Need help: Bevel gears

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

I might have to give that a try. I already have the pinion shimmed and cannot shim it anymore or the driveshafts cant attach to the pinion.

Your issue is delicately improper pinion contact.



I am going to reply like you are an idiot, I know you are not, but it will save time mentioning all the stupid things right off the bat.


Are your bearings the correct size? I have on more then one occasion mixed transmission bearings with axle one, only to drop in a bearing that is too small id.


Are you using the right type of shims, i.e. ones that are flat, unlike punched washers?


Is your drive shaft applying pressure to your pinion, any direction.


Is your locker et al, lined up square and correctly?


Have you over shimmed the pinion causing it to push against the main gear forcing it to deflect.


Have you considered the it is a bearing retainer issue?


I think you have an axle housing issue, where the pinion is not being supported so that the gears do not mesh at a 90 degree.


I have seen hundreds of worn gears like that in my life. Every single one of them was bad shim job or the angle was off not allowing proper mesh.



Do not assume your bearings are good. Two good bearings for one of my fishing reals costs $54.00, and closer to $90.00 for the really good ones.


The bearings you are using are adequate bearings not performance, so the quality control might not be there. It is worth a double check, I am not saying replace them, just dont rule them out.


All that being said I have know idea what your issue is, but this is what I would look at.


Good Luck.


As an after thought, does your rear have this issue also? try swapping the center housing from the rear then try an strip it.

[Rekreant]

Hmmm. I went with Fast Eddy bearings because they were supposed to be the performance kind. I use the shims that come with the SSD bevel gear set. My center housings are pretty roughed up now, they are a few months old, I wonder if they are maybe the problem. Now that I think about it, Im not sure if the rear is stripping them so much as I am swapping them with the rear when I notice the clicking...When I put sideways pressure on the driveshaft at the pinion I am noticing if I push relatively hard I get some flex.

OK I just did that same thing with the rear and there is A LOT less flex there. Maybe my diamond housings are worn out. I generally make sure that the lockers are properly seated, and I just measured the bearings to make sure they are the right size and that checks out. I dont have the things that you can screw in to hold them more solid like some other axle brands have.

I feel like if I was overshimming the pinion I would notice a lot of challenge in spinning the pinion right? I dont get that, its pretty smooth. Im gonna try swapping the housings to see if that helps it. Thanks for all the input.

[Rekreant]

Im gonna order new housings of the original ssd style, that has the bearing retainers. Maybe that should help my issue. I am still open to any other advice, if anyone else notices something no one else did please chime in.

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Teng

Could it be damaged bearings? Please make sure all the bearings are sound and fit. Cheers

X2

Originally Posted by svt923

How are you shimming the gears?

Shimming the pinion to remove the in and out play is a big part with the AR44s (the design sucks the pinion in while running and possibly into the locker) but so is shimming the ring gear. Lots of people don't do second part possibly because 7mm shims are harder to find or maybe just because it requires more effort. Mesh should be tight enough that the gears feel notchy when new but they will smooth out as they break in.

X1000

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

Maybe a stupid question, but are your driveshafts in phase? I wiped out a set of bearings because of that. If that rig had more power at the time im sure it would have caused more issues.

This needs to be correct too.

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

Not to sidetrack things but your front pinion angle looks to be off (rear looks good though). I've always thought the angle should be equal and opposite, so while the driveshaft is at an angle the pinion angles are parallel with the ground.

X2, your pinion can be tilted up a few degrees, but OP's is too high.


That's a LOT of brass weight hanging off the axle housings too, like too much.


YOur pictures of the ring gear (along with your statement about shims) shows that it's not shimmed properly, you MUST do pinion and ring gears. SVT923 nailed it.

[Rekreant]

This needs to be correct too.

* Could you confirm what it means to be in phase? I asked earlier but no one gave me an answer. *

That's a LOT of brass weight hanging off the axle housings too, like too much.
* those weights are brand new, so they werent causing the stripping *

YOur pictures of the ring gear (along with your statement about shims) shows that it's not shimmed properly, you MUST do pinion and ring gears. SVT923 nailed it.

When shimming a ring gear how do I want it to go? more to the tooth side or the back side?

[HumboldtEF]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

* Could you confirm what it means to be in phase? I asked earlier but no one gave me an answer. *



When shimming a ring gear how do I want it to go? more to the tooth side or the back side?

Being in phase just means that the yokes (ends of the U joint) are inline with each other and you should have each end of the single drive shaft in phase with itself and in phase with the other driveshaft.

heres a link with some good images of phasing Driveshaft Phasing & Its Importance - Managed Mobile, Inc.

Where you put the shims depends on if its tight or loose and you'll be the final decider on that, but it seems like the gap is too large in which case you would shim behind the ring gear in order to push it closer to the pinion.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

Being in phase just means that the yokes (ends of the U joint) are inline with each other and you should have each end of the single drive shaft in phase with itself and in phase with the other driveshaft.

heres a link with some good images of phasing Driveshaft Phasing & Its Importance - Managed Mobile, Inc.

Where you put the shims depends on if its tight or loose and you'll be the final decider on that, but it seems like the gap is too large in which case you would shim behind the ring gear in order to push it closer to the pinion.

Ok thanks for the clarification.

[WHITE-TRASH]

The drivelines aren't spinning fast enough to have vibration from incorrect phasing as the cause.

Case flex could be it but I doubt it.

Put a shim between the head of the pinion and the inner pinion bearing to pull the pinion closer to the locker. 99% chance that fixed the issue.


What brand of gears have you been throwing at it? I've used stock and as well as VP version 1 with 3 screws and V2 with 6 screws and haven't had a single failure. I use the same ssd housings as rear axles on all the sportsman rigs I build and haven't had a single failure yet and you can bet your ass I'd be hearing about it if it hapoened.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

The drivelines aren't spinning fast enough to have vibration from incorrect phasing as the cause.

Case flex could be it but I doubt it.

Put a shim between the head of the pinion and the inner pinion bearing to pull the pinion closer to the locker. 99% chance that fixed the issue.


What brand of gears have you been throwing at it? I've used stock and as well as VP version 1 with 3 screws and V2 with 6 screws and haven't had a single failure. I use the same ssd housings as rear axles on all the sportsman rigs I build and haven't had a single failure yet and you can bet your ass I'd be hearing about it if it hapoened.

Ive used stock axial, vanquish, and SSD gears. I do use a shim on the inside of the pinion shaft between the pinion head and the bearings.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

Ive used stock axial, vanquish, and SSD gears. I do use a shim on the inside of the pinion shaft between the pinion head and the bearings.

How thick is the shim? I use a .48 mm fiber washer from traxxas which come out pretty close but I just picked up a bunch of different shim packs from hobbyking in .05mm, .1mm, .2mm and .3mm so I can be more precise. In rc a tight set of gears will last a whole lot longer than loose.

[Rekreant]

Its a .5mm shim that comes with the SSD gear set. The thing is, with that in place I can only use that one shim or else my driveshaft set pin cannot go through the hole on the pinion. I had also bought a set of .25mm shims by OC from the hobby shop in hopes of using those as well, but couldnt get it all to line up.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

Its a .5mm shim that comes with the SSD gear set. The thing is, with that in place I can only use that one shim or else my driveshaft set pin cannot go through the hole on the pinion. I had also bought a set of .25mm shims by OC from the hobby shop in hopes of using those as well, but couldnt get it all to line up.

Well that's odd. Same locker the whole time?

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Well that's odd. Same locker the whole time?

Yes. The SSD locker as well. Ive switched it back and forth from front to back as well too.

[WHITE-TRASH]

I'd swap centers front to rear and see if the problem follows the center at this point.

[Rekreant]

UPDATE:

So I got in the SSD pro44 scale center housings in that include bearing retainers. This housing had NO left to right play and allowed for proper shimming of the pinion. I was able to get MUCH better contact, so much so that my skipping gears no longer skip. I followed Ditchrats tips for getting it setup and it has seemingly fixed all the issues. I guess these nylon centers wear out sooner than expected, but really I should have know better(I 3d print a lot of stuff). SO with all that said, replacing the housing seems to have fixed the issue. Now if only SSD would make a metal center housing....I may end up getting the metal diff covers to help increase the rigidity.