RCCrawler Forums

solomon7 · 01-04-2008, 01:29 AM

I have made the upper links longer and relocated them further back on the chassis to get rid of some twist, but the axle has alot of swing to it still. I have moved the lowers inboard as well, like CKRC did. If I hit a wall straight on, by the time I'm half way up the rear is moving in its own direction ( normally to the right per torque) and throws the line off.
IS there a way, working with mostly stock stuff, to further reduce axle steer?
Yes I have searched

All I've come up with would be to double triangulate the lowers opposite the uppers. Would double reversing help?

Rocksmith Eng. · 01-04-2008, 02:14 AM

Take a look here and read the tech tip
TCS aluminum Boomerang

Could also play around with different oil viscosity in the left and right rear shocks as well.

montereycrawler · 01-04-2008, 04:38 AM

the GC-1 chassis is designed to eliminate axle steer/swing. When I checked out Gatekeeper's rig I saw no axle steer at all.

Rocksmith - axle steer is different than torque twist. Axle steer is where the axle swings either left or right of the center-line during articulation. Torque twist is where the rt. ft. wheel lifts (while driving forward) as the drivetrain tries to twist the chassis and suspension.

INFIHunter · 01-04-2008, 06:17 AM

I'm having the same problem. But, I haven’t had time to move my lower links inboard yet. I'll get to that tonight. Also, after installing the stage 2 kit I'm having a hard time getting the axle to track straight on flat ground. I've set the turnbuckles with a caliper and they still aren’t right. If I pick up the truck, one tire always drops lower than the other on, and when set down, one tire is always in front of the other one.

cato · 01-04-2008, 07:24 AM

I played with the ckrc stage 2 link set-up and did not like it for the rocks I was crawling. I believe that having the lower links so far out on the axle caused alot of the axle steer. As i moved the back into the mount it seemed to get better.

solomon7 · 01-04-2008, 01:20 PM

Tried moving the lowers just outside of the mounts on the axle side (triangulated) and most of the axle steer is gone. The swing is still there. Anyone have suggestions. I don't wanna buy a new chassis yet. RRRRRR

.....
so close!

Brandon · 01-04-2008, 01:26 PM

Post pics and more people will be glad to help

solomon7 · 01-04-2008, 02:58 PM

I would if I knew how. I'm using my neighbor's computer ( none of my own), and can't load pics. Sorry but all I can do is be as descriptive as possible.
Lower links on the chassis side mounted inboard on chassis w/ 3mm spacer to push em further in and prevent binding on the upstroke. oOn the Axle side lower links are mounted on the very outside of the axle mount, shocks on inner middle of axle mount. Uppers mounted CKRC style on chassis end, with 3link and 6mm spacer to move pinion up more.
Sorry guys thats the best I can do until my neighbor gets back and I can load my camera program and get pics up. He's gone for 5 weeks though:-(:-( and have no computer knowledge. Just now figuring out typing

I hope

someone can get a clear picture of what I am so horribly describing.

Cole82 · 01-04-2008, 03:31 PM

I have some know how of suspension, but with out even a pic of another truck with the same chassis. I'm at a loss

solomon7 · 01-04-2008, 03:41 PM

yeah I suck

It's basically just like the stage 2 setup from CKRC except my lower links are on the most outside of the mounts on the axle instead of waaaay in side the mount like CKRC's. Limited computer skills are really starting to show. If I could figure out how to post a pic I would, but I'm computer retarded

.
Still working on sending Emails (haha)

INFIHunter · 01-04-2008, 06:02 PM

Here is what I have come up with tonight. I moved the lower links inside the chassis and moved the upper links forward and lengthened them. I move the link/shock position back to stock. It seems to work pretty well moving it by hand. I'll try to run it tonight but I only have boxes and pillows to crawl on.

BTW, I did a search will no luck. What is axle swing?

solomon7 · 01-04-2008, 07:25 PM

Mine is setup like that except the lowers are outside the axle mounts ( more triangulation?) with 3mm spacers on the chassis end so they don't hang up on the sideplates.
Axle swing/axle steer is basically this: when it articulates in front one side of the rear axle i.e. will come forward slightly in effect steering to one side. If ya drive straight into a wall and climb to vert about at 45 degrees you'll notice the rear isn't going in a straight line toward the wall anymore. It's kinda steering to one side or the other, throwing the rear off the "line".
I'm pretty long winded but I hope that helps explain what I'm trying to overcome. Torque twist is another can of worms. Got that pretty dialed though.

Cole82 · 01-04-2008, 07:31 PM

Soloman that is less triangulation.
In a perfect world they should look close to this.
Anti Squat and Suspension Tech

solomon7 · 01-04-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole82

Soloman that is less triangulation.
In a perfect world they should look close to this.
Anti Squat and Suspension Tech

I stand corrected. Glad I threw that question mark in there! Thanks Cole82.

So should I move the axle end in then? Back to where INFIHunter has 'em? Thoughts? Thanks for all the input guys!

Cole82 · 01-04-2008, 08:11 PM

Yep inside

solomon7 · 01-04-2008, 08:22 PM

I'm on it.Thanks bro

Right where he has 'em or where CKRC has 'em? I thought the wider axle end and narrower chassis end would widen the "base of the triangle at the axle end increasing triangulation. So I want less seperation between the lowers on the axle then? Still figuring this whole geometry thing out. Judging by the link ya gave me I want the uppers and lowers to start in line with each other, not with the lowers wider at the axle end than the uppers are at the chassis? Did any of that make sense,,, coffee crash slowly taking effect.

solomon7 · 01-05-2008, 12:25 AM

OK so I spent the last few hours playing with link placement just on one end. I moved the links in and out at the axle end, checking for axle steer. It seems like I get way less steer angle with them on the outside of the mounts than in further. About half as much as the stage 2 placement. It seems more stable too.
I pressed the front into a wall, held down one end of the front axle and flexed the rear opposite tire, holding down the grounded tire to isolate just the front end. I then marked the angle formed by the wall and axle. Not very scientific, but not many variables then either.
What do you guys think? No binding BTW

miller · 01-05-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solomon7

I'm on it.Thanks bro

Right where he has 'em or where CKRC has 'em? I thought the wider axle end and narrower chassis end would widen the "base of the triangle at the axle end increasing triangulation. So I want less seperation between the lowers on the axle then? Still figuring this whole geometry thing out. Judging by the link ya gave me I want the uppers and lowers to start in line with each other, not with the lowers wider at the axle end than the uppers are at the chassis? Did any of that make sense,,, coffee crash slowly taking effect.

I don't think clole82 read your question right because to get more triangulation you were correct in making your axle end as wide as possible and frame side as close together as possible.

Joe

Reflection · 01-05-2008, 01:37 AM

Double triangulated,uppers as long or a touch longer than the lowers.....axle steer nearly eliminated

mtnyote · 03-08-2008, 01:24 PM

i just wanted to bring this back from the grave by posting, because i think it is one of the best threads ive read/ found in a while. ive searched for almost 2 hours trying to find a really good link geometry thread. i think this thread is really relevant because there have been a lot of questions on how to reduce axle steer lately (mostly from newbs

) i would love to see a good link geometry sticky, as i have spent hours and hours of trial and error to get a stable and predictable suspension setup.

Just my thoughts on the matter

01-04-2008, 01:29 AM	#1
solomon7 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 888	Axle steer I have made the upper links longer and relocated them further back on the chassis to get rid of some twist, but the axle has alot of swing to it still. I have moved the lowers inboard as well, like CKRC did. If I hit a wall straight on, by the time I'm half way up the rear is moving in its own direction ( normally to the right per torque) and throws the line off. IS there a way, working with mostly stock stuff, to further reduce axle steer? Yes I have searched All I've come up with would be to double triangulate the lowers opposite the uppers. Would double reversing help? Last edited by solomon7; 01-04-2008 at 01:45 AM.

01-04-2008, 01:20 PM	#6
solomon7 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 888	Tried moving the lowers just outside of the mounts on the axle side (triangulated) and most of the axle steer is gone. The swing is still there. Anyone have suggestions. I don't wanna buy a new chassis yet. RRRRRR..... so close!

01-04-2008, 03:41 PM	#10
solomon7 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 888	yeah I suck It's basically just like the stage 2 setup from CKRC except my lower links are on the most outside of the mounts on the axle instead of waaaay in side the mount like CKRC's. Limited computer skills are really starting to show. If I could figure out how to post a pic I would, but I'm computer retarded. Still working on sending Emails (haha)

01-04-2008, 08:22 PM	#16
solomon7 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 888	I'm on it.Thanks bro Right where he has 'em or where CKRC has 'em? I thought the wider axle end and narrower chassis end would widen the "base of the triangle at the axle end increasing triangulation. So I want less seperation between the lowers on the axle then? Still figuring this whole geometry thing out. Judging by the link ya gave me I want the uppers and lowers to start in line with each other, not with the lowers wider at the axle end than the uppers are at the chassis? Did any of that make sense,,, coffee crash slowly taking effect. Last edited by solomon7; 01-04-2008 at 08:39 PM.

03-08-2008, 01:24 PM	#20
mtnyote Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: At the Gates Posts: 462	i just wanted to bring this back from the grave by posting, because i think it is one of the best threads ive read/ found in a while. ive searched for almost 2 hours trying to find a really good link geometry thread. i think this thread is really relevant because there have been a lot of questions on how to reduce axle steer lately (mostly from newbs) i would love to see a good link geometry sticky, as i have spent hours and hours of trial and error to get a stable and predictable suspension setup. Just my thoughts on the matter

01-04-2008, 02:14 AM	#2
Rocksmith Eng. Rock Crawler Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ventura, Ca Posts: 528	Take a look here and read the tech tip TCS aluminum Boomerang Could also play around with different oil viscosity in the left and right rear shocks as well.

01-04-2008, 04:38 AM	#3
montereycrawler Nor-CalRCRC Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Monterey Peninsula Posts: 745	the GC-1 chassis is designed to eliminate axle steer/swing. When I checked out Gatekeeper's rig I saw no axle steer at all. Rocksmith - axle steer is different than torque twist. Axle steer is where the axle swings either left or right of the center-line during articulation. Torque twist is where the rt. ft. wheel lifts (while driving forward) as the drivetrain tries to twist the chassis and suspension.

01-04-2008, 06:17 AM	#4
INFIHunter Newbie Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Greenville Posts: 49	I'm having the same problem. But, I haven’t had time to move my lower links inboard yet. I'll get to that tonight. Also, after installing the stage 2 kit I'm having a hard time getting the axle to track straight on flat ground. I've set the turnbuckles with a caliper and they still aren’t right. If I pick up the truck, one tire always drops lower than the other on, and when set down, one tire is always in front of the other one.

01-04-2008, 07:24 AM	#5
cato RCC Addict Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: WHEAT RIDGE, CO Posts: 1,102	I played with the ckrc stage 2 link set-up and did not like it for the rocks I was crawling. I believe that having the lower links so far out on the axle caused alot of the axle steer. As i moved the back into the mount it seemed to get better.

01-04-2008, 01:26 PM	#7
Brandon Im Brandon Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Colfax, CA Posts: 8,156	Post pics and more people will be glad to help

01-04-2008, 02:58 PM	#8
solomon7 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 888	I would if I knew how. I'm using my neighbor's computer ( none of my own), and can't load pics. Sorry but all I can do is be as descriptive as possible. Lower links on the chassis side mounted inboard on chassis w/ 3mm spacer to push em further in and prevent binding on the upstroke. oOn the Axle side lower links are mounted on the very outside of the axle mount, shocks on inner middle of axle mount. Uppers mounted CKRC style on chassis end, with 3link and 6mm spacer to move pinion up more. Sorry guys thats the best I can do until my neighbor gets back and I can load my camera program and get pics up. He's gone for 5 weeks though:-(:-( and have no computer knowledge. Just now figuring out typing I hope someone can get a clear picture of what I am so horribly describing.

01-04-2008, 03:31 PM	#9
Cole82 I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cedar Rapids Posts: 2,028	I have some know how of suspension, but with out even a pic of another truck with the same chassis. I'm at a loss

01-04-2008, 06:02 PM	#11
INFIHunter Newbie Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Greenville Posts: 49	Here is what I have come up with tonight. I moved the lower links inside the chassis and moved the upper links forward and lengthened them. I move the link/shock position back to stock. It seems to work pretty well moving it by hand. I'll try to run it tonight but I only have boxes and pillows to crawl on. BTW, I did a search will no luck. What is axle swing?

01-04-2008, 07:25 PM	#12
solomon7 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 888	Mine is setup like that except the lowers are outside the axle mounts ( more triangulation?) with 3mm spacers on the chassis end so they don't hang up on the sideplates. Axle swing/axle steer is basically this: when it articulates in front one side of the rear axle i.e. will come forward slightly in effect steering to one side. If ya drive straight into a wall and climb to vert about at 45 degrees you'll notice the rear isn't going in a straight line toward the wall anymore. It's kinda steering to one side or the other, throwing the rear off the "line". I'm pretty long winded but I hope that helps explain what I'm trying to overcome. Torque twist is another can of worms. Got that pretty dialed though.

01-04-2008, 07:31 PM	#13
Cole82 I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cedar Rapids Posts: 2,028	Soloman that is less triangulation. In a perfect world they should look close to this. Anti Squat and Suspension Tech

Sponsored Links

01-04-2008, 08:11 PM	#15
Cole82 I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cedar Rapids Posts: 2,028	Yep inside

01-05-2008, 12:25 AM	#17
solomon7 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 888	OK so I spent the last few hours playing with link placement just on one end. I moved the links in and out at the axle end, checking for axle steer. It seems like I get way less steer angle with them on the outside of the mounts than in further. About half as much as the stage 2 placement. It seems more stable too. I pressed the front into a wall, held down one end of the front axle and flexed the rear opposite tire, holding down the grounded tire to isolate just the front end. I then marked the angle formed by the wall and axle. Not very scientific, but not many variables then either. What do you guys think? No binding BTW

01-05-2008, 01:37 AM	#19
Reflection TEAM MODERATOR Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 10,855	Double triangulated,uppers as long or a touch longer than the lowers.....axle steer nearly eliminated

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Thread: Axle steer