posted by rock hard

Great...its gunna suck if this has already been decided.
I will want to know why our texas rules rep wasnnt informed

and if he was,I'll want to know why our states group leaders wasnt made aware so we can discuse the idea with our rep prior to the vote.

I dont want any part of a bodies comp truck,I'm like the way a bodiless truck recovers, and I hate body clips,I hate cutting body panels,but thats a once in a while deal..

I dont have any body clips on any comp trucks....its so nice....no more clip getting just under my nail,or worse yet.comming off durring a comp/

Sorry Paul. I had a lot going on lately. I had called Fishmaxx and thought I had communicated to him that I needed a call or heads up before a final vote and I never got one.

Originally Posted by EvilTwin v2

Doesn't look like your rules committee rep has been online since the 11th.

I have not. I had called Fishmaxx personally and let him know about my situation. My wife was out of state for the first two weeks of October which had me doing double duty of running the business and caring for our kids. Then my wife gets back and three days late our boxer of 11 years passed away. The last three weeks have been busy and difficult to say the least.

Originally Posted by rock hard

your riht,and I just checked he hasnt been on our local site either.....shit,I hope he is doing ok and everything is good.hell now I'm worried.

See post above.

Originally Posted by billet works

Not sure why we want to rule and regulate a true drivers/builders/tuners class like this.

I agree. I felt and posted in the Rules Committee that we should use the current 2.2 rules already in use, and just modify them to say shaft driven only, 1 motor, and no dig for the shafty class. Short, simple and probably too easy. Some folks just prefer to complicate things and exert there will over others.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

Thank you for the heads up dude.

No problem. Thank you for coming here and speaking up.


btw: I mass pm'd everyone in the rules committee. I suggest everyone else do the same.

Think we should hit up all the vendors too?

[666]

I support bodiless all the way and I voted that way.

[SledRig]

This sucks....... Ordered my new bodiless chassis last week!

If you want a "stock" class, go the way SLASH did for short course. Make a fairly competitive RTR. Allow no modification except shock oil, spring rate, and choice of battery.

When this class came out, everyone thought it would get new blood into the sport. What happened was the good experienced drivers decided it was fun and a good way to fill out their race day. And, in a class like that it did come down to the best driver. So the kids got their butts kicked and didn't stick around.

Do like racing has done for ever.... A novice class. If you win two or three events in this class, you are bumped up to pro class. This way you and and your constantly evolving rig progress together. This also gives the guy starting out something to strive for and people to look up to for advice.

Sites like RCC have been a great wealth of shared knowledge. I grew up racing on and off road and fortunately had a great mentor. Most of the time at races, competitors had secret pit boxes and wouldn't discuss mods or what set up worked at their home track. They also had real elitist attitudes.

That's the $#it that kills RC in any class

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

No problem. Thank you for coming here and speaking up.


btw: I mass pm'd everyone in the rules committee. I suggest everyone else do the same.

Think we should hit up all the vendors too?

I think that is a great idea. The USRCCA should represent the people who compete in the sanctioning body. Competition is just that, competition. To determine the best driver that day. Less rules and more drive time would be so nice.

Some vendors want a pro shafty class because they sell dig units and don't want a shafty only digless class. So no matter what, there are a number of issues and politics at play right now. I hate to admit it, but the more I learn about the industry and those involved in it, along with the politics I see played out on a public forum dedicated to toy trucks just amazes & saddens me every week. If you push people around long enough, they finally just give up and walk away. This hobby is suppose to be fun and nice diversion to the daily rat race. The rules should promote that and allow for greater creativity. Not limit something in the hopes to draw in new people or appease certain companies. At the end of the day, when you give in to certain people or companies, it's the beginning of corruption and it loses the home grown support and momentum you once had. You can't please everyone either, which is why you have multiple sanctioning bodies for other RC genres.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

Some vendors want a pro shafty class because they sell dig units and don't want a shafty only digless class. So no matter what, there are a number of issues and politics at play right now. I hate to admit it, but the more I learn about the industry and those involved in it, along with the politics I see played out on a public forum dedicated to toy trucks just amazes & saddens me every week. If you push people around long enough, they finally just give up and walk away. This hobby is suppose to be fun and nice diversion to the daily rat race. The rules should promote that and allow for greater creativity. Not limit something in the hopes to draw in new people or appease certain companies. At the end of the day, when you give in to certain people or companies, it's the beginning of corruption and it loses the home grown support and momentum you once had. You can't please everyone either, which is why you have multiple sanctioning bodies for other RC genres.

And that is my worst fear with this ruling, that our sport is being manipulated to influence someones sales. The few justifications we have gotten so far are as nonsensical as the committees ruling, and typically when that happens in any other form or rule or law making its because someone with money in the game is lobbying for it. If that is true, it is both sickening and saddening.

[toyotax10]

This is simple guys.
Just don't switch! Even if they decide to go with this rule, everyone needs to continue running bodieless chassis(if that's what you run)...f*ck them for trying to change rules . Just don't let it happen!
We are all in this together,we should all have a say, we all make the rules.
Creativity and freedom is the whole reason this hobby exists, 1:10 and 1:1.

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by SledRig

This sucks....... Orders my new bodiless chassis last week!

If you want a "stock" class, go the way SLASH did for short course. Make a fairly competitive RTR. Allow no modification except shock oil, spring rate, and choice of battery.

When this class came out, everyone thought it would get new blood into the sport. What happened was the good experienced drivers decided it was fun and a good way to fill out their race day. And, in a class like that it did come down to the best driver. So the kids got their butts kicked and didn't stick around.

Do like racing has done for ever.... A novice class. If you win two or three events in this class, you are bumped up to pro class. This way you and and your constantly evolving rig progress together. This also gives the guy starting out something to strive for and people to look up to for advice.

Sites like RCC have been a great wealth of shared knowledge. I grew up racing on and off road and fortunately had a great mentor. Most of the time at races, competitors had secret pit boxes and wouldn't discuss mods or what set up worked at their home track. They also had real elitist attitudes.

That's the $#it that kills RC in any class

Spec classes work for a while, but you are right. The cream of the crop rises to the top and the losers get mad and walk away. It would be no different in the shafty class in the USRCCA either. Competition is just that, a competition. To compete in order to determine who is the best driver on that day.



To be honest, the MOA pro class has been boring to me. As the technology advances, climbs or lines that was once hard is now easy. The MOA's use dig less and less also. The Shafty class has now become the challenging class to me and the one I want to drive the most besides the super class.

But how much does it suck to invest months into tuning a bodiless shafty, only to be told I have to put a body on it now. Yet I can run bodiless in the pro class? Are the rules committee saying bodiless is an advantage? Why is it OK for bodiless Pro class and not shafty class when they share the same rules except for three?

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

I agree. I think they should have different classifications though. "Beginner" and "Pro". All Sportsman class drivers are on the same course, but when the points are entered, if your score sheet says "Pro", you go into one spreadsheet, and if it says "Beginner" you go onto another. That way there is no need for extra judging, courses or time. Same thing for 1.9, 2.2 and Super.

I know the argument is that the courses will be too hard for beginners. So what? What's a better way to learn than to see better drivers doing the same course as you?

This is the answer to the problem....new guys will be competing against other new guys.

the sanctioning bodies of bmx racing have used similar system and it works.



Eddie,thanks for your efforts in this matter.and I'm terribly sorry for your families loss.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

This is the answer to the problem....new guys will be competing against other new guys.

the sanctioning bodies of bmx racing have used similar system and it works.

That would be the easiest and most logical way to go.

Noobs run "beginner" and get force bumped after a few wins. Gives them a chance and keeps things moving.

[Duuuuuuuude]

It has come to my attention that some of you may not want to voice your opinions for fear of backlash from other committee members or the site as a whole.

You can email me directly at keepbodilessinsportsman@gmail.com.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

It has come to my attention that some of you may not want to voice your opinions for fear of backlash from other committee members or the site as a whole.

You can email me directly at keepbodilessinsportsman@gmail.com.

Really, Backlash.

I voted body only based on the discussions the rule committee had. After the vote and all the talking going on now , I wish I would have voted the other way. I'm asking the rule committee if we should take another look at it.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

Really, Backlash.

Yes. The committee members that I have spoken with have asked to not be named.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Yes. The committee members that I have spoken with have asked to not be named.

puss ies,lol

[SledRig]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

Really, Backlash.

I voted body only based on the discussions the rule committee had. After the vote and all the talking going on now , I wish I would have voted the other way. I'm asking the rule committee if we should take another look at it.

This is what happens when governments, or committees, don't ask the opinions of the people involved. A "closed door" voting session only reveals a select few's interests.

[EvilTwin v2]

Eddie, Sorry to hear about your loss. I am glad, though, to see that you're alright and posting.

As for some of the other comments on novice classes, spec classes, etc., here's the deal... This is a class that's being regulated for National Competition. This is not a strictly novice class. Clubs need to figure out how they can best handle the pro vs novice situation, and that should be left to the individual club/event organizers.

A couple years ago, we had the problem in which the comps were split into 2 groups, the guys who were serious and the others who weren't or were new to the comp scene, so we split into 2 2.2 groups.

We now run 2.2 Pro & 2.2 Am. They basically run on the same course, but with several alternate gates. Occaisionally, the "Pro" gates are also considered bonus gates for the 2.2 Am guys. The 2.2 Am class has 2 additional minutes to finish the course, along with a 20 point carry rule. We calculate seperate series points, with seperate trophies for the class. The 2.2 Pro guys are the only ones competing for a nationals qualifying bid.

As for the Sportsman class, at least locally, if it weren't for the pro drivers, there wouldn't be enough of a class to warrant setting up the courses. Instead of letting the new guys think they can't compete, we typically let them run with the better drivers so that they can see what's possible. Then we give them driving tips throughout their run and occaisionally setup tips (but not so much as to overwhelm them).

Only by welcoming and encouraging new drivers are we going to retain them. Banning a particular type of rig is not a factor in that.

[krawlfreak]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Yes. The committee members that I have spoken with have asked to not be named.

That's gay....
I, like ricky, voted for body only to help make the appearance to the outside enthusiasts more appealing. as everyone knows I prefer bodiless but it was asked to set aside our own opinions.

Was it the right vote....

Not sure about it now, I do think this sheds some new light on the situation. I don't think a lynch mob mentality is the way to go, but enough voices can invoke changes, and I think seeing the interest in this thread will or should cause the rules committee to re-evaluate the decision.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by EvilTwin v2

Just so you guys know, no bodiless rig has ever won a National Championship.

Yes, in 2.2

However, that proves the point even further......body, bodiless...it doesn't matter. The saying doesn't go...."bodiless makes perfect".