Wraith CMS without panhard

[ed701]

Has anyone ran a cms without using the panhard bar. Vanquish says that it is possible but have never seen it.

[JDIRCC]

I do. I don't have any pics but i bought the vanquish cms and installed and bam….it works lol

[Lentsnh2012]

It is possible to use it without the panhard kit, but it's highly recommended so that you don't get bumpsteer or loose steering throw.

[darkstar]

I had it installed, and I lost a ton of steering, because I didn't use the panhard with it. I've since moved the servo back to the axle.

[Sh0rtBus]

How do you end up losing steering throw....what causes the loss?

[JDIRCC]

I lost a little steering throw but not too bad. but the way my suspension is set up, mine sits a little lower/closer to the axles. so mine didn't change the drag link angle quite as much as others

[allanon1965]

Originally Posted by Sh0rtBus

How do you end up losing steering throw....what causes the loss?

depending on height, the body moves before moving the tires....path of least resistance sort of thing..the servo will push or pull the body until it binds, then the wheels will turn...just like a 1:1 jeep with a broken track bar in front...if you have ever seen this, the front of the body will move when you try to steer..I have seen them move several inches side to side! Its really kinda funny to watch lol

[Meatwad]

If you do cms, just do the panhard...

[ed701]

I am sorry I should also add this is going on a 1.9 with droop suspension. In order to get the panhard mount you have to order all the other stuff that would fit the stock axles. I hate to buy a full kit for 1 piece.

[Sh0rtBus]

Originally Posted by allanon1965

depending on height, the body moves before moving the tires....path of least resistance sort of thing..the servo will push or pull the body until it binds, then the wheels will turn...just like a 1:1 jeep with a broken track bar in front...if you have ever seen this, the front of the body will move when you try to steer..I have seen them move several inches side to side! Its really kinda funny to watch lol

So in other words...1/10th scale death wobble. Never seen a rig at slow speed with a broken track bar, but a buddy just had his front track bar bracket welds break @ 70mph. Scary stuff

[allanon1965]

well sort of...the jeep death wobble is actually caused by multiple issues all occurring at the same time, thats why not every jeep has that death wobble. our shop solved 99% of those issues with a larger diameter steering dampener, usually a rancho 5000 steering stabilizer..but yes the death wobble at highway speeds is a scary thing!

[Jcplante]

Sure is! My 1:1 zj trail rig has some mean death wobble that I just can't seem to cure. No fun.

[evan03]

Kinda funny a shop cures death wobble buy selling a cheap as rancho steering stabilizer kit.

The shop solved none of the issues only masked them until the rancho goes to shit

[allanon1965]

we only did what the customer would pay for, the wobble is usually caused by a multitude of problems, such as but not limited to, out of balance tires/bent rims, oversized tires with weak/loose stock front end components alignment angles out of spec, sometimes due to bent/damaged axle tubes or other parts. The death wobble always starts when the front end hits a dip or bump in the road, or an out of balance condition cycle starts with one of the front wheels/tires. The only prerequisite we require is that any and all loose front end part are replaced at the same time. Even with the front end tight the wobble remains due to the other issuses.

by the time the problems are found, noted and estimated for repair, most of the customers opt for the cheap fix and the rancho fix has been a very good option, never have I had one come back in the years I have been doing these, for a defective stabilizer. The main reason it helps is that it is much beefier than the stock stabilizer so it helps stabilize the steering when the front end has larger/oversized tires installed, which magnifies the problem tenfold.

[Dostradamas]

It is worth noting (again) Chassis Mounted Servos & pan hard bars are for looks & scale points, not better steering.
Properly set up axle mount will always work your servo less & have tighter, faster steering response.

CMS without panhard is wasting lots of servo power & will have bumpsteer.

[evan03]

Now that was a much better explanation. I have seen a few dodge trucks fight death wobble. One of our work trucks did it bad. I fixed it but don't know what parts fixed it and am still scared to drive that truck over 60

[allanon1965]

dodges are usually caused by a combination of tight ball joints and weak tie rod ends...funny how a ball joint that is too tight will cause a wandering/wobble condition... but it does due to the fact that as a vehicle goes down the road and follows the dips and unevenness of the road....its the alignment angles that try to keep the wheels going straight. If there is binding in the ball joints, then the angles cant correct for the road conditions so the driver has to by moving the steering wheel back and forth the keep the wheels straight, hence, the "it wanders all over the road" complaint

[evan03]

Death wobble is when a rig literally bounces off the road and becomes undrivable.

Sorry OT

[Jcplante]

Originally Posted by evan03

Death wobble is when a rig literally bounces off the road and becomes undrivable.

Sorry OT

Yep I can vouch for that! My front end bounces so bad when it happens that I'm amazed nothing has fallen apart yet. Its at the undrivable point now. It happens almost constantly if it goes over 25mph. Can't even drive it the 5 miles to the trails anymore :(

[Sevastra]

Originally Posted by Dostradamas

It is worth noting (again) Chassis Mounted Servos & pan hard bars are for looks & scale points, not better steering.
Properly set up axle mount will always work your servo less & have tighter, faster steering response.

CMS without panhard is wasting lots of servo power & will have bumpsteer.

Got CMS on my goat. Tight steering angles once properly set up, but even my Savox SA-1231SG servo (444.4 oz-in torque) wont turn the wheels without the rig moving. Weighs aprox 8/9 lbs. I havent lost any articulation either, plenty of clearance as well but it should be noted that I'm running a custom chassis.