JIA's IFS Ultra4 build

[Jacksprogis]

Just read the whole thing , Truly great build bud !
The detail on everything is astonishing .
I feel the need to IFS my wraith now , After driving the hammers for a week i prefer IFS .
The worst part is it nearly already has £1800 into it
Jack.

[1lowta]

I like the way they did the suspension on the rear of that wrexo. But Jason, your rig is definitely more badass!!!

[Lthldc]

I remember checking this out just after you started cutting the exo/wraith cage up and were still working out of a hotel room. It took me a while to find the thread again and whole-lee-zapballs. So glad I found this thread and went over every page. Amazing work dude. Would love to do an IFS build of a slightly different kind, more scale 1.9 type of truck. Gotten plenty of ideas and maybe enough motivation to have a crack after seeing these results. Only just started playing with crawlers lately and now you got me doing drawings in prep :P

Just going to throw this out there, the suspension on the front end with the ifs would be difficult to fine tune especially going from crawl to stig looking out the drivers window throwing roosters from all 4 corners.

How are you finding the shocks you are using atm, fair bit of droop which is good for the cg and handling at speed but have you thought about some type of reservoir shock setup with a small setscrew screw to adjust the pressure in the reservoir so you could adjust the dampening effect depending on what your going to be doing. Extreme concept but I thought it would be a worthy idea for a build of this level. I can imagine you've found a happy medium in the setup so far but if I learned anything from my short time racing 1/5th scale BAJA's with IF&RS the difference in a few millimeters of pre-load and weighted shock oil can make a massive difference. Obviously it would be slightly more difficult fabbing something up due to the size vs 1/5th. I know there are ones available but I'd prefer to do it with a bit more classier look.

My crawler building leaves alot to be desired but I've already modded 3 pairs of shocks and the reservoir idea I plan on doing sooner or later I thought would make a epic addition to your Ultra4!


Something similar to this would REALLY set your rig off

[1lowta]

Are those 1:1?? If not, who makes/sells them??

[Lthldc]

1:1 sorry. Next closest to those are in 1/10th scale are the King Shocks. I really want something like the fox ones tho!

[gbean]

I'm pretty sure Jason is aware of what is available...


In any case ask anyone how well the rc4wd king shocks perform.
While they look great, they are definitely not the first choice for function.

[1lowta]

Originally Posted by Lthldc

I remember checking this out just after you started cutting the exo/wraith cage up and were still working out of a hotel room. It took me a while to find the thread again and whole-lee-zapballs. So glad I found this thread and went over every page. Amazing work dude. Would love to do an IFS build of a slightly different kind, more scale 1.9 type of truck. Gotten plenty of ideas and maybe enough motivation to have a crack after seeing these results. Only just started playing with crawlers lately and now you got me doing drawings in prep :P

Just going to throw this out there, the suspension on the front end with the ifs would be difficult to fine tune especially going from crawl to stig looking out the drivers window throwing roosters from all 4 corners.

How are you finding the shocks you are using atm, fair bit of droop which is good for the cg and handling at speed but have you thought about some type of reservoir shock setup with a small setscrew screw to adjust the pressure in the reservoir so you could adjust the dampening effect depending on what your going to be doing. Extreme concept but I thought it would be a worthy idea for a build of this level. I can imagine you've found a happy medium in the setup so far but if I learned anything from my short time racing 1/5th scale BAJA's with IF&RS the difference in a few millimeters of pre-load and weighted shock oil can make a massive difference. Obviously it would be slightly more difficult fabbing something up due to the size vs 1/5th. I know there are ones available but I'd prefer to do it with a bit more classier look.

My crawler building leaves alot to be desired but I've already modded 3 pairs of shocks and the reservoir idea I plan on doing sooner or later I thought would make a epic addition to your Ultra4!


Something similar to this would REALLY set your rig off

That's what I thought. I was looking at this on my phone so I couldn't really tell. I know about the kings though.

[JasonInAugusta]

I'm happy with the suspension. The 30 weight oil seems fine in the front Pro-Line Powerstrokes (Slash rear with red pre-load spring).

While not the quality of shocks as the Pro-Lines, the Integy shocks in the rear work well, also with 30 weight. I've got a set of Hot Racing 123mm shocks here that I intend to try out, just need to get the time. Unfortunately they have the stiff springs on them, I really wish they had the soft HR springs, but they were given to me so it is what it is.

In the SA Ultra4 build I went with 15 weight oil in the same Integy shocks on the rear of that rig. There's a lot less power there, less weight transfer to the rear under acceleration, and less mayhem going on at speed.

I really need to get out and shoot video of this thing now. Such a blast to drive. I drove the majority of the G6 in 2nd gear, dropping to 1st only in the technical sections where I wanted smoother, more controlled throttle response than I had in 2nd.

I've never driven a more stable "crawler". It just hauls with a Pro4 on 3S in 2nd gear. And it really doesn't care what's in front of it.

There are a couple of things I'd like to change - like more whole axle travel in the rear. The low-slung profile comes at a price. The rear is limited in compression due to the Wraith's lower cage - it makes contact with the axle. Not a huge deal, but I know I'm not getting the full amount of whole axle travel and I'm positive it would better absorb bit hits at speed if I could squeeze more whole axle compression out of it.

BUT...I also know that with the Wraith cage making contact with the rear axle it's limiting the amount of squat in the rear under hard acceleration...so it's a tradeoff.

I'll have to go out and shoot video when the weather permits. We just had some massive rainfall here so there's a lack of dust that I want in the video.

[MotoSoul]

I was always wondering if you had any concerns with that rear suspension setup. When I was mocking up mine it seemed like I would lose 1/3 of my travel by using it.

The only solution I could come up with would be to make custom rear upper shock brackets. What you would have to do is add a lower stringer to the current triangle. This way you could mount a shorter travel shock(and higher quality) that more matches your fronts and not be limiting their travel. This way you could get a little more down travel, but still maintain your current ride height.

I have had this idea on my back burner for a while, but haven't gotten around to building it yet.

[JasonInAugusta]

What I was looking at was notching the lower section of the Wraith cage, where the bottom of the "bed" of the cage would be.

Initially I thought of notching it just enough to allow the rear axle more room to travel up in compression but it's not really been an issue. The limited compression helps on climbs and the axle is still allowed to articulate in the rocks - as much as the sway bar will allow. I'm still not worried about it, it just works so well.

Come to think of it, I'd have plenty of up travel if I removed the rear steering. The cage actually hits the drag link between the servo and knuckle - not the axle. I said axle earlier because I think of it as an assembly. I initially built the rig with only front steering, but after seeing how little throw there was in the Exo front end I decided to add rear steer. I'll take the rear steer - even if it means the drag link touches the frame once in a while.

If you want to run shorter shocks, just skip the Exo conversion on the rear and run only the Exo IFS front. The whole idea to changing the rear was to give it more of an Ultra4 look with the fastback and long shocks. The stock Wraith pieces already have mounts for shorter shocks.

[MotoSoul]

That makes good sense about the rear notching. I had considered that too, but I didn't like how it would look. I will have to pay attention and see what I can do for the front steering. I am still in the parts gathering stage, so I haven't looked at that yet. I don't want to add rear steer as I don't want the extra complications plus it just isn't used that often in an ultra 4 style car.

I want to run long shocks I just don't want it to limit my up travel by the axle truss hitting the frame. Anything I looked at that fit the length constraints was far too big to fit due to the diameter. My current shocks have 40mm of travel and I'm just working on keeping the ride height as low as possible, so that it isn't tippy.

My rear cage conversion is done already as I liked how it looked plus a friend hooked me up with a cage that had the wing mount ripped off I just meant that I haven't gotten around to making the new mounts yet.

[JasonInAugusta]

Looks good.

I understand on the rear steer, but I installed it because I wanted a dual-purpose rig and I really didn't feel like working in tight areas with just the front Exo steering.

It's weird, I made decisions based on performance in some areas, looks in others. I wanted the rear steer for tight areas so that went in.

Up front I knew I wanted a winch, but I wanted a scale looking winch for an Ultra4 car. The C.L.A.W. V2 was perfect. It's not the most powerful winch, but it looks the part and will function if/when I need it. I used it once or twice over the course of the weekend at the G6.

To gain more rear compression, try brazing up a lower section to bolt in. Something that still provides structural support but is C-notched (U-notched?) to let the axle move up.

As far as ride height and being tippy, get it built with a rear sway and see how stable it is. Ignore the cage/axle contact, pretty sure you'll find it to not be a problem. My belly pan is below the axle centerline and the rear links are flat at rest.

No BS, these things demolish a Wraith when it comes to stability and performance - especially at speed. They're much better in off-camber situations and steep downhill descents as well. We've also made climbs with these that we couldn't do with a solid axle.

On the flip side - without 4WS you'll be taking reverses. A Wraith can turn tighter. No doubt about it. Add 4WS to the IFS and tight spots aren't a problem

The low belly can be a problem if you creep through everything - or get stuck on the pipe during the Terra-X.

When I first envisioned this thing I wanted a dual-purpose rig. One rig that will excel in high-speed sections and - while not being a full-on crawler - will still make short work of the rocks.

This rig does that.

[MotoSoul]

There is no doubt that you have built a beast of a machine :P. In fact I used 2 of your early pictures as my templates for making my rough cuts on my cage. I think you had a little more of an overall plan to start with then I have lol. There are always sacrifices to be made in real life or Rc when trying to build a rig.

I'm going to go the dig route instead of the rear steer. I have seen it used in real life on the trail and since I can't afford it in full scale I might as well try it in rc. It might be enough to overcome the steering range, but maybe I can find a solution for that too when I get to that point.

I can picture the issues you have with the low belly height fairly easy. I'm usually the small truck in 1x1 so my belly pan takes some serious abuse lol.

I will look more into the sway bars as I have only just briefly considered fitting them on a this point.

I think I am going to be battling a slightly different issues with mine then yours. I'm going more for the crawler side then the desert speed side. Trying to get the most travel out of the front of an exo should be fun as I have seen some issues already. I look forward to the future evolutions of your build.

[Lthldc]

Originally Posted by gbean

I'm pretty sure Jason is aware of what is available...


In any case ask anyone how well the rc4wd king shocks perform.
While they look great, they are definitely not the first choice for function.

I know Jason would know a hell of a lot more then me about what's available. I was suggesting making a custom type of shock like these to suit his needs.

We fab up and customise everything on these things, tune the esc's custom motors, braising bar work, chassis's floor pans, rocker switch based light kits :P but it seems to me that not many people go to lengths to customise there shocks apart from swapping springs and oil's.

example is the rc4wd scale shocks. I got a pair and they are stiff as buggery. Everyone told me and i knew they were shit. Scrapped the springs for new ones I found, pulled the shafts down made some more holes on the pistons replaced the o rings and changed the oil to petroliuem based shock oil instead of silicon and they were transformed from stiff crappy cheap shocks to nice riding cheap scale shocks. It seems most just decide if its not good out of the box when it comes to shocks it's crap.

I wasn't suggesting the king shocks to Jason just replying to 1lowta regarding the fox set I posted. Cause I really want a set like that, I'll give it a shot some day.

[extractor]

Fantastic build . You realy have some tallent on fabbin !

[JasonInAugusta]

Thanks, man.

I need to get out and shoot video at some point.

[JasonInAugusta]

This thing has sat, dirty and broken, since the G6. Just haven't wanted to touch this stuff lately.

Tonight I finally started going through it and cleaning. Pulled the wheels/tires, the body panels, and give the chassis the quick clean.

Sprayed it with a little Simple Green then hit it with the air compressor. Followed that with some Windex (Simple Green leaves a residue on the surface) and hit it again with the compressor.

No water, no worries.


At the G6 the Stig's head stopped working.

The Hitec HS35 that was stuffed in his body is confirmed dead. Stig should get a transplant tomorrow.

Also pulled the seats from the interior, wiped everything down, and applied FreqEskinz Aluminum Wraith Interior sKinz

My console is a bit different, but I made it work.


I'll reassemble it, get good studio shots, and take it out for photos and video hopefully at some point in the near future.

[Rock Hoppin]

WOW... thats amazing how clean it turned out! Looks brand new!

[dybbob]

great job jason you inspire all of us. well atleast me you do lol. i had my cage all cut and pinned together and didnt like how i couldnt get the pin hole dead center.
so i got myself a half inch peice of round stainless stock then center drilled it with a small bit the followed that with a 1/4in bit and its a perfect jig for drilling dead center
of anything thats 1/4in round stock like the tubes on the cage.

[JasonInAugusta]

Originally Posted by Rock Hoppin

WOW... thats amazing how clean it turned out! Looks brand new!

Yeah, all the people I've showed that trick to have been amazed at how well (and how quickly) it works.

Originally Posted by dybbob

great job jason you inspire all of us. well atleast me you do lol. i had my cage all cut and pinned together and didnt like how i couldnt get the pin hole dead center.
so i got myself a half inch peice of round stainless stock then center drilled it with a small bit the followed that with a 1/4in bit and its a perfect jig for drilling dead center
of anything thats 1/4in round stock like the tubes on the cage.

There ya go! A drill guide is definitely handy.