capra dig

[honda3]

Is anyone having trouble with their dig not being consistent as far as engaging and disengaging? Mine worked great for the first week but now is very inconsistent, Im using a cheap tactic 3 channel but was able to set end points for the 3rd channel which was nice. The end points seem to be holding to where I set them but sometimes the servo just doesn't want to pull the pin all the way out or back in. Anyone else having issues?

[WHITE-TRASH]

I've seen mention of this from a few people. I wonder if some of it is due to the weak servo and unlocking/locking under load?

I need to look into a full size servo conversion and linkage since things not working suck to deal with. I figure real power will be better overall.

[Robbob]

Grease .... not packed till it oozes every where but def need grease on everything to do with the dig.

Good HT servo for sure but grease in there for sure.

[TheLetterJ]

Are you using a servo saver? That would be the first thing I'd suspect. With an aluminum horn on the dig servo, I can definitely see flex in the servo mount which has required me to readjust my endpoints after a dozen or so batteries. It seemed like it started having trouble shifting all the way back into 4wd and would randomly let the rear end freewheel (or at least start clicking) which would be cool if I wasn't using a 2 position switch. A few more clicks of EPA and all has been well... for now.

[honda3]

Yes Im using the servo saver and the recommended spectrum servo, you can definitely see the mount flex when engaging dig. Ill make sure its all greased up and see how things go from there.

[Lashlee]

I didn't grease my dig mechanism but I've found that it sometimes needs a slight amount of throttle (or reverse) to get it unbound when coming back into 4WD from dig, especially if I am on an incline. On flat ground it seems to not have any issue, though I've spent a bunch of time twiddling with the servo and endpoint on the radio.

[Still Bill]

No problems with a Reefs 99 micro servo and the stock servo saver from the kit. The 99 has quite a bit more power and runs at 7.4V along with the Reefs 444 steering servo.

[punkindrublik]

Mine's been solid with a Hitec HS65MG servo and no servo saver. I was actually planning on this being temporary and replacing it with the HD-Power TRX waterproof 7.4v servo I just got, but I'm having reservations now...

[Panther6834]

There's been nothing in here for a while, so time for some updates. I'm still having problems with the dig servo, and it's totally messing with my brain. Seriously, I'm to the point of being really pissed. As I mentioned a while back, while I had initially thought the problem was related to my settings, such was never the case...my settings were always correct. I must be having the absolute worst luck possible in this matter, as the problem really does seem to be the servo...or, did, as I just got off the phone with Horizon Hobby, and the cause of the problem may have been discovered.

This update is to notate another "kit problem" that may have affected some of you. As of this minute, I've gone through 7...yes, seven...servos, NONE of which have ever truly worked. But, as it turns out, the problem is probably my kit. As everyone is already aware, there were several errors in the original manual (wrong part numbers, incorrect screw sizes, missing info, etc). Additionally, some kits contained additional and/or missing parts. In my case, I was missing a few parts (the most "interesting" if which were the two plastic that attach to the underside of the hood in step H-1), or, to be more specific, I was shortchanged a 2.5x12mm screw, and had an extra 2.5x14mm screw.

As many people do, I skipped certain steps during the build, going back to them once certain parts (such as electronics, in this matter) were received. Two such steps were H-3 & H-4, as I hadn't decided on a motor/ESC until after the vehicle was almost finished. It wasn't until I went back to complete these two steps that I discovered I had no more 2.5x12mm screws...but, I did have an "extra" 2.5x14mm screw. Figuring this was just another of the manual's errors, I used the 2.5mmx14mm screw to attach the horn/servo-saver to the servo. It seems that the additional 2mm in length must have been hitting, or pressing on, something inside the servo, "killing" it (actually, "killing" 7 servos).

Thankfully, Horizon Hobby, and their incredibly outstanding CS, are sending me another replacement servo, as well as the correct screw. To anyone building their Capra, make certain you do a few things:

1) Download the latest version of the manual (almost all errors have been fixed)
2) Go through the entire manual, making certain you have the correct quantity, and correct sizes, for all screws needed.

As I (unfortunately) discovered, using one incorrect screw size can cause a LOT of trouble. While, technically, it is my fault for having used a longer screw than what the manual stated, it's not my fault that an incorrect number of screws was in the kit. That last point, combined with the fact that the manual was known to have contained numerous errors, is what led to this having happened. Considering it took almost 2 months to determine the actual cause (ok, probable cause, as I don't yet know if the problem is "resolved"...have to wait until I receive the replacement servo & screw to honestly determine that), I wouldn't want anyone else having to go through what I've been going through these past two months.

The 'moral' of this story...and, honestly, in REALLY hoping this is the end of these "troubles"...is, double-check EVERYTHING before you start your build. And, if you have any questions, doubts, queries, etc, call Horizon Hobby. Their CS is outstanding, and, if anything is missing, defective, etc, they won't hesitate to ship out a replacement. The CS people truly know these vehicles, inside & out (the person I some work today is the person who built their in-house Capra, so he knows it quite well), and, is you run into ANY problems, they really do want to help you. Inflated, that's my 14¢ worth (2¢ for each dead servo).

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ndnjames13]

So I had the capra and returned it. The problem is poor engineering the dig relies on the unit to have four points of contact rather than 20 or more when you look at real transfer cases. Why is this important? With more points of contact or Spline count you get less load per spline and therefore less friction therefore smoother locks and unlocks as well and less rotation for the to shafts to actually engage each other. As soon as I saw the inside of the unit I began the return It won't work and never will.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by ndnjames13

So I had the capra and returned it. The problem is poor engineering the dig relies on the unit to have four points of contact rather than 20 or more when you look at real transfer cases. Why is this important? With more points of contact or Spline count you get less load per spline and therefore less friction therefore smoother locks and unlocks as well and less rotation for the to shafts to actually engage each other. As soon as I saw the inside of the unit I began the return It won't work and never will.

Funny (in a sad way) that you say "it won't work, and never will", because everyone else had no problems with theirs. Have you actually looked inside the dig of other dig units? Your assumption that it needs "20 or more points of contact" couldn't be more wrong. If you look inside one of the most bullet-proof digs currently available - the Hurtz V2, from Vanquish Products, you'd notice that the moving plate had only 3 contact points. While the plate that's part of the front output has 6 contact points, the moving plate can position itself into worker 'set of 3'. The biggest difference between the VP & Capra digs are that the Capra's plates use squared contact points, while the Hurtz V2's plates use curved contact points.

In regards to my Capra, yes, I had some problems work the dig, but they were related to a completely unrelated matter. A few others have also had some dig problems...but, again, for entirely different reasons than yours. Mechanically, as far as I'm aware, no one else has said anything negative about the dig mechanism mechanics, as the dig appears to be working exactly as designed for everyone else. But, that's ok...once Horizon Hobby replaced the servo, someone else will greatly enjoy the Capra that your returned...your loss, someone else's gain.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ndnjames13]

Um they did replace the servo 3 times...... I'm also speaking from the point of view of a mechanic with specific knowledge in jeeps that are built for rock racing and crawling. I'm saying increase the spline count divide the load and enjoy smoother shifts. What do I know though youre right I'm stupid

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by ndnjames13

Um they did replace the servo 3 times...... I'm also speaking from the point of view of a mechanic with specific knowledge in jeeps that are built for rock racing and crawling. I'm saying increase the spline count divide the load and enjoy smoother shifts. What do I know though youre right I'm stupid

A dig is really neither a "transfer case", nor a "transmission", which appears to be how you're reading into it...yes, it's (sorts-kinda) a part of the transfer case, but, again, it's just a 'part'. The dig is nothing more than a mechanism that engages/disengages the rear drive shaft. Also, being a scale vehicle, you can't compare it to a 1:1 vehicle...the transmissions aren't even close to the same, there's no gear "shifting", and there's a LOT less force being applied (which is exactly why it wouldn't need "20 or more contact points"...again, I point out the fact that the VP Hurtz V2 dig findings perfectly, and it only uses 3 contact points).

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ndnjames13]

The Hurtz V2 fixes this problem by using a lever to increase mechanical advantage with a full size servo. That tells me what do I need to do to unlock this t case with extra travel that runs into a internally splined housing which is more force. If you compare that to the tcase or "dig" unit on the capra you'll see the lever increases travel of the internal fork but not mechanical force. I must be stupid though.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by ndnjames13

The Hurtz V2 fixes this problem by using a lever to increase mechanical advantage with a full size servo. That tells me what do I need to do to unlock this t case with extra travel that runs into a internally splined housing which is more force. If you compare that to the tcase or "dig" unit on the capra you'll see the lever increases travel of the internal fork but not mechanical force. I must be stupid though.

Not entirely correct. With the Hurtz V2, you can user a standard OR micro servo. They offer BOTH servo arms. As for "mechanical force", that had nothing to do with the mechanism, or the design. That has 100% to do with the servo...or, to be more specific, the amount of torque provided by the servo. And that is also something I, and others, have brought to HH's attention - that the "suggested" servo is way too low in torque. Technically, the "suggested" steering servo is also way too low...but that's something I've come to expect from HH. Point is, while a redesigned dig would be "helpful", it's not the real "cause" of the problem - that would be the servo, specifically the torque of the servo.

I will agree that the design of the dig could be improved on (and, in the 2nd version, which is probably 1-2 years away, it probably will be)...but, it does work perfectly well. We just need a more powerful servo. I've built a few TLR (also HH-owned) off-road racing vehicles, and, even in those, the "recommended" steering servos are always too low on torque. What I've come to 'discover' is that, for whatever the torque is on the "recommended" servo, you should get a servo work 50-100% more torque. If you read the build threads for the Capra, you'll find that some are already using more powerful micro servos, while others (myself, included) are searching for other possibilities (and, please, don't suggest Reef's, as they're junk).

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ndnjames13]

Look at the arm that the v2 uses. Look at the arm of the capra then look at the position and size of the the servos being used. Make extreme note of how the servo position is different AND the lever on the v2

[TheLetterJ]

Originally Posted by ndnjames13

Um they did replace the servo 3 times...... I'm also speaking from the point of view of a mechanic with specific knowledge in jeeps that are built for rock racing and crawling. I'm saying increase the spline count divide the load and enjoy smoother shifts. What do I know though youre right I'm stupid

Originally Posted by ndnjames13

and did have a capra for about 24 hours (Returned it).

Horizon replaced a servo 3 times in 24hrs? I call b.s.

I think a very large portion of us come from a 1:1 4wd/rock crawling background and are well versed in the mechanics of things. I'd suggest against waiving those credentials around. Since when has a smooth shift had anything to do with working or not? Never driven a non synchronized transmission huh? The factor you seem to be missing here is: toy truck. It works just fine.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by TheLetterJ

Horizon replaced a servo 3 times in 24hrs? I call b.s.



I think a very large portion of us come from a 1:1 4wd/rock crawling background and are well versed in the mechanics of things. I'd suggest against waiving those credentials around. Since when has a smooth shift had anything to do with working or not? Never driven a non synchronized transmission huh? The factor you seem to be missing here is: toy truck. It works just fine.

Thank you...and, exactly. Just because I was 82nd Airborne doesn't mean I know everything about parachuting. Just because I'm a musician doesn't mean I know everything about music. Just because one individual might happen to know more about a particular RC vehicle than anyone else in the RCC forums doesn't mean he/she knows more about that vehicle than anyone else.

Most importantly, just because ndnjames13 is a mechanic on 1:1 vehicles, doesn't mean he knows everything (or anything) about RC vehicles.

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ndnjames13]

Well we just compared a non synchro tranny to a t case with a dig function and told that a 82nd airborne guy cant make a parachute. What does that have to do with basic physics? Furthermore can anyone here disprove what I'm saying about the capras dig function? No I've been told that either a larger servo is in order overcome the lever disadvantage put on the servo or go to a design that not only increases the servo size but incorporates a lever advantage. So to conclude the design is bad it needs to be brute forced or you should simply change to a proven design.

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by ndnjames13

Well we just compared a non synchro tranny to a t case with a dig function and told that a 82nd airborne guy cant make a parachute. What does that have to do with basic physics? Furthermore can anyone here disprove what I'm saying about the capras dig function? No I've been told that either a larger servo is in order overcome the lever disadvantage put on the servo or go to a design that not only increases the servo size but incorporates a lever advantage. So to conclude the design is bad it needs to be brute forced or you should simply change to a proven design.

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

"interesting" way of distorting, &"twisting around", what other people have said. Several people in here have mentioned that there's NO real problem with the design...to quote TheLetterJ, "It works just fine." So far, the only serious problems, including the one I was experiencing, have been, ultimately, caused by 'user error'.

In your case, it was a servo failure, which could be nothing more than a defective servo (which can happen, especially when dealing with inexpensive, micro-scale electronics). I'll point out, once again...and, this will be my final comment on this subject...that you failed (or, choose not) to contact HH support, and have them shop you a replacement SX107). Had you done that, and gone through the proper install & setup, I'm fairly certain your "problem" would have been resolved, and that Capra would be being Grammy enjoyed right now (unless it's raining, as it was for me yesterday).

Good day, and MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!

~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place