CMS and Panhard for 1.9 Wraith? I'm getting confusssssssssed

[TrilloThrillo110]

Alright, I haven't bought it yet, but I'm looking at buying a 1.9 Wraith, with SCX10 axles. Now, I want to do a CMS (Chassis Mounted Servo) conversion using the VP servo mount. But, their panhard kit is confusing me as some people say you have to have the CMS kit work properly. But Tom at VP said that the panhard kit is not required for the CMS set up, soooooo, I'm confused. Now, if this was a Wraith running AR60s, I'd just go and pick up both, but, it doesn't have AR60s. So, will the panhard kit work with SCX10 axles (I'll probably need to trim the length of the panhard link) but will all the mounts work. And has anybody already done this with a 1.9 Wraith, because if you have, help would be very much appreciated. I just don't want to waste my money buying things that won't work so please help. Thanks a lot, Trillo

EDIT:

Shopping List:
STRC Wraith CMS Kit w/ Panhard Mount
STRC Aluminium Track Rod
Tie Rod (????? )

[johnnyh66]

The VP AR60 axle side mount will not mount on an SCX10 axle... different axle design.

[TrilloThrillo110]

Cool, thanks, that's what I needed to know. So, how would I get the panhard kit to work? Use the SCX10 one and mix it with the Wraith kit or just go without the panhard set up?

[TrilloThrillo110]

Another Question

Either way, I'm going to be getting new aluminium steering links for the SCX10 axles. They are done by STRC but I've come across another Q.
The upgraded steering link set won't include one that is long enough to reach up to the CMS mount will it? So will I also have to buy the STRC Wraith Aluminium Steering Upgrade Kit for the tie rod as well as the STRC SCX10 Aluminium Steering Upgrade Kit for it's track rod?
I know, I know. I can all hear you 'Make the links yourself, blah blah blah I would like to, but I really don't have the time to, as homework, schoolwork and my 1:1 take up most my life (currently), not mention eating and sleeping Even when I do get a good chunk of time it has to line up with a good chunk of Dad's time cause (yes, I know, I'm getting myself into a bigger hole ) I can't really do the fabrication without Dad (yet) (I'm only 14), so a Precut set is just soooo much easier, meaning I can just work away in my own good time, plus I know it'll be right first time. Rant over

[OSRC]

I modified a Level3 kit. Only used the chassis mount for the servo/panhard mount. Other side is mounted right on the axle on the existing holes on top the axle - just used a few spacers to get the geometry correct.




Older pic when mocking up....might be easier to see.


Tom is correct when he says you don't need a panhard bar with a CMS. Technically. You can use a 4 link set-up on the axle and just mount the servo up top. Takes a little work usually to get decent steering out of it.

Using a panhard is basically locating the 4th link laterally, and controls the motion of the axle side to side. I personally, don't like a 4-link/CMS set-up, much prefer using a panhard with the servo chassis mounted.

[TrilloThrillo110]

So what tie rod did you use?
And how did you mount the panhard rod to the axles? Did you use a mount that came with the kit? And what panhard kit did you use, the SCx10 or the Wraith one.
Thanks

[btoungette]

I run the VP CMS chassis mount on my 1.9 Wraith. I have used both the Hand Bros axle mount and the BPC axle mount. I used Axial threaded aluminum links for the panhard and drag link with the Hand Bros kit. I had to make a panhard link from threaded rod to use with the BPC set-up (I was still able to use the same drag link). I do have slight bump-steer with the BPC set-up, but nothing a little adjustment can't fix. It's not noticeable enough for me to have fixed it yet.

Attached are some photos of both set-ups.

[sic1to]

Vp cms is great! I would get the VP panhard 3link mount for scx.
SCX10 Axle Panhard 3 Link Mount Black - Vanquish Products
Then all ya need is drag link & panhard, you can make it pretty easy or mock it with all thread then send eye to eye measurements to Dlux fab & get titanium links made?

[TrilloThrillo110]

Cool!
But where would I mount the SCX10 Panhard kit on the Wraith tube cage?

[TrilloThrillo110]

Alright, just ahd another look at RPP, and found something that I hadn't thought of (even though it was right in front of me ) Use the STRC CMS mount as it has a panhard mount incorporated into it and use the Vanquish SCX10 3 link panhard mount for the axle. This has let me to another question. Is the Tie Rod that STRC puts in with the Wraith CMS Kit interally threaded because I'm guessing it will need to be cut down to length for the Tie Rod to be the correct length for an SCX10 axle. Also, am I right in saying that. I have updated the list at the top

[sic1to]

Originally Posted by TrilloThrillo110

Cool!
But where would I mount the SCX10 Panhard kit on the Wraith tube cage?

The panhard mount is on both cms kits vp & strc! Both will work for wraith but you will need the scx panhard 3link axle mount. Yes it is threaded but I dont know if threads go far enough after ya cut it? I would go with the VP products only because they sale them individually & I like the clamping method on vp cms vs set screws on strc!

[TrilloThrillo110]

Originally Posted by sic1to

The panhard mount is on both cms kits vp & strc!

Sorry bro but I think you're wrong on the VP mount have a Panhard mount as well.
There are three reasons I say this

1. I can't see one
2. Why would the Panhard kit come with a bracket if there was one on the CMS mount?
3. The guy in the video (below) screws the Panhard mount onto the back of the CMS mount. Why would he do this if there was one on the CMS mount?



This brings me to my next question. Does anyone know where I can get the VP Panhard mount seperate from all the other stuff in the kit?

Thanks,
Trillo

[sic1to]

If you buy the "complete kit" it does.The chassis panhard mount comes with the axle kit! I have seen few on classifieds sepatate. I own both strc & vp cms kits for wraith just like vp design better. Buy a star & just buy ony on for sale thread or just get strc cms kit either way?

[TrilloThrillo110]

A star is not required to veiw the classifieds

So, if I don't find a seperate VP mount then I will go with the STRC CMS and Panhard mount + the VP SCX10 axle mount.
But, I now have another question for people running 1.9 Wraiths.

How long is your tie rod? I'd just like to get a rough estimate at how long I'll need it.

[OSRC]

Originally Posted by TrilloThrillo110

So what tie rod did you use?
And how did you mount the panhard rod to the axles? Did you use a mount that came with the kit? And what panhard kit did you use, the SCx10 or the Wraith one.
Thanks

I used a Wraith CMS kit from level3. All I used out of it was the servo/panhard mount that you see in the chassis.

The panhard link is bolted straight to the axle, there are no third party parts on the SCX10 axle at all. There are 2 holes on top of the axle casing, just bolted the link into one of those holes. You're overthinking this part I think.

As far as links, I just figured out what lengths i needed, and scrounged around in my box. Used an Axial part for one, and I think the other was from a tmaxx or something.

[josh6575]

TrilloThrillo110

Where did you get that front bumper and winch mount from?

[TrilloThrillo110]

Originally Posted by josh6575

TrilloThrillo110

Where did you get that front bumper and winch mount from?

, Er, it wasn't me. It was OSRC

[TrilloThrillo110]

Originally Posted by OSRC

The panhard link is bolted straight to the axle, there are no third party parts on the SCX10 axle at all. There are 2 holes on top of the axle casing, just bolted the link into one of those holes. You're overthinking this part I think.

Cool, I didn't realise this. Thank you! $20, SAVED!!!! I see you use a spacer, what is it (I know bad wording but I don't know what to say

[josh6575]

Originally Posted by TrilloThrillo110

, Er, it wasn't me. It was OSRC

Oops!

[gottorque]

Alright, I figured Id throw my .02 in

The Axle side panhard mount in the video posted will not work as its for an AR60, like johnnyh66 said.
What does work is this SCX10 Axle Panhard 3 Link Mount Black - Vanquish Products in addition to your cms kit (whichever brand you choose). I would not suggest screwing the axle side of your panhard right into one of the holes on the axles. It wouldn't take much force to strip out that hole and out comes your panhard bar and likely ending your run for the day.

As for link lengths, every 1.9 wraith is set up differently so one guys links might not work on another. While i hate to be that guy, I would suggest learning how to make your own links. There are plenty of good write ups on the forum, not to mention it is invalueble in in building rigs and super easy.

Any way, here are a couple pics of my setup I finished tonight. The top servo mount is all custom but you can see that VP mount. It ties into one of the axle housing bolts in addition to a hole on the axle housing