Upgrading first rig

[austin-92]

Learned a lot here, thanks to everyone for that.

Alright so I’ve had my scx10ii trail honcho for about a month and I am enjoying it but I have a lot of complaints/wanted upgrades. So far I have installed beef tubes brass wheel weights
They made a difference but still not what I’m expecting out of this rig. I also added some 1:1 lead wheel weights in 2 locations.
And upgraded to a 8.4v 7 cell from the 7.2’s I had laying around. Had to mod the battery tray, used pieces from the parts tree and shoe goo. Not really willing to go LiPo with the dangers and the fact that I already have a charger that works for nimh.
If you don’t mind the wait, I got this bumper from China land off eBay for 12$ and I like it so far

I’ve also leaned the rear shocks forward and swapped the springs front-rear. Front feels right now but I’d like something softer for the rear which leads me to my first complaint. I need new shocks, these leaked after day 3 and I feel like there’s got to be more travel available from the aftermarket. Recommendations there? What do the different lengths effect?

I really feel like this rig needs more weight on the axles. I’d love to start with metal housings. I don’t want to spend 300$ on axles but I also don’t trust the 20$ ones out there. Is there a general consensus on axles? Also on weighting the axles, is there such thing as too much?

Next complaint is the servo, I’m sure you all saw this coming lol. I’ve read/watched videos of people swearing by 16$ Amazon servos, others say 40$ ones are junk and you need to spend 90$ to get a good one then there’s others saying a good servo costs 200$. It’s so confusing for someone unfamiliar with modern rc stuff.

I’m also wanting to swap motors, Brushless is foreign territory to me but I’m open to try it if it’s really worth the extra cost. right now I have my eye on the Holmes crawlmaster 13t 5 slot. Looking for a little more wheel speed but mainly off idle/start up control ability and smoothness.

I’ll end with some things on my wish list, opinions welcome

-ssd brass knuckles
-incision front universals axle shafts to eliminate dogbones
-incision stainless links, plastic stock sucks
-brass diff covers
-pitbull rock beasts on Metal beadlocks
-aluminum shock hoops
-upgrade the radio so I can run a winch, completely lost here though

Sorry for the mass amount of questions, just curious to see what everyone is running and prefers!


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[Damion10]

The Honcho is already a very good trail rig with a lot of common DIY mods that people do to enhance them.

Firstly id recommend watching Harley Designs' budget build series on the honcho, some great information there as well as some tips ( He's a great guy and really knows his stuff ). Im not saying you have to do exactly what he does but it'll give you a good guide to start from.

I know you said you don't want to swap to Lipo but here's 2 reasons to really consider it.
1) Lipos are smaller and lighter than a comparable nimh battery pack and hold their power much better with less drop off. With a 3300 2S Lipo you could get rid of the 1:1 wheel weights you put on your rig and get your weight down lower. 2) You mentioned going to a brushless setup, you'll need the power and snap of a Lipo to keep the system happy.

You say your worried about the safety of Lipo? Have a laptop or a cell phone? you my friend have Lipo batteries. They are not a bomb waiting to go off, they only need care while charging ( rate at how fast they are charged ) and a bit of care while storing them. There are many threads on here about Lipo care and such.

Good brushless systems are amazing. Notice I said good? don't cheap out here you really get what you pay for. A nice Castle or Holmes setup is a great investment and once tuned its amazing what they are capable of both low speed barely moving crawling and also capable of some good wheel speed. Again there's some great threads on here comparing the differences from brushed to brushless. Holmes hobbies has a few that are a good read. Also he has some good youtube vids showing the differences.

As far as a servo, buy the best you can afford, or save a bit longer to get a decent one. It'll be better to live with what you have for a while longer than buy a cheaper one only to have to spend more money shortly down the road to get what you should've gotten in the first place. Im not saying you have to spend $200 on a servo just set a budget and use it wisely.

I generally don't like adding weight to my rigs, it puts more load on the drivetrain and makes balancing the chassis harder, and don't always go looking for "max flex" on your suspension, while it looks cool having your front axle 90 degrees from the truck, it'll actually hurt your performance. About a tires worth of flex is about right.

Also you posted this in the SCX10 forum, look in the SCX10ii forum as that's what your rig is.
Hope this helps.

[twade984]

I think damion really summed things up well.

My opinion:

Shocks - Traxxas GTS from a trx4. Can be had for about $40-$60 on eBay pretty easily. I recommend a 2mm spacer between the seals, makes it smoother and doesn’t stick after sitting. Works well, and out of 4 sets I’ve owned I haven’t had a leak yet. Also you can reuse your axial springs, use the Traxxas springs, or I have some SSD springs on mine. Quite universal. They are 90mm btw. Which is basically the standard.

I hear good things about modified Traxxas big bores, and although I haven’t run them yet, my element shocks feel really really good out of the box.

Servo - the tactic servo is going to break before long. If you do any amount of crawling, it will strip the gears. So you will need a servo at some point. Again, my opinion, if budget is the biggest concern, a ds3218 will get the job done and is priced such that you can buy a couple for spares and not break the bank.

If performance is important, it’s going to piss you off every time you have the wheels cranked full left and a rock just rips them full right and there’s nothing you can do but back up, or power through.

Personally, I have three ds3218’s and I won’t use them anymore unless I have to. An underpowered servo lessens the fun of crawling for me, I only have so much time for my hobby, I’m going to maximize enjoyment as much as possible.
Also keep in mind, any higher power servo (say 300 oz in and up) should be powered by an external bec, factor that in to pricing when “budget” servo shopping. My $70 ecopower is pretty good, but by the time I get an external bec for $30, I could have paid $20 more for a nice Holmes shv500v3.

Motor - I can vouch for a good quality budget brushed system. Hobby wing 1080 and Holmes hobbies crawlmaster sport. $60 setup but it really is a night and day difference in smoothness and control compared to stock. I would recommend somewhere between a 12t to 8t depending on how much wheel speed you want. I think the esc has almost as much benefit as the motor though, with the tuning ability of the 1080 you can dial it right where you want it.

Personally I’m just now waiting for my first Brushless system to get here, so I don’t have much input on that side of things.

Weight - I am weight conscious. Typically the only weight I add is aluminum or steel beadlocks, and not solid brass clamping rings or any thing crazy like that. I am recently learning that good tires and proper foams can make a bigger difference than just slapping weight everywhere.

Keep in mind possible consequences with added weight, on the chassis it increases cog, and adds more strain to electronics and drive train. On wheels/rotating items, it decreases power, run time, and life expectancy of electronics and driveline. On axle is probably the most ideal as it keeps cog lower and does not have to be spun by your motor. Also keep in mind, any time you climb added weight will be fighting against you. Tires are trying to grip and extra weight is just pulling the whole truck back down.

Again this is all my opinion, I’ve only been rc crawling for about a year and a half. I have owned a 10.2 deadbolt and 10.2 Cherokee rtr, 2 trx4 sports, 1 trx4 chassis kit and am now building an element enduro kit. I myself enjoy the building/tinkering as much as the driving and I don’t comp or really desire the most capable rig at all costs. But i do enjoy rigs that work well and don’t break all the time. Also, I have spent the most money upgrading my scx10.2 deadbolt and am just now getting it to a place where I’m happy with it. All that’s left from the original kit is trans case, skid plate, and frame rails.

Consider how much you are willing to spend on upgrades, maybe it is worth adding a completely new vehicle to your fleet, perhaps one that comes stock with some of the upgrades you desire. It really just depends on what your goal is.

[austin-92]

Originally Posted by Damion10

The Honcho is already a very good trail rig with a lot of common DIY mods that people do to enhance them.

Firstly id recommend watching Harley Designs' budget build series on the honcho, some great information there as well as some tips ( He's a great guy and really knows his stuff ). Im not saying you have to do exactly what he does but it'll give you a good guide to start from.

I know you said you don't want to swap to Lipo but here's 2 reasons to really consider it.
1) Lipos are smaller and lighter than a comparable nimh battery pack and hold their power much better with less drop off. With a 3300 2S Lipo you could get rid of the 1:1 wheel weights you put on your rig and get your weight down lower. 2) You mentioned going to a brushless setup, you'll need the power and snap of a Lipo to keep the system happy.

You say your worried about the safety of Lipo? Have a laptop or a cell phone? you my friend have Lipo batteries. They are not a bomb waiting to go off, they only need care while charging ( rate at how fast they are charged ) and a bit of care while storing them. There are many threads on here about Lipo care and such.

Good brushless systems are amazing. Notice I said good? don't cheap out here you really get what you pay for. A nice Castle or Holmes setup is a great investment and once tuned its amazing what they are capable of both low speed barely moving crawling and also capable of some good wheel speed. Again there's some great threads on here comparing the differences from brushed to brushless. Holmes hobbies has a few that are a good read. Also he has some good youtube vids showing the differences.

As far as a servo, buy the best you can afford, or save a bit longer to get a decent one. It'll be better to live with what you have for a while longer than buy a cheaper one only to have to spend more money shortly down the road to get what you should've gotten in the first place. Im not saying you have to spend $200 on a servo just set a budget and use it wisely.

I generally don't like adding weight to my rigs, it puts more load on the drivetrain and makes balancing the chassis harder, and don't always go looking for "max flex" on your suspension, while it looks cool having your front axle 90 degrees from the truck, it'll actually hurt your performance. About a tires worth of flex is about right.

Also you posted this in the SCX10 forum, look in the SCX10ii forum as that's what your rig is.
Hope this helps.

I watched the entire build off between Harley designs and sbg, that’s where I got the idea for leaning the rear shocks and swapping springs, sbg is the one that recommended the brass weights I bought. Thanks for all the good info.

Didn’t catch the mistake on where I posted this, could a mod move it please?


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[austin-92]

Originally Posted by twade984

I think damion really summed things up well.

My opinion:

Shocks - Traxxas GTS from a trx4. Can be had for about $40-$60 on eBay pretty easily. I recommend a 2mm spacer between the seals, makes it smoother and doesn’t stick after sitting. Works well, and out of 4 sets I’ve owned I haven’t had a leak yet. Also you can reuse your axial springs, use the Traxxas springs, or I have some SSD springs on mine. Quite universal. They are 90mm btw. Which is basically the standard.

I hear good things about modified Traxxas big bores, and although I haven’t run them yet, my element shocks feel really really good out of the box.

Servo - the tactic servo is going to break before long. If you do any amount of crawling, it will strip the gears. So you will need a servo at some point. Again, my opinion, if budget is the biggest concern, a ds3218 will get the job done and is priced such that you can buy a couple for spares and not break the bank.

If performance is important, it’s going to piss you off every time you have the wheels cranked full left and a rock just rips them full right and there’s nothing you can do but back up, or power through.

Personally, I have three ds3218’s and I won’t use them anymore unless I have to. An underpowered servo lessens the fun of crawling for me, I only have so much time for my hobby, I’m going to maximize enjoyment as much as possible.
Also keep in mind, any higher power servo (say 300 oz in and up) should be powered by an external bec, factor that in to pricing when “budget” servo shopping. My $70 ecopower is pretty good, but by the time I get an external bec for $30, I could have paid $20 more for a nice Holmes shv500v3.

Motor - I can vouch for a good quality budget brushed system. Hobby wing 1080 and Holmes hobbies crawlmaster sport. $60 setup but it really is a night and day difference in smoothness and control compared to stock. I would recommend somewhere between a 12t to 8t depending on how much wheel speed you want. I think the esc has almost as much benefit as the motor though, with the tuning ability of the 1080 you can dial it right where you want it.

Personally I’m just now waiting for my first Brushless system to get here, so I don’t have much input on that side of things.

Weight - I am weight conscious. Typically the only weight I add is aluminum or steel beadlocks, and not solid brass clamping rings or any thing crazy like that. I am recently learning that good tires and proper foams can make a bigger difference than just slapping weight everywhere.

Keep in mind possible consequences with added weight, on the chassis it increases cog, and adds more strain to electronics and drive train. On wheels/rotating items, it decreases power, run time, and life expectancy of electronics and driveline. On axle is probably the most ideal as it keeps cog lower and does not have to be spun by your motor. Also keep in mind, any time you climb added weight will be fighting against you. Tires are trying to grip and extra weight is just pulling the whole truck back down.

Again this is all my opinion, I’ve only been rc crawling for about a year and a half. I have owned a 10.2 deadbolt and 10.2 Cherokee rtr, 2 trx4 sports, 1 trx4 chassis kit and am now building an element enduro kit. I myself enjoy the building/tinkering as much as the driving and I don’t comp or really desire the most capable rig at all costs. But i do enjoy rigs that work well and don’t break all the time. Also, I have spent the most money upgrading my scx10.2 deadbolt and am just now getting it to a place where I’m happy with it. All that’s left from the original kit is trans case, skid plate, and frame rails.

Consider how much you are willing to spend on upgrades, maybe it is worth adding a completely new vehicle to your fleet, perhaps one that comes stock with some of the upgrades you desire. It really just depends on what your goal is.

I’ve noticed the standard shock length is 90mm, is there any benefit to going longer? Like to keep the hight it’s at but could definitely use a little more droop.

The weights I added to the chassis was, one to balance side to side and 2 I wasn’t getting full compression on the rear springs.

The 8t to 12t motor you recommended, is that in a 5 slot?

Thanks for the heads up on that servo, first time I’d seen that and it looks awesome. Says it’s for 1/8 scale, would it fit in my trail honcho ok?

And of coarse I have considered adding another rig to my fleet, who hasn’t?! Lol next one will probably be a scx24 because of the price, maybe around tax time I will get a trx 4 or 6, maybe both idk


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[Damion10]

Not that you made a huge mistake, it just may have gotten some more attention in the 10.2 forum. Either way glad your on here none the less.

[lonleycreeper]

Originally Posted by austin-92

I’ve noticed the standard shock length is 90mm, is there any benefit to going longer? Like to keep the hight it’s at but could definitely use a little more droop.

The weights I added to the chassis was, one to balance side to side and 2 I wasn’t getting full compression on the rear springs.

The 8t to 12t motor you recommended, is that in a 5 slot?

Thanks for the heads up on that servo, first time I’d seen that and it looks awesome. Says it’s for 1/8 scale, would it fit in my trail honcho ok?

And of coarse I have considered adding another rig to my fleet, who hasn’t?! Lol next one will probably be a scx24 because of the price, maybe around tax time I will get a trx 4 or 6, maybe both idk


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Don't fall into the more travel rabbit hole...

The stock travel on the Honcho is plenty, imo almost too much.

The 5 slot 12t motor is what I recomend, though I have never used one. I typically use a 3 slot 35t, or 27t on 3s...

I use mine with smaller tires and everthing is stock, except a couple links up front, and the servo horn.

[twade984]

Yes, ds3218 is a standard size servo.

Also yes, crawlmaster sport is a 5 slot, so will be lower turn count compared to more common (rtr) 3 slot.

I can also recommend watching as much of Harley designs live streams as you can, there are always lots of questions and answers on there.

[austin-92]

Oh, I was asking about the size of that Holmes 500v3.

On the travel, I’ve just noticed a couple times that while high centered if it had a little more droop the tires might grab and I’d like some softer springs so it will fully stuff the tires with out the added weight.

Just took it out and was playing on my rock pile, dad called so I put the radio down and left it all on. Went back to it like 20 minutes later and it won’t respond. Battery and esc were cold, servo was warm but not hot. Esc beeps when I plug the battery in then the little red light flashes. Batteries are charging right now, fingers crossed.... Ideas?


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[austin-92]

Freshly charged batteries in the rig and controller, wheel speed was great, servo was extremely slow then wouldn’t center then the flashing light came back on in the esc. Looks like I’m buying a servo WAY sooner than anticipated. Probably have to run one of those ds3218’s for now till some extra funds come in. Unless there’s a better option under 50$?


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[austin-92]

Ds3218 finally came in the mail, I’m very happy with it although I’ve never had a 150$ servo to compare it to. It is capable of turning my steering links into U’s so I ordered an incision stainless link set.


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[Egsise]

In a month you don't learn to drive, that's the problem with performance.
I would just take it easy and build your skills.
Always upgrade the tyres first, it's a $150 upgrade with dual-stage foams and beadlocks and totally worth it.

More weight is not the always the right answer, my lightest SCX10 II is only 2.05kg/4.5lbs with battery and body and it has weight in the right places.

[austin-92]

Originally Posted by Egsise

In a month you don't learn to drive, that's the problem with performance.
I would just take it easy and build your skills.
Always upgrade the tyres first, it's a $150 upgrade with dual-stage foams and beadlocks and totally worth it.

More weight is not the always the right answer, my lightest SCX10 II is only 2.05kg/4.5lbs with battery and body and it has weight in the right places.

Don’t question my abilities. I’ve been off-roading 1:1 rigs since I could see over the dash.


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[Phildirt]

Originally Posted by austin-92

Don’t question my abilities. I’ve been off-roading 1:1 rigs since I could see over the dash.


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Me too...but new to RC. It's a different world man. Knowing how to handle a transmitter with some finesse and not break parts is an acquired skill. Don't be too proud about that and you'll learn more/make more friends. That goes with any hobby. I doubt an airline pilot could jump into RC planes and it would all translate.



As mentioned I have come to learn the best upgrades are the simplest ones, tires and foams will get you over that next line a lot more efficiently than links and servos.



Cheers

[Egsise]

Originally Posted by austin-92

Don’t question my abilities. I’ve been off-roading 1:1 rigs since I could see over the dash.


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Axial has written guides for noobs.
Axial Racing - SCX10 II Trail Honcho Truck Tips & Tricks For Noobs
Axial Racing - Crawler Setup – Key Elements
Axial Racing - SCX10 II Handling Adjustment – $3 Shock Mod
Axial Racing - Tech: Soften Your SCX10 II Suspension – For Free!


You're welcome boy.
I'm not linking the best tips to you, not until you learn the basics.

[austin-92]

Originally Posted by Phildirt

Me too...but new to RC. It's a different world man. Knowing how to handle a transmitter with some finesse and not break parts is an acquired skill. Don't be too proud about that and you'll learn more/make more friends. That goes with any hobby. I doubt an airline pilot could jump into RC planes and it would all translate.



As mentioned I have come to learn the best upgrades are the simplest ones, tires and foams will get you over that next line a lot more efficiently than links and servos.



Cheers

Not too proud, just don’t like being accused of lack of knowledge when the person knows nothing about me. I found a line that bound up the tires and bent the link, took a picture and started hitting it from another angle, that does mean I can’t drive. Thankfully there’s an ignore button on this forum.

Tires are definitely on the list, servo was a must since my stock one crapped out, links are more than strength upgrade, it’s more weight low on the rig too. This is my first rock crawler but not my first rc.


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[Shinchu]

The thing is...
Phildirt is right and was just trying to offer advise, the very thing you requested.
Dont get offended when somebody says to get more time behind the wheel.
Its true, these are way different than a 1:1.
Sure the same ideas apply, but try to keep an open mind when you ask for help and its given for free. All it costs is a little respect.

[austin-92]

Originally Posted by Shinchu

The thing is...
Phildirt is right and was just trying to offer advise, the very thing you requested.
Dont get offended when somebody says to get more time behind the wheel.
Its true, these are way different than a 1:1.
Sure the same ideas apply, but try to keep an open mind when you ask for help and its given for free. All it costs is a little respect.

I wasn’t upset with Phildirt at all, just explaining why the other guy got the response he did. I felt disrespected first which is the only reason I said what I said, I’d never pop off with something like that out of nowhere.

The picture wasn’t a lack of ability it was an observation of a potential weak link the new servo created and then I stated my remedy.

I do appreciate the good info on here


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[Egsise]

Originally Posted by austin-92

I wasn’t upset with Phildirt at all, just explaining why the other guy got the response he did. I felt disrespected first which is the only reason I said what I said, I’d never pop off with something like that out of nowhere.

The picture wasn’t a lack of ability it was an observation of a potential weak link the new servo created and then I stated my remedy.

I do appreciate the good info on here.

Do everything, upgrade the Honcho to $350 SCX10 II Cherokee RTR that comes with steel links and gears and universal joints.
Add weight, wonder why axles break and motor burns. Servos seem to get weaker and weaker. Curse the short battery life.

Then drive a stock Honcho and you notice that it's actually a decent rig.
Your skills built up over time, and all the time you thought it was the upgrades that made the rig better.