AR60 Pinion Bushings vs Bearings vs Bushings Thread

[Exocaged]

they can keep their "scale" looks on the outside with a scx10 outer wheel bearing as its 1mm wider, then on the inside they can go with a larger bearing and keep it fairly well hidden.

[tnt-salvage]

i just want to make this clear for my self, what i believe your saying is the HPI bushings are better then the traxxas bushings? i am going to install the roc 412 3100kv in my wraith and i dont want a bearing to fail.

[TheScaleAddict]

Originally Posted by tnt-salvage

i just want to make this clear for my self, what i believe your saying is the HPI bushings are better then the traxxas bushings? i am going to install the roc 412 3100kv in my wraith and i dont want a bearing to fail.

If you get the ones I noted to get in the initial post, they are indeed harder, and therefore, 'better' for the application than the Traxxas bushings. However, the SECOND the VP bushings hit the market, they will be MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, better than the HPI bushings.

[TheScaleAddict]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

Because bearings are better, that's why they exist.

Yeah...... Not so much Mr. Foot In Mouth. The bearings in question are very small bearings. To get the bearings that small, you have to use, wait for it.... less material. Less material = weakness. If I were to put bearings in Fiona, she'd demolish them in a VERY efficient manner. If your wraith has real intestinal fortitude, those bearings are worthless at the pinion. That's all there is to it. Bushings are the ONLY way to go for the few of us who build wraiths as I, Harley, and a very select few others do. (comparatively to the whole RC user base)

Here's Fiona getting a little bit frisky... Funny thing is, that isn't even full throttle. I was searching for 'just right' to get her to land on all four. She's a wheel lifter on the straits, which is impressive, given that she is FAR from being a lightweight.

[bronc4now]

Originally Posted by Gravebane525

if theese things can rust some eezox would help. its a gun lube that goes on and drys and is one of the best things I've seen for protecting metal from elemental exposure. it also provides some lubrication properties after its dried. it comes in a spray can (way way more then you need comes out) and a needle dropper which is much better.

I just put my hpi bushings in and there not the gray steel in the pics so maybe no rust issues here.. it looks like bronze to me..And good fit gear mesh no shims..
I'll see how long they last ccompared to a bearing..

[TheScaleAddict]

Originally Posted by bronc4now

I just put my hpi bushings in and there not the gray steel in the pics so maybe no rust issues here.. it looks like bronze to me..And good fit gear mesh no shims..
I'll see how long they last ccompared to a bearing..

Those are the 'softer' HPI bearings. They won't last as long as the others. Really, it depends on your motor/esc/battery combination. What are you running?

[bronc4now]

3800kv 4pole revtech...but only 2s lipo for now..

[TheScaleAddict]

Originally Posted by bronc4now

3800kv 4pole revtech...but only 2s lipo for now..

They should last a good while then. 3S brings out the monster...

[redxz]

Any updates on the Vanquish Products bushing?!

[Dostradamas]

More data for the great bearing debate.
http://www.skf.com/files/099926.pdf

Bearing failure pdf by SKF (huge world supplier of bearings)

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by cephas

If your wraith has real intestinal fortitude, those bearings are worthless at the pinion. That's all there is to it.

Haha! Yeah, Rowdy! You don't know squat because you don't have a wraith with big power running through it.........oh wait.....yes, you do.

I guess some people are just lucky...

Originally Posted by cephas

Bushings are the ONLY way to go for the few of us who build wraiths as I, Harley, and a very select few others do. (comparatively to the whole RC user base)

So, for the rest of us poor schmoes, bearings should be just fine then, 'eh? Bushings are only for you "top dog" builders?

[ROWDY RACING]

I guess a pro4, 3s, and summit trans isn't enough fortitude.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

I guess a pro4, 3s, and summit trans isn't enough fortitude.

I think the builder just isnt among the "select few"......

[meatmonkey]

While I don't rapidly disintegrate the pinion bearings in my Wraith, they certainly do wear out faster than I'd like.

Someone casually mentioned a mod to place a larger 3rd pinion bearing inside the axle housing. Are their any specifics on this such as bearing size or how to retain it in the housing? I know the HD gears do have a spot on the pinion gear that seems like it would easily accept a bearing, but I have no idea how the housing would accept the outside of the bearing. Any idea's? I feel that adding a 3rd bearing would extend the lifespan of the other, smaller, pinion bearings.

I only think of this because I know that my Wraith doesn't munch trans output bearings as fast as my SCX and AX-10. I attribute this to the very large 3rd bearing on the output shaft and thought that the same idea could be benificial for the pinion gears.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by meatmonkey

While I don't rapidly disintegrate the pinion bearings in my Wraith, they certainly do wear out faster than I'd like.

What rate are we talking about? I have yet to have one fail in almost two years of running my wraith.

[Agama]

I'm wondering if has to do more with what axle housings you are running. In my wife's wraith and in mine we are both running Pro4 3300, RX8, 3 cell lipos, with AX2 two speed transmissions. This past G6 series, I think 7 events, I went through 2 sets of Fast Eddie bearings and one set of gears. Mrs rig, still on original FE bearings. The only difference I'm running RC4WD aluminum housings and she is running stock housings with VP goodies. I do tend to drive quite a bit harder though. Needless to say, I can't wait for these VP bushings to be released.

[Dostradamas]

I think this whole situation only comes up when you have lots of power & too much pinion angle.
The bearings wear because of side load not because they spin too fast.

There is as well the factor of pushing the limits of the components.
If you need multiple sets of bearings & gears to complete an event the course is abusing the rigs.
When will someone just start making $500 axles with all this wear & tear covered.
Hardened steel axle cases, chrome moly gears, more than hobby grade bearings etc.
Obviously price is no object, finishing is.

Bushings are merely helping the symptom without addressing the real problem

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by Dostradamas

I think this whole situation only comes up when you have lots of power & too much pinion angle.
The bearings wear because of side load not because they spin too fast.

I didn't think anyone was talking about the bearings spinning to fast but I may have missed it. It's certainly not the case. The upper trans bearings don't suffer the same fate and they spin much faster. The simple fact is that the bearings were never made to handle the thrust load that we place on them.

[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by nigels_world

The simple fact is that the bearings were never made to handle the thrust load that we place on them.

So you agree pinion angle is the main culprit?

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by Dostradamas

I think this whole situation only comes up when you have lots of power & too much pinion angle.
The bearings wear because of side load not because they spin too fast.

There is as well the factor of pushing the limits of the components.
If you need multiple sets of bearings & gears to complete an event the course is abusing the rigs.
When will someone just start making $500 axles with all this wear & tear covered.
Hardened steel axle cases, chrome moly gears, more than hobby grade bearings etc.
Obviously price is no object, finishing is.

Bushings are merely helping the symptom without addressing the real problem

I started my other post before this was added. The problem with what you are talking about is that they would no longer work with the truck you started with. Sure we won't have axle issues if we put mad force axles under a losi mini but that doesn't make the mini more reliable or capable.