SuDu One - 2.2s / Sportsman chassis

[douwe]

I will ship you my lnc tranny (if the one i borrowd it from wants to)

[crelesy]

No problem Douwe. Just my 2 cents on this project. Hell i can send you a allmost complete lcc. ( if I get it back some day,but I trust you on that.)

Can't wait to see the result!

[Tomy]

I found one LNC tranny only 30km away form where I live. It's not bad considering there are only a handful Losis in whole Finland.

I will pick it up on Wednesday and hopefully have better news for you later next week.

[WAM]

You shouldn't need totally different skids for a Losi version. Several people have fit Losi drivetrains to various AX10 aftermarket chassis.

The LNC tranny is a physically smaller unit than the LCC, but the base dimensions and bolt pattern to skid are identical. If one fits, so will the other. Suggest you consider only using 3 of the 4 bolts to mount it and forget the one that sticks out through the window. In fact Rubbaneck mounted his "flip" LCC version with just the two longitudinal tranny bolts and cross-braced the drivetrain to the side panel up higher. You could consider that option if the 3rd bolt fouls a lower link rod end (likely).

Mounting the tranny isn't a big deal -- it can be handled. But you need to be sure to provide a large enough window or opening in the sideplate for the motor to stick at least half-way out. A 3" x 1.5" will fit many motors, but should probably move it out to 3.1" to also cover many of the brushless motors which have a longer can. IE, my Tekin brushless are harder to fit than my brushed Holmes Torquemaster.

[crelesy]

Originally Posted by Tomy

Here is a little info for those of you who have asked for a Losi Comp Crawler compatible skid plate.

The Losi tranny has a really big footprint. For the Losi tranny to fit the current SuDu chassis dimensions I would have to use a combination of a new skidplate plus a 3mm aluminum plate to raise the tranny slightly and provide a mounting poit for the tranny outside the chassis side plate. This would place the motor half way outside tha chassis and move the driveshafts more towards the center of the skidplate. But there is only room for a rebuildable 540 brushed motor. Closed can brushed motors or brushless motors will not fit.







I don't know much about Losi's but have understood that most drivers use brushless or Titan 550 21t motors. If this is correct, then I'm afraid there is no way to make the Losi tranny work with the SuDu chassis with its current dimensions. The chassis would need to be redesigned thoroughly to work with the Losi tranny. This is something I'm afraid I don't have resources for right now.

If you are a Losi driver and interested in the SuDu, please post your thoughts.

Thanks!

Tomi

Dont worry about that outboarded mounting point. A lot of losi drivers 'flip' the tranny to center the drive line and just skip that mounting point. Never heard of any trouble getting a broken tranny or stuff like that.
And you will find out that the losi lnc tranny is stronger,lighter, smaller and a tat higher than the lcc tranny. Its allso ridiculesly over geared as well. Douwe can send you my tranny, you can re send it with the chassis I'm going to order when finished. (maybe Douwe is allready ordering for me, don't know yet..)

Keep up the good work!

[crelesy]

Wam,

TOok me 10mins to write in my best english about the tranny flip.. You beat me to it ha ha....

[Tomy]

Did some work on this rig last night.

Got a set of Long Beef Tubes from biggin69 and did the XR10 axle mod. Encouraged by all the extra room this created in the steering department I got the idea to make a similar tie rod setup to the stock XR10.






Having slept on it I'm not sure this is what I'm staying with. May proove a little overly complicated in the long run. Is butter smooth though and nicely out of the way. The system has some unwanted flex. I think I'll see this to end and try to eliminate as much of the flex as I can. If it doesn't work (or even if it would) then I'll go for a simple BTA tie rod or one right up under the servo.


I also changed the rear linkage a little. Made the uppers slightly longer. Clocking the rear axle a little more added a bit of clearance for the rear driveshaft. Angles are still not over extreme, I think. Now the suspension cycles smooth through the whole stroke.

[TotoRax]

Hi Tomy,

I like much your project, very beautiful realization


Just a remark on your rear links. With this form, rod ends work in shearing and thus you regularly will break rod ends (I had a similar form on my first sportman).
With a shape more in “S” the rod ends work in compression and break more

[Tomy]

@ TotoRax

Thanks, Stephan. I will look into what you said about the links.

[WAM]

Originally Posted by TotoRax

Just a remark on your rear links. With this form, rod ends work in shearing and thus you regularly will break rod ends (I had a similar form on my first sportman).
With a shape more in “S” the rod ends work in compression and break more

Nice. Perhaps you're a fellow engineer. To an ME, links are "pinned-joint" members and as such all forces are transmitted in a straight line from center to center. In other words your link could have a 360 loop in it and the ball joint wouldn't know or care (assuming it's rigid). So all side forces on plastic rod ends can be removed by aiming the ends towards each other (as if it were a simple straight link).

[TotoRax]

Originally Posted by WAM

Nice. Perhaps you're a fellow engineer. To an ME, links are "pinned-joint" members and as such all forces are transmitted in a straight line from center to center. In other words your link could have a 360 loop in it and the ball joint wouldn't know or care (assuming it's rigid). So all side forces on plastic rod ends can be removed by aiming the ends towards each other (as if it were a simple straight link).

Thanks, It is explained much better
It is not simple to explain some thing in another language

[Tomy]

Simple is beautiful. I replaced the XR10 like steering setup with a near straight tie rod. Only a slight bend is required for it to clear the back of the pumpkin.

For now the tie rod is M3 all thread for mockup purposes but will be replaced with something stronger when the final setup decided upon.






This nice little wheel said hello to me at the bottom of a box. Douwe once designed it for me to be used on my Wraith. I think I'll make a set of these for this rig. Should match the NCD colors nicely.

[Tomy]

Here's some new info for Losi drivers.

So I have now had the LNC tranny to test fit and these are my findings. As I see it there are two alternatives on how to fit the tranny in the existing SuDu chassis.

The first alternative results in the motor hanging almost completely outside the chassis. Like so:



The skid plate is a little short for the Losi tranny which is why the mounting holes on the tranny easily interfere with the lower link mounting hardware. The option above will require the removal of the bottom left (seen from above) motorplate mounting ear on the tranny. Otherwise it will hit the front left lower link rod end.


The second alternative moves the motor more inwards on the skid plate and results in approximately half of the motor hanging outside the chassis. This involves the use of an additional aluminum assembly plate that provides three mounting points for the tranny. This alternative slightly raises the tranny and motor by give or take 2mm.




Both alternatives only allows for the use of 540 size rebuldable motors.

I would be interested in hearing Losi driver thoughts.

Thanks!

Tomi

[WAM]

I have an LNC drivetrain transplanted to my AX10 Gatekeeper chassis, which should be similar to your situation (2" wide skid). Opposite from AX10's, Losi's tend to lift the left front tire, so you want the xtra weight of the offset motor to hang out the left window. (Generally refered to as the Rubbaneck mod.) I think yours is hanging out the right. That much motor hanging out might be obnoxious with a sportsman rig that uses a bodiless cab, but to run 2.2 Shafty (pro class) we have to have a 5" body anyway, so the motor is still enclosed in the package.

So one end of the motorplate hangs out in free space, and as you found, the other tends to interfere with the lower link rod ends. The typical fix is to space the motor/tranny unit up about 1/16", similar to your 2mm spacer. IE, nothing is ground away from the motorplate.

While many motors can be used, a common motor of choice is the Tekin brushless. They measure 53mm back from the motorplate and are a full right-cylinder all the way to the end. Carefull longitudinal placement of the package should fit that motor to a 3" wide window. There's a narrow vertical bracket midway between the motor pinion and tranny output shaft that might hit the sideplate. On a 2" skid with the output shaft aligned to the skid centerline, that bracket stays just inside the sideplate, thus avoiding any interference. If you need pic's of any of this, just ask. I don't have any, but I'll shoot whatever you may need.

Hope this helps. -- Bill

[AlexG]

Anyone who's serious about losi should do the brass insert mod on the axle and the tranny.

With a sporty there's no dig pushing on the tranny so I think it could be possible to use only the 2 screws of the center row.

I like the second option though, I'm just thinking it could possible to ditch the al plate.

Edit: I'm thinking you should flip the tranny also

[WAM]

Originally Posted by AlexG

With a sporty there's no dig pushing on the tranny so I think it could be possible to use only the 2 screws of the center row.

Just to clarify on that point, I'm using three of the four tranny/skid screws with no layout issues. The offcenter screw goes into the skid tab between the rodends. IE I have two small rod-end windows with a tab between them vs the single wide rod-end window of a Losi skid. I wouldn't feel good about just using two screws unless I added a transverse brace somewhere.

[Tomy]

Thanks for the input. Important info about the tranny! Thanks!

So far I have tried to fit the LNC tranny on the original skid plate. The "window" measures 3" but the skidplate is only 2.55". That is why the tranny does not fit well and tends to interfere with the lower links any way you look at it.

The best and "no compromise" way to make it work will be to modify the chassis plates and skid plate, basically to make a complete Losi specific SuDu chassis, not only a different skid plate. Basically what I will need to do is make the skid plate a little longer at the rear. There will also be room for a Tekin brushless.

If I have 3 people who are willing to get a Sudu specific Losi I will make it.

[WAM]

Originally Posted by Tomy

If I have 3 people who are willing to get a Sudu specific Losi I will make it.

Suggest you repeat this offer, including a link-over, in the Team Losi Comp Crawler forum. Don't know if all those guys are following this thread.

[Oz Bruiser]

Tomi there are 2 guys in Australia i know thay have been interested. Zeko and BDR i think have both have pmed you about this and conmented in the thread

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[cliff1119]

How much for one links and chassis for losi that'll help us out a bunch