Tz-2500

[Trubble]

Don't remember how I got onto reading about ToyZuki's Forward Motor Mount, but after much deliberation, I finally decided to pull the trigger and grab me one, with all the accoutrements, of course.



Spec. Sheet:

Frame:
ToyZuki's angled skid scx10 chassis: in G-10 material.
ToyZuki's Fabrication Low Center of Gravity Motor Mount: looks to also be twin G-10 plates w/ standoffs
ToyZuki's T-case: again G-10 w/ standoffs
ToyZuki's CMS Mount: aluminum, twin servo mount

Body:
Pro-Line: 1972 Chevy® C10 Long Bed Clear Body (3227-00)
Bumper, Front:
Bumper, Rear:

Suspension:
Shocks: AXIAL SCX10 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited C/R Shocks (4) (NTO)
Links:

Tires:

Wheels:

Rear Axle:
stock AX/SCX

Front Axle:
Housings: stock Axial AX/SCX
Locker: GripFab SS Spool
Gearset: Axial HEAVY DUTY BEVEL GEAR SET 38T/13T
Tube Inserts: Brass Burly Beef Splined Tubes
Axle shafts: XR10 FRONT UNIVERSAL SET
C-hubs: stock Axial XR-10
Knuckles: stock Axial XR-10

Driveshafts:
Axles to T-case: MIP Spline CVD Center Drive Kit, Axial SCX10 Vehicles w/12.3 in Wheelbase
T-case to Motor Mount: G Made Hardened Universal Shaft (82-117mm) 5mm hole (1)

Trans:
ToyZuki's T-case:
Gearset: Stock Axial AX/SCX
Spur/Pinion: Stock Axial 87t/48p spur, Traxxas Slash 18t/48p pinion

Electronics:
Steering servo: Holmes Hobbies HV500
Motor: Brood TBR-APOCALYPSE6259, (35 turn HHK-SR arm, epoxy balanced, 7.5mm comm, stock mat'l standup brushes, std. 9oz purple springs)
ESC: Axial AE-2
Regulator: Castle 10 amp BEC
Radio: Futaba 3PL

[Trubble]

First update (already!)

No pix.

Went through the rear axle, just disassembled, meticulously cleaned, re-seated a couple of bearings, dropped in some SuperLube, and I'm lettin' it roll like that.
Didn't come with pins or hexes, so I found some loose pins and Scorpion-style hexes in my spare parts stash.
It did come with those huge Vanquish hubs, but just the two for the rear. So that's where I got the idea to go with wide hubs in the rear, and get some shortys for up front and do the XR mod. Looked in my spare parts stash and found some XR c-hubs/knuckles, hence the decision was made and set into motion.

When I put in my order to RPP, I went ahead and got some more pins, for any possible future need, and I also ordered up some SCX-style hexes just for some flexibility in case I have to run hex mounts instead of SLW compatible wheels.

[wmax99]

gd start il fallow this build ;)

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by wmax99

gd start il fallow this build ;)

What?

[Trubble]

Well,

As I was putting my parts orders together, I had already dug into the front axle to check condition of it's internals. Found I had the dreaded 'broken tabs on the Iron Cross' syndrome.



I had thought about just shoving it back in the diff cup (sans tabs) and just letting it fly, see how long it lasts. But the lazy person inside me spoke up and didn't want to have to be doing work on the axle later when it grenaded. This, added to the OCD itch that was already established, told me I couldn't just let it slide.
Then I got the bright idea I'd shore it up by cutting strips from the card you'd find at the top of a parts bag.



This tightened up the cross inside the cup quite nicely, but again, I didn't relish the thought of having to dig in there when the cards disintegrated later on. Wouldn't cost much, nor would it be a ton of effort to do it right, so...... went ahead and ordered the GripFab spool and heavy duty gears from RPP (along with a bunch of other stuff).

[Trubble]

So, with final plans on all that's going to go into this axle, here's where I started from.



First up,



GripFab spool and Axial heavy duty gears (stock ratio). I dropped 'em in and wasn't 100% on the mesh, so I took it upon myself to add in an Axial diff cup gasket between the spool and ring gear. I don't know if the spool was designed with this in mind, but that's what I did. Dropped that whole apparatus in, along with some SuperLube, and it felt pretty good. It may loosen up as the gears break in, but ach, years down the road, right?

Next up,



RcBros Splined Brass Burly Tubes! Since I had the stock XR-10 c-hubs and knuckles just laying around, I decided 'why not do the XR mod?' Aye, and so i' tis.
Ugh! I have already lost track of how many times I've put these things in and taken them out. And it's hard to see now, but dang, did some of these holes turn out ugly (hand held drill, bits walking, etc). Had to really focus on just getting all the screws started, and just tightening a little on one side, then a little on the other side.
Now that they're in, they're awesome, the fit on these is very nice. The time spent on hand-fitting has been well worth the effort.





On the 'front' of the axle, I put the secondary screw above the rib in the housing, and on the 'backside', I put the screw below the rib. Not sure if it would've mattered, but that's what I decided to do. I'm SO glad I didn't do like I was thinking and cut out some of those ribs and put the screws right in the middle. That could've gone horribly wrong.

And that gets us to where I am now,



It took some pretty serious effort to get those c-hubs on the tubes! But as I sat there looking at them, as much as I wanted to just tell myself "they went on that hard, they won't likely slide off", I just couldn't do it. Couldn't leave them like this and trust them. Had waaay too many shortcuts blow up in my face in the past. So, I have these punched (dimpled) and waiting to be drilled and tapped.

That's where it sits, hope to get some more done this weekend.

Thank you GripFab, RcBros, and RPP.




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[Trubble]

(Saved.)

Okay, where were we?

Oh, needed to drill/tap the tubes for the c-hubs, right.

Here ya go.


and


Nothing too spectacular, just your standard run-of-the-mill drill/tap job. I just put a setscrew in as I (a) didn't have a 3mm screw with a head on it of the right length, and (b) I'm thinking the splines will keep the knuckles from rotating, all I really need the screw for is so the knuckle doesn't slide off the c-hub. (We'll) See how that works, I guess.

Finished 'er off with some Scorp style aluminum hexes, and some brandy-spankin' new Vanquish hubs.....



I think that should wrap up the front axle.

[Trubble]

(#2 Saved.)



I did a quick and dirty measurement, as near as I can tell, the stock Scorpion axles came in at around 192ish mm hex face to hex face. Those big, honkin' wide hubs I got used with the rear axle put it at somewhere around 222ish mm or so at the hub faces, and the 225's on the front axle put it at around 228ish mm at the hub faces.
Started with a body that isn't overly wide to begin with, and kicked the axles out another 30-35mm's........ suppose there's zero hope of keeping the tires anywhere near under the body.
Since I'm really not much of a fan of the 'tires out' look, I may have to seriously re-evaluate this project.


The litany of bad decisions that eventually culminated in the next post, most assuredly haven't helped matters.

"Meh. Whatevs."

[Trubble]

Bound to happen, I guess. Project blew up in my face already.

This is the point I got to when I absolutely lost my $@&%. Had to get away from it.



I'll come back when I can be a little more civil about the situation.

[Trubble]

Okay! I'm back!
(hope you brought yourself some refreshments, this one's gonna be a bit protracted)

Tonight, I decided to deal with the motor plates/power unit. Had everything assembled, pretty much, but knew I needed to Lock-Tite some stuff, and still needed to address this one issue.......



Not a big deal, right? Just chuck that sucker up in the lathe and knock 1/8th inch off the back end and I should be good to go, right? No. I don't have a lathe.

So, I measured this shaft everyway from Sunday and made damned sure I knew how much I needed to take off. 0.110", okay. So I thought I'd take it down from an overall length of 1.715" down to 1.607 (.108" stop short, can always take some more off if need be). Even got real smart and measured from the existing pin hole to the end, and rationalized going from the measured 0.228" down to 0.120". Calipers, shaft, measurements written down on paper, check, time to hit the grinder.
Yes, the tool of choice was the side of a grinding wheel in a bench grinder. Took a couple stabs, but I'm really happy with how this turned out, measured dead nuts on.
Light deburr on the corners and it was back downstairs to install it.
Pffft! Ta you, Bad Luck!
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Famous last words.

I have to take a sidebar here to clear up something. I'm used to the Scorpion/SCX shaft and slipper. It uses a pin in the shaft to index 1/2 of the slipper, and the spur mounts outside the other 1/2. Then, there's a smaller pin inside the trans to index the top gear.
Well, the trans I started with has the newer style shaft used on the 32 pitch trucks out now. It has two flats on the shaft to engage the slipper disks, and the spur mounts between them (with pads) to drag the disks along and turn the shaft. The previous owner had used a slipper eliminator that slips on the flats and then mounted the 48p spur to that. I had seen this little doo-dad before and knew I had one in my spare parts stock. I didn't understand it before, because I never saw the shaft with the flats before. On with the hilarity.

Remember me flipping off Bad Luck before, (nod), watch this.

So, I got my (surprisingly) beautifully "machined" shaft, and all my parts, here I go! Got the shaft through the bearings, tight, smooth, and good to go. Put on my slipper eliminator just as it was before, off to the races. Pop on the spur gear, the washer, and the nut, crank 'er down. Slide this back in,

are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?

The shaft's now short!

(sigh)
Options at that point, cry, debilitating stroke, fatal myocardial infarction, throw the power unit as hard as I can, (whatever gets hit, gets hit).......
Watch this kids, this is how great men succeed.

I went and checked the sheets in the dryer. (Mmm-Hmm) Little balled up, but looked pretty much dry, maybe a li'l more time, just for kicks.

Alright, back to the bench. At this point, I don't care why.......... how, how can I make this work? This'd be where in the cartoons, a light bulb would appear above my head. I knew my math was solid. I knew the shaft measured out right. what do I do?

I took the spur, slipper eliminator, and all that crap off the front end. Then I went and put my new driveshaft end (oh yeah, got a new end, and a new 3mm tap) onto the shaft and locked it down. Okay, good.



Then slid the shaft back through the bearings. Slipper eliminator, spur, washer, and nut. Good. As I tightened the nut and drew the shaft and driveshaft end down onto the bearings, it occurred to me what happened before to make the shaft short.
As I tightened the nut previously, (with nothing on the tail end of the shaft) the nut just pulled the shaft deeper and deeper, through the slipper eliminator (there's no shoulder inside there to stop the shaft). Ugh!

Well, at the end of the day, I was rewarded with this little bundle of awesome,






and somewhere I remember there was a question of having to trim the motor plate........
well, this is how much would need to be trimmed off mine, hardly worth the effort.



this is on 18/87 gears, which I think is a little high for my liking, but even if I drop to a 14t pinion, I still don't think I'll mess with trimming.

[Trubble]

And this............. will be next week's starting point.

[Trubble]

Next week...... next half a year, whichever.
Okay, just a couple updates for you guys,



If I remember correctly, for the input shaft on the transmission, I think I used an input shaft I had leftover from one of my various axle projects.



pin through the shaft, gear over pin, o-ring to hold the gear, easy-peasy.



Got the aforementioned apparatus installed in the front plate of the trans. I had to grind some mat'l off the driveshaft joint to clear the bearing retaining screw. Also took just a skosh off the face, and found a thin o-ring in my inventory to go between the joint knuckle and the bearing. The thick o-ring holds the gear rearward, the thin o-ring and knuckle hold the shaft, pin, and thus gear forwards. Found no need to use the circlip groove on the back end of the shaft.



Outdrives were looking a little bit disheveled, plus I've broken these before, so I opted to put in the Axial upgraded drives with the holes in them.



I used a couple of small o-rings I found on hand to keep the driven gear riding where I wanted it to be.







Lookin' like a winner!









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[Trubble]

Let's see what else I got for ya, Oh yeah,



Chassis time!



And just like that! Got the screws for the skid started, but left a li'l loose, put the chassis up and over onto the shock towers, and once I had it held reasonably straight/aligned, I tightened 'em up and it seemd okay enough to continue on.



Through the magic of the internet, POOF! Motor plate and trans installed.



And this......... is how low she goes! Short of figuring out how to mount the motor underneath one's skidplate, I don't know that a shafty is going to get that heavy motor any lower. Certainly gets that weight out over the front axle, though, doesn't it?









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[Trubble]

I s'pose, while I'm at it, might as well accost you with this one, too.



What the whaaaaaaaaa?
Back when I used to rebuild my failing NiMh packs, I went to Batteries Plus, and hit them up to see if they'd sell me some of the shrink wrap they use when they build packs for power tools. I got two different sizes. Sorry, though, I didn't take down what size I used to shrink-wrap the transmission. It won't be waterproof at all, but should keep errant sticks, rocks, etc from getting entangled in the gears. I would guess a couple drops of CA and a few leftover scraps of lexan would have done probably as well.
(finish post w/pics)


















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[Trubble]

Just about had your fill of me yet?
Okay, this one should bring you pretty well up to speed, then.



Suspension follies!





Couple shots from above. I elected to mount the lower links outboard of the chassis. It just crowded the area up around the motor, and I didn't see any need for triangulated links as I'll be running a panhard link/CMS on this one. I bent the lower links out to run 'bow-legged' like that to clear the chassis. The inner mounting positions in the axle perches are pretty much right about where the chassis is, so on compression the links hit. Couldn't swap the link end and shock end as the shocks are already pretty close to the chassis, even with the spacers at the top. So, it may look about as goofy as a football bat, but it works, axle's got plenty of room to move all around freely.





For the rear, I just went with the supplied (intended) locations for the links, and everything went fine back there.


After getting all this done, I measured the wheelbase, and it came up somewhere around 14ish inches or so. I was really trying to shoot for a 12.5" wb, to match a spare body I have laying around. Now I get to think about how I want to handle this.
*Leave the front axle centered, and trim the body with the rear axle kicked out, kind of reminiscent of the pulling trucks. (link)
*Center up the rear end, and have the front end kicked way out like some of the Jeep guys do for mud runs. (link)
*Center up the body and do heavy body trimming at both ends. (link)
*Or just pull the thing apart and cut every single link 1/2" shorter that they are now. SO not looking to hacksaw thin wall tubing again. Urf.


So, that's where I'm at now.
I think next up, I'm going to get the rest of the driveshafts on, and let them tell me where they wanna be. If there's just not a lot of engagement, I'll have to shorten up the links, if they're lookin' good kicked out long, then the body will likely just get hacked mercilessly.

I dunno what went wrong. I thought I tried to figure out pretty carefully what lengths I'd need on links. I either forgot to account for the amount of distance from the center of the axle to the link mounts, or forgot to subtract the distance between the link mounts at the skidplate end.

Meh, c'est la vie. Hafta hang loose for a while and see how this shakes down.

[Trubble]

Originally Posted by Trubble

I think next up, I'm going to get the rest of the driveshafts on, and let them tell me where they wanna be.

Yep, got the driveshafts on, and the front could stand to get the links shortened about 1/2". The MIPs on the rear won't even engage, so that end could probably cut out an extra 1"+ back there.

Got my answer, now just gotta make some time to get this done.

See ya around, thanks for stopping in.