Beginner's Bomber Build - What I've Learned and Help I Need

[84yoda]

Originally Posted by powder4breakfast

"I'm running CI double deuce foams, 6.0 size, comp cut inner,

Medium outer on the front, firm outer on the rear.

I took the tuning ring off too.

Very happy with them for a bashing rig, soft outer would be better if you do a lot of crawling,

I would probably suggest comp cut 6.0 medium outer all round with these if you want a rock bouncer. Soft outer all round if you want maximum grip."

This is exactly the answer for you. My 6.0 foams had a tiny ring already cut around the outside which I pulled off for my tsl xl which you will need to do too. It makes it a perfect fit.

[bilinvic]

Originally Posted by powder4breakfast

CI responded to my email and recommended Double Duece 5.5" comp cut with "soft" front and "medium" rear.
- Can anyone provide feedback on running firmer foams in the rear tires?
- I would also appreciate input on 5.5 and 6.0 foams in any tires with similar dimensions to the Proline Flat Iron XL's.

With my P-L Flat Iron XL tires, I was using the CI 6.0 with mediums foams and IMHO, they were too hard for crawling; the tire wouldn't easily conform to the rock surface. I have the CI DD 5.5 Comp Cut w/ soft foams coming next week and I suspect they will be perfect. My DMG B1B thread will have more info when I get them.

I prefer my rear tires to also conform to the surface they are trying to grip, therefore I use the same outer foam density front and rear.

I'll try to get some photos showing the size difference (if there is any) between the two inner foams.

I have the same 5.5 CI DD foams in my PitBull XOR tires, but I'm not opening them up to measure!!! lol

[powder4breakfast]

Update on my progress: My fingers are crossed hoping that my VP and Incision parts will be entered and available for me to pick up today. I should have quite a few changes to my rig by the end of the week. As for foams, I'm waiting on bilinvic's input on the foams he has coming before I pull the trigger. I'm leaning toward 6.0" DD - soft without the outer ring on all 4. We'll see if bilinvic's pics and report sway me.

This leads me to my next 2 questions.

1) Vent the rims or tires?

I've read what I can find on this. Some people still prefer drilling the rims while others poke holes in the tires. Keep in mind that I will be running CI's DD with closed cell inner rings. I guess I'm leaning towards 2 or 4 small (2mm-3mm) holes around the outside center-line of the tire. Not planning on a lot of wet driving. If I do, I'll still have my stock Walker Racing/S30 Baja wheels for trashing. Thoughts? Experience?

2) Beef Tubes?

I'd like to keep running my stock plastic axles for now. If I understand correctly, Beef Tubes will help add strength and durability to the axles as well as some more low slung weight. Are there other options? I heard that Crawler Tubes (or something like that sold on ebay) are a good option to look at as well. I'm leaning towards brass. Thoughts? Experience?

[bilinvic]

Foams arrived:

bilinvic's DMG IFS B1B Bomber Build

[powder4breakfast]

Blast you bilinvic. Things were going so well and then you drop the bomb... you don't vent your wheels and tires... haha. It is good to hear that there is more than one way to skin a cat and is definitely something to consider. Being new, I kind of thought venting was a given.

With this info, I'd like to know who else vents or doesnt... I'm particularly interested in what 84yoda, maslin, screamer, osterwart and/or rngrchad do since you all have been providing so much help for me thus far.

[Lostsamurai]

Originally Posted by powder4breakfast

First question.

I have SSD Rock Racer wheels on the way. I am looking into tires. Mostly for crawling on rock. Granite and limestone around me. Lots of slickrock in Southern Utah where I often travel for work.

I'm particularly interested in either the Proline Flat Iron XL's or Axial R35 Krawlers. Any opinions and experience on these two tires would be appreciated. I want to stick with Axial or Proline for my tires.

Once I settle on a tire, I may have questions on foams; but, I assume that I can direct those directly to CI first. Otherwise, what foam set-up is recommended for the Flat Iron XL for crawling (I'm leaning towards the Flat Irons unless someone talks me into the Krawler or other Axial or Proline tire)? I want them to have a similar feel to how soft the stock Baja's are when rolling and gripping around rocks.

give a holler next time you come down this way we crawl daily at three peaks in cedar city and at least once a week in st george at dixie rock wednesday evenings

[ostewart]

I vented my RC4WD Interco Irok's when I ran them, but have decided not to vent the FlatIrons I have now.

I vented them to help expell water, and conform better but after not venting my current tyres, I don't find it to make too much of a difference.

I would try first without venting and see how it works for you.

[Rjohn929]

I vent every tire I own from racers to crawlers. 2-4 holes 2-4mm in diameter. It depends how I feel that day. I haven't really noticed much of a difference in the different quantity or size. I tend to run everything on the very edge of destruction so I need as much impact absorbtion as possible without any bounce. If I didn't have holes the air escapes the tire and doesn't come back in fast enought leaving me with flat spots or flat tires until the pressure equalizes.

[maslin]

My crawler tires are all vented, but I have stopped venting my truggy tires. Maybe the next time around I won't vent them and see what happens.

How's that for a definitive answer

[Fj62]

Sometimes too much information can be a bad thing, LOL.
Grew weary of all the research and just decided to go with the 5.5 DD comp/soft on all four. Will most likely vent tires, but will wait until I have one mounted up to decide.
Thanks to all who made suggestions.

[powder4breakfast]

^^^Yep

In other cases, I feel I have been able to look at a difference of opinions and find the one that better suits me based on similar preferences in driving style or terrain etc. In the case of tire foams... uhhh... well... ehh...

Today I'm going to head to a local shop and see what they have in stock. That may ultimately make my decision. Leaning towards 5.5 and try not vented first or 6.0 and vent for sure.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by Rjohn929

If I didn't have holes the air escapes the tire and doesn't come back in fast enought leaving me with flat spots or flat tires until the pressure equalizes.

I wasn't going to vent a new set of Flat Iron XLs until I read the information included with the CI foams. I don't have it in front of me, but basically if the tire isn't vented, it'll be bouncing around on air and not even utilize the foams. Which led me to get all handsie with my tires and squeeze some air out. I noticed what Rjohn929 is talking about. No matter how carefully I put the tire together, air still gets out. Plus I want to foams to do their job.

Yes, I was bored enough to read the instructions for my foams . Eddie knows his stuff and I figured he wouldn't put it in there if it wasn't important.

[powder4breakfast]

[IMG][/IMG]

Remembering that this is my first build, the above picture is terribly exciting for me

Included in the photo are tires and rims, clamping hexes, VVD's, longer Axial pins, SS links and VP stage 1 kit. Missing from the pic is some beef tubes or similar and whatever foams I end up with.

One interesting note. I have no idea what titanium and other links weigh; but, my first impression when I picked up the package of SS links was wow... I didn't know any of these little car parts could carry so much weight. I want some weight down low and considered that when going with the SS links.

Also, I want to give a shout-out to DDM racing (davesmotors.com). This is the shop responsible for getting me into all this. My car and the goodies pictured (minus the rims from RPP) came from DDM.

[Fj62]

powder4breakfast,
What did you decide to go with on the foams?

[powder4breakfast]

Fj62, sorry for the long delay. PM sent.

As for foams, my local shop did not have comp cuts so I purchased the regular inners. I pm'd bil for a little bit more info and he said he didn't have a gap in his tires and I ended up grabbing the 5.5."

Funny; but, the foams were by far the hardest decision I've made on this car and I'm still not sure. In the end, I bet I would be happy either way. The difference between the 5.5" and 6.0 without outer ring is minimal.

[84yoda]

I vent my rims, not tires. All my rigs do. I dont go in water or mud. With the closed cell inner, you will have to drill few holes in it to vent through the rims.

[powder4breakfast]

As if my newness hasn't been made obvious yet... look at the left hub and axle vs right.
[IMG][/IMG]

Even though the tilted VVD makes it obvious that something isn't right, I put both sides on wrong before I noticed. This pic was taken after I had corrected one side... haha. First timers take note - the C-hubs have a top and bottom.

I headed to Southern Utah for work again today. I mounted the Flat Iron XL's, CI DD 5.5" soft foams and SSD rims this morning so I could run them tonight. The wheels were very easy to mount.

After about 25 minutes of crawling, my wheels locked up. I picked up my rig and a pin from the VVD end fell out. Not only did I put the C-hubs on upside down; but, I also forgot to put one set of bearings into the inner side of the knuckles. This allowed enough movement for a pin to fall out of the ball end and bind up the axle. yep... I'm new to this.

The stock pieces were in my truck and I popped the bearings and put everything back together.

My rig with some new shoes and other goodies.
[IMG][/IMG]

A few weeks ago I learned that a local 4x4 shop gets people together for casual crawling every Wednesday night. It's been fun to meet up with others while I travel and get out.
[IMG][/IMG]

I learned tonight that the weight of the SS links, wheels and other stuff helped keep the front end down tremendously; however, I want more still. In an attempt to avoid rotational mass (and make the axles stronger) Beef Tubes might be next. I read a few reviews about Beef Tubes being sloppy. Is that true? Is there a better option? Or, are Beef Tubes the thing?

The Flat Irons were nice and the SSD rims got a lot of comments. I was happy with the 5.5" soft. I did not have time to vent yet. I'm going to run as is for a bit.

[SCREAMER]

I have 4-5 sets of beef tubes and they're great. No sloppiness at all. In fact, they have a nice light press fit to them when you slide them in. Here's a tip for installation. Make sure all screws, to include the little plug screws on the plastic tubes are removed before sliding the beef tubes in. When I went to install my first set, I had one tube that just wouldn't go past a certain point no matter how hard I pushed. After a while I found out one of those little grub screws on the bottom of the long side axle was threaded in just enough to block the beef tube from sliding the rest of the way in. You may have to switch to a shorter countersunk screw on the top of the truss as well.

[powder4breakfast]

Since mounting up my wheels yesterday non-vented, I have had them down at 2800' elevation and up over 7600' elevation. This morning at 2800' I noticed one of my wheels was squished in and wouldn't equalize. Up above 7600' this afternoon, all my tires were like balloons.

Since I will be driving my Bomber high and low, I decided to vent them. Tried a drill bit first... nope. Then I stopped by Harbor Freight and picked up a $3.00 pencil soldering iron which was pretty slick.

I feel like the tires were better today. Flat Iron XL's vented with 5.5" soft DD's are in fact very soft.


Quick vid of a fun line. Hard to do lines justice; but, the passenger tire is airborne near the top. There is a hole that I have to drop my back tire into so I can get the car to sit back down and bring it around the arch.

[84yoda]

There going to get softer too. Softs are to soft unless you have stiff tires.