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Old 02-08-2012, 09:05 AM   #1
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Default Educate me.....

I want to go Lipo. I have done some research and just get confused after awhile. I know I need a Lipo battery and possibly a new ESC and a charger for the Lipo battery. But I'm not 100% sure what I need and what brands are good.......

My current set up is a 6 cell Tenergy 4200mAh, Novak XRS ESC.

Nick
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:54 AM   #2
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1. You MUST have a lipo compatible charger. No ifs, ands, or buts there.

2. All esc's will work with lipo, but not all will let you know when its time to stop running it because the battery is too low. Lipos don't like to be drawn down past a certain point...newer esc's will shut themselves down when that point is reached so the battery isn't damaged.

You can buy add-on alarms and cut-offs, so that is no big deal.

3. Since you are going lipo, and possibly looking at a new esc, make sure you get one that is 3s capable. You'll really appreciate and enjoy the extra voltage.

4. There are many brands to chose from and price is rarely an indication of quality. I buy my packs from >>ValueHobby<< and have had great success. Take care of them like you are supposed to and they'll live long.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Educate me.....

I'm confused as to what confused you? It's pretty straight forward, just search for lipo explosions and you'll see what happens if you screw up
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:38 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ScaleFreak93 View Post
I'm confused as to what confused you? It's pretty straight forward, just search for lipo explosions and you'll see what happens if you screw up
A lot of my confusion is when people get in to the voltage numbers and which one works best with what style/type of rig.

Ok so any suggestions on a good charger? Are there chargers that can do both Lipo and regular battery cells?

And as far as the ESC with the voltage cut off, I have heard of that before, is that what a BEC is?? I was thinking of buying the Novak Rooster Crawler ESC mainly because it has a neutral brake (or at least that's how I'm reading it) and it has the voltage lipo cut off....
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Rocfrog View Post
A lot of my confusion is when people get in to the voltage numbers and which one works best with what style/type of rig.

And as far as the ESC with the voltage cut off, I have heard of that before, is that what a BEC is?? I was thinking of buying the Novak Rooster Crawler ESC mainly because it has a neutral brake (or at least that's how I'm reading it) and it has the voltage lipo cut off....
3s has more or less become standard. There are more people who use it than those who don't.

For specific lipo classification, read some of the stickies in the electronics section.

I've never used a Novak for crawling, but I've seen enough of them fail spectacularly to make me not want one. Same with Tekin. Smoking your electronics is one thing, catching fire is another.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:02 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rocfrog View Post

Ok so any suggestions on a good charger? Are there chargers that can do both Lipo and regular battery cells?
Everyone has their own preference, and I'm sure many will disagree with me but for chargers you can't go wrong with this guy...Hyperion EOS0606i:

Holmes Hobbies / Holmes Bikes :: Battery Chargers :: Hyperion EOS0606I AC/DC Charger

It can pretty much do it all and it's so simple even I can use it.

For Speed controllers, I'm sure people will again disagree with me but I'd go with a Holmes BR-XL and don't look back. Grab a Castle Link and you have all the flexibility you'd need:

Holmes Hobbies / Holmes Bikes :: Motor Speed Controllers :: Holmes Hobbies TorqueMaster BR-XL

Ok, let the disagreeing begin
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Educate me.....

I actually agree on the esc, as for the charger, I just picked up the new traxxas lipo charger, I gotta say it is pretty nice. Plus it's the right price
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by C*H*U*D View Post
Everyone has their own preference, and I'm sure many will disagree with me but for chargers you can't go wrong with this guy...Hyperion EOS0606i:

Holmes Hobbies / Holmes Bikes :: Battery Chargers :: Hyperion EOS0606I AC/DC Charger

It can pretty much do it all and it's so simple even I can use it.

For Speed controllers, I'm sure people will again disagree with me but I'd go with a Holmes BR-XL and don't look back. Grab a Castle Link and you have all the flexibility you'd need:

Holmes Hobbies / Holmes Bikes :: Motor Speed Controllers :: Holmes Hobbies TorqueMaster BR-XL

Ok, let the disagreeing begin
I agree with this 100% i use both and have absolutly 0 issues with either.The Charge is amazing my 6 yr old charges my batteries for me so its simple and the HH esc is fail proof also.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:03 AM   #9
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And as far as the ESC with the voltage cut off, I have heard of that before, is that what a BEC is??....
Nope. BEC stands for Battery Eliminator Circuit. You kids wouldn't understand this, but back in the days before there was an internet, our R/Cs didn't have fancy ESCs or nothin'. You had a transmitter, receiver, and two servos. To power the radio in the vehicle, you had to run a 4 cell AA pack. Typically, someone pushed it to 5 cells to give their servos more snap, so someone else hooked wires directly onto their car's main pack and used a little power off the main pack. Since six cell NiCad packs charge to almost 9 volts, a lot of servos "went to live on a farm", as you're then running a system designed for 4.8 volts on nearly nine volts. Then the eighties came and something called an 'ESC' hit the market. Inside this little voodoo-box were solid-state electronic switches to turn on and send battery power to the motor. While they were at it, the Mfrs. also put in a small circuit to step down battery voltage to a level the radio gear could use, or an internal BEC. All this was ever meant to do was eliminate the AA packs we had to carry around to power our radios, that's it. We didn't have no fancy little LiPo packs that flamed up when you over-draw them, and our NiCad packs actually performed better if we ran then down to nearly dead on a regular basis, thus we didn't need voltage cutoffs. So no, a BEC is not a low voltage cutoff. And none of the aftermarket BECs I know of on the market have a cutoff in them, so if you wire your aftermarket BEC straight to your battery, then proceed to leave it plugged in when you're not using the truck, the BEC has the capability to draw your LiPo right down into uselessness, so unplug your LiPos when you're not driving your truck.

(I'm not an electrical engineering professor, so if you want to know the difference between switching and linear BECs, you'll hafta hit somebody else up for the differences in those.)
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:21 PM   #10
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Nope. BEC stands for Battery Eliminator Circuit. You kids wouldn't understand this, but back in the days before there was an internet, our R/Cs didn't have fancy ESCs or nothin'. You had a transmitter, receiver, and two servos. To power the radio in the vehicle, you had to run a 4 cell AA pack. Typically, someone pushed it to 5 cells to give their servos more snap, so someone else hooked wires directly onto their car's main pack and used a little power off the main pack. Since six cell NiCad packs charge to almost 9 volts, a lot of servos "went to live on a farm", as you're then running a system designed for 4.8 volts on nearly nine volts. Then the eighties came and something called an 'ESC' hit the market. Inside this little voodoo-box were solid-state electronic switches to turn on and send battery power to the motor. While they were at it, the Mfrs. also put in a small circuit to step down battery voltage to a level the radio gear could use, or an internal BEC. All this was ever meant to do was eliminate the AA packs we had to carry around to power our radios, that's it. We didn't have no fancy little LiPo packs that flamed up when you over-draw them, and our NiCad packs actually performed better if we ran then down to nearly dead on a regular basis, thus we didn't need voltage cutoffs. So no, a BEC is not a low voltage cutoff. And none of the aftermarket BECs I know of on the market have a cutoff in them, so if you wire your aftermarket BEC straight to your battery, then proceed to leave it plugged in when you're not using the truck, the BEC has the capability to draw your LiPo right down into uselessness, so unplug your LiPos when you're not driving your truck.

(I'm not an electrical engineering professor, so if you want to know the difference between switching and linear BECs, you'll hafta hit somebody else up for the differences in those.)
That's a lot of info there! Actually I remember most of that stuff, I have been into R/C's for close to 20 years now.....When I actually got back into it hardcore about 3 years ago I was completely lost at all the new technology!

But I'm not sure in all that if you actually answered what a BEC is or does.....or maybe I just got lost.....happens a lot.

Oh and I passed up "kid" along time ago.....LOL!!

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Old 02-09-2012, 03:32 PM   #11
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But I'm not sure in all that if you actually answered what a BEC is or does.....or maybe I just got lost.....happens a lot.
Guess you didn't read any of the stickies in the Electronics section like I suggested.


BEC's supply and regulate power from the battery directly to your servo or whatever else you want to power it with. They are typically able to handle much higher loads than the internal bec built into most speed controls.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Educate me.....

actually the first becs were built into the receivers and the mechanical speed controls had a plug to power them
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
Guess you didn't read any of the stickies in the Electronics section like I suggested.


BEC's supply and regulate power from the battery directly to your servo or whatever else you want to power it with. They are typically able to handle much higher loads than the internal bec built into most speed controls.
Sorry I have not had the time to read those stickies....planned on that this evening.....hopefully....

I just fly thru hear and read the quick replies to mine and then have to move on. But I will trust me.....

Nick
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #14
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Well after reading some of the stickies I was still over whelmed with info, I happen to be up in Denver yesterday and went into my favorite hobby store and started to ask questions.

Well after a TON of numbers that just seemed to confuse me more I think I know what I need.....

according to the guy there I should look into a Thunder Power battery Charger, 65c 3s 1350mAh Lipo battery. The other huge suggestion was to upgrade my ESC to a brushless system.

Nick
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:48 PM   #15
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You can't go wrong with a 3s. 3=number of cells, each being 3.7volts minimum. S=series, each cell wired together for more voltage. I grew up on nice 1.2v batteries, and after an hour of YouTube (search lipo puncture/fire/drop) I wanted to hurl. I took the plunge and went with a proven but basic Tenergy knockoff tb6ac charger, 3s 50c 5000 mAh batteries and so far no fires. Btw, 50c means the maximum discharge rate the battery can handle before.... well, refer to my YouTube search for that. The number of "c" is a multiplier. So 5000mAh ( or 5amps) times the Max discharge rate equals 250amp maximum burst rating. Brushless motors are a completely different topic. But on to your original post. You are running a 7.2v battery pack right now. Pure and simple. That in nicad speak is a 6 cell. You could go with a high "c" 2s battery to replace yours and keep the motor and esc you have. That will make it a 2cell (lipo speak) battery, or 7.4volts. The. 2 volt difference wont be noticeable. But the power you get from the lipo will be. The higher c rate also keeps the battery from heating up too much, which trust me, is a good thing. So remember lipos are 3.7v per cell, and high C is good. In the noob section there is alot of info so just take it one thing at a time and it will all click soon. Hope this helps.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocfrog View Post
according to the guy there I should look into a Thunder Power battery Charger, 65c 3s 1350mAh Lipo battery. The other huge suggestion was to upgrade my ESC to a brushless system.

Nick
Brushless is NOT the way to go for crawling unless you spend the money and get a sensored system. You will only have a couple of options if you do.

Lipo's are not hard to understand once you get the basics, and aren't dangerous unless you abuse them.

Remember that the main job of the guy behind the hobby counter is to sell you something, so take all of his suggestions with a grain of salt. Most are still not up to speed on crawling.

You don't have to replace your existing speed control to run lipo as long as you don't plan on exceeding the rated voltage of the unit itself. You can pick up an inexpensive lipo alarm or cutoff that plugs into the system and warns you when its time to swap packs.

Last edited by Duuuuuuuude; 02-13-2012 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:06 AM   #17
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...I happen to be up in Denver yesterday and went into my favorite hobby store and started to ask questions...
Just out of curiosity, what store was it?
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by WLYSTLZ View Post
You can't go wrong with a 3s. 3=number of cells, each being 3.7volts minimum. S=series, each cell wired together for more voltage. I grew up on nice 1.2v batteries, and after an hour of YouTube (search lipo puncture/fire/drop) I wanted to hurl. I took the plunge and went with a proven but basic Tenergy knockoff tb6ac charger, 3s 50c 5000 mAh batteries and so far no fires. Btw, 50c means the maximum discharge rate the battery can handle before.... well, refer to my YouTube search for that. The number of "c" is a multiplier. So 5000mAh ( or 5amps) times the Max discharge rate equals 250amp maximum burst rating. Brushless motors are a completely different topic. But on to your original post. You are running a 7.2v battery pack right now. Pure and simple. That in nicad speak is a 6 cell. You could go with a high "c" 2s battery to replace yours and keep the motor and esc you have. That will make it a 2cell (lipo speak) battery, or 7.4volts. The. 2 volt difference wont be noticeable. But the power you get from the lipo will be. The higher c rate also keeps the battery from heating up too much, which trust me, is a good thing. So remember lipos are 3.7v per cell, and high C is good. In the noob section there is alot of info so just take it one thing at a time and it will all click soon. Hope this helps.
A lot of what you posted here is what they told me at the hobby store. The first guy kind of explained it to me as if the "c" rating was like a pipe and depending on the size (bigger number) was how much power was able to get thru. He said to stick with a higher "C" rating to keep the battery cooler. Then he explained to me that the mAh rating was like a "gas tank" and the higher number meant bigger tank. Then the 3s was based on suggestions on here. The other thing I looked at was the battery I listed above seemed to be about the right size to fit on my axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
Brushless is NOT the way to go for crawling unless you spend the money and get a sensored system. You will only have a couple of options if you do.

Lipo's are not hard to understand once you get the basics, and aren't dangerous unless you abuse them.

Remember that the main job of the guy behind the hobby counter is to sell you something, so take all of his suggestions with a grain of salt. Most are still not up to speed on crawling.

You don't have to replace your existing speed control to run lipo as long as you don't plan on exceeding the rated voltage of the unit itself. You can pick up an inexpensive lipo alarm or cutoff that plugs into the system and warns you when its time to swap packs.
Ya I did some research on the brushless and your right there are only a few chioces, not sure I want to go that route but was considering it since I was thinking of upgrading the ESC for the lipo cut off because I don't think mine has one. And I can't seem to find an external one...

Quote:
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Just out of curiosity, what store was it?
It is the Hobby Town in Westminster. I use to go there all the time because they had the crawler course and they have the biggest selection of parts that I know of. Unfortunetley all that has changed and I'm not even sure if any of the crawler guys are there any more. The two guys I talked to were Helicopter guys.

Nick
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:28 PM   #19
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It all you want is to go lipo, I wouldn't replace your motor and esc until you have a few runs with a new lipo. You get such a tremendous increase in power output for a longer duration with a lithium instead of nicad. Those little battery meters (5-20$ any hobby place) can warn you with a beep when the voltage gets too low and your all set. They plug into a "balancing cable" that is wired into the battery. Come are led only and some are a beeper. A must have once you push your rig. A warning, however. If you plan to go 3s lipo you will be pushing 11.1v to your esc and motor. Make sure it can handle that much voltage, especially the BEC inside the esc. Going 3s lipo is like pushing a 9 cell nicad pack.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:37 PM   #20
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It is the Hobby Town in Westminster. I use to go there all the time because they had the crawler course and they have the biggest selection of parts that I know of. Unfortunetley all that has changed and I'm not even sure if any of the crawler guys are there any more. The two guys I talked to were Helicopter guys.

Nick
The next time you are in that area, go to The Crawlspace in Arvada. Ikaika can answer all of your questions, and get you on the right path. He has an indoor crawling area so bring your rig with you

And he doesn't have any airplanes, copters of boats there either...crawlers only!
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