Upgrading steering on the cheap.

[05Fronty4x]

Here's a thread for you steering fanatics out there. In the interest of money I'd like to upgrade to gain some steering angle without breaking the bank so I was thinking of just getting the Axial high clearance knuckles and universals. Now, for the questions:

Do I have to get the aluminum c-hubs as well?
Will I need to make new steering links, and will there be any setup/clearance issues with the standard axle mounted servo?
Will I loose a significant amount of up travel from the link contacting the frame?
My EPA is in the 110-115% as is with the Hitec blue horn, I forget if it goes up to 125 or 150%, but should I get a longer horn just in case? I think the hole to hole distance is actually a mm or so shorter than the plastic horns that came with the kit.
And finally, is there even enough steering angle gain to be had with the Axial knuckles to be a worthwhile investment?

Thanks in advance.

[Wizzle]

My last scaler had the universal (cv) type front shafts and high clearance knuckles. They worked well but is wasnt a huge gain. You could try removing the front screw from the c-hub but thats best saved for a metal axle housing as one may not be enough in the plastic axle housing.

[05Fronty4x]

I'm pretty easy on my rig so durability isn't much of an issue, but I'd like to keep both screws in even if it's just to minimize any potential slop. I've thought about being really thrifty and counter sinking a flat head screw in the chub even if it's only to gain a few % on my EPA adjustment.

What was the limiting factor after you installed the high clearance knuckles and universals?

[Wizzle]

Interference. Hub arm hits the c-hub screw.

[05Fronty4x]

Are you sure you had the high clearance knuckles? I thought the higher arm is above the c-hub screw?

Did you have Axial Racing - Aluminum Knuckle - Black (2pcs) or Axial Racing - Axial Hi-clearance Knuckles (2pcs)

[winnerone23]

I'm thinkin he doesn't have high steer knuckles.. I run axial high steer knuckles an axial cvd's.. I actually limited my steering with the use of home made knuckle weights.. the outside tire would steer so much it would seem to fold in, an it still worked that way! But to save my cvd's I limited it..
I also run a cms an I have no issues with full suspension cycle.. tie rod on top the knuckles an drag link on top the far side, from servo, tie rod.

I also see no reason why you couldn't use plastic chubs with this setup..

its a good amount of more steering from stock knuckles an dog bones.

[05Fronty4x]

Originally Posted by winnerone23

I'm thinkin he doesn't have high steer knuckles.. I run axial high steer knuckles an axial cvd's.. I actually limited my steering with the use of home made knuckle weights.. the outside tire would steer so much it would seem to fold in, an it still worked that way! But to save my cvd's I limited it..
I also run a cms an I have no issues with full suspension cycle.. tie rod on top the knuckles an drag link on top the far side, from servo, tie rod.

I also see no reason why you couldn't use plastic chubs with this setup..

its a good amount of more steering from stock knuckles an dog bones.

Thanks. I suspect a CMS would be the way to go with this setup, but I'd like to keep it on the axle for now. I'm thinking I wouldn't loose too much clearance with the tie rod under the knuckle arms and the drag link on top with no spacers, but I have no idea. It sure does seem like it would be a tight fit with the 50/50 droop I run. If only I could try before I buy.

If anyone has photos of their steering links running the high clearance style knuckles and a standard axle mounted servo, please post.

[winnerone23]

I have pics of that in my build thread..
I ran the tie rod on top an the drag link from under, with a 1" clamping horn..
Build thread.. wanting a winner.. xj build..
Search.. Cherokee.. an you will find it easy. You can post any questions there, that you want to know more bout..
The cms setup is Free! I took the stock servo plate off the axle, drilled 2 holes an mounted it on the chassis rail.. then 4 link ur front axle.. done..

[05Fronty4x]

Thanks, I remember looking at your build thread a couple weeks ago, I went and looked again. It looks like I may have some trouble setting it up like you had yours. Here are some pics of the current geometry at center. My horn is behind the tie rod, and I think the tie rod won't be high enough to clear the drag link at full lock.

[winnerone23]

Great! Now I'm goin to have to go look at it an look again how I had it setup.. I think.. the tie rod had to be on top to get full lock..
Everything will change on urs once you get the knuckles.. oh wait, I have a new set sitting here, I don't need, lol.. anyways.. you might want to grab a new horn for the setup too.. 10-12$.. pretty darn worth every penny.. longer horn means more out of ur servo.. more leverage=more torque, more length= more steering.. better setup= MORE!

[05Fronty4x]

Originally Posted by winnerone23

Great! Now I'm goin to have to go look at it an look again how I had it setup.. I think.. the tie rod had to be on top to get full lock..

Everything will change on urs once you get the knuckles.. oh wait, I have a new set sitting here, I don't need, lol.. anyways.. you might want to grab a new horn for the setup too.. 10-12$.. pretty darn worth every penny.. longer horn means more out of ur servo.. more leverage=more torque, more length= more steering.. better setup= MORE!

Hook a brother up, lol. I hear you on the servo horn. I've been wanting to get a good one since day 2 of running the rig...I'm sick of always finding the screw that holds mine on loose. Clamping servo=problem solved =D.

[AZINDY]

Its sounds like you need a longer steering horn for sure. If your looking for better steering for cheap, just take a dremel and clearance the arm of the knuckle where it would touch the screw on the axle. That will get ya several more degrees of steering. But the stock steering geometery sucks, and gets worse when you mod the stock set to turn tighter. This is an easy fix, just make a new link bar for the knuckles. Make sure to make it alittle longer then the stock one. That will cause you to have some positive toe (front tires will point away from each other). Which will cause the inside tire to turn a few degrees tighter then the outside tires, and that is what you want. I did this to my truck and it made a very noticeable difference without spending more then acouple bucks.

[05Fronty4x]

Originally Posted by AZINDY

Its sounds like you need a longer steering horn for sure. If your looking for better steering for cheap, just take a dremel and clearance the arm of the knuckle where it would touch the screw on the axle. That will get ya several more degrees of steering. But the stock steering geometery sucks, and gets worse when you mod the stock set to turn tighter. This is an easy fix, just make a new link bar for the knuckles. Make sure to make it alittle longer then the stock one. That will cause you to have some positive toe (front tires will point away from each other). Which will cause the inside tire to turn a few degrees tighter then the outside tires, and that is what you want. I did this to my truck and it made a very noticeable difference without spending more then acouple bucks.

Thanks. I actually toed the tires out slightly last night with a little spacer (about 1.5mm thick). I havent tested it yet, but it makes perfect sense as to why it should help. As far as working with getting more steering on my current setup, I did some testing and my dog bones bind and click if I turn them any sharper so I have the Axial CVD's, high clearance knuckles and a longer horn on the way. I might just do a DIY CMS job while I'm at it to keep the link setup nice and tidy.