What should I buy? 2speed trans or new motor

[monster693]

Hey guys my first post here. So I bought a wraith a few months ago and its my first crawler and first rc in 20 years. So needless to say all the new electronics and brushless motors are pretty foreign to me. I want to set this up for crawling and currently it has the axial ae-2 esc and a rc4wd 35t motor and 2s lipo. It crawles ok, speed is good but still feels like it lacks on torque until I give it some throttle and get the speed up a little which makes it to fast for crawling. Right now its just a little faster then walking speed at WOT and I feel like it would have a hard time with a loose dirt hill climb, not enough wheel speed. So my question is what would be better to upgrade, the motor or the trans? What I want is a little more bottom end power and occasionally more top end speed but I still want it to crawl. I know I am asking for a lot but what can I have? I am leaning towards a Holmes Crawlmaster Pro 13t. What would you recommend?

[mikebecher]

Go brushless and throw a HH Puller Pro in there, that'll solve all your torque and speed issues!

[Thechewmaster]

Originally Posted by mikebecher

Go brushless and throw a HH Puller Pro in there, that'll solve all your torque and speed issues!

This is correct, but also lots of investment, trust me, just put in a BLE and HH puller pro 540s. Awesome motor, great speed and low end. However, it really sounds like you just need a 3s battery.

I ran almost this exact same set up in my regular wraith (set up for crawling), I just had a 27t Axial junk motor instead of a rc4wd. When i stepped up from 2s to 3s I felt my feelings on the truck totally change. Has plenty of top end speed, and crawls great and has the torque I wanted. I did't change anything except for adding a Castle Creations BEC, which IMO is pretty necessary in a Wraith. Try a 3s battery and see how you like it, you will want the 3s in the future anyways.

[SCREAMER]

If you do decide to go with the Crawlmaster 13t make sure you run 56/10 gearing because that motor is prone to overheating on anything lower (numerically) than 5.5:1 final drive ratio. I have the CM 13t in my Deadbolt on 3s and it is nice. In any Wraith, I'd go brushless. Even on 2s it's sooooo much nicer than brushed, if you get a great sensored motor that is, like a Roc412 or the awesome Holmes 540 puller pro.

[monster693]

Thanks guys. So what's a BLE? Being new I took the recommendation of the guy at hobby town and bought 2 Venom 5000mah 2s batteries and I would hate like hell to feel like I wasted $100 on them. So I think I will go,with a new motor for now and battery later. Is the Holmes pro puller the best out there? What turn should I get. Either way I have been having a ton of fun with it. Talked my dad into getting a crawler also, he went with the gmade r1 though.

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[68_f100]

brushless and 2 speed. Thats full of win.

[Pabust]

Sensored brushless and AX-2 is great for crawling and for high speed FOFF style driving

[altd896]

Change to 3s, sell the 2s packs or save them for the R1.
Even the brushless options will be lousy on 2s so just changing out won't solve what your looking for.

Get a couple of 3s packs, a $22 Castle external BEC & a $6 Holmes rx adaptor and you'll be happy for a fairly limited investment.

It's that or throw in PullerPro BL540 3500kv.html & TrailMaster BLE & be extremely happy but $280 lighter in the pocket, but you'll still want the BEC, adaptor & 3s batteries.

[monster693]

So again with my lack of current knowledge with RC stuff I thought brushless motors were better for speed and brushed motors better for crawling. Can someone please explain why I am wrong? Thanks

[altd896]

Your right but, it depends how much speed your looking for, brushed is still best for slow speed control.
You already said the speed was ok with the 35t, simply changing up to 3s will increase the speed but will also increase the torque you were looking for.
You could even go down 1 or 2 on the pinion, will drop the speed back nearer to current but increase torque further.
Talking about speeds of 8-12 mph here.

For faster like for U4RC racing where we're looking for 20-25mph brushless is king, sensored if you want some slow control from some crawling too.

[AWraith build]

I'm a fan of a nice sensored setup in my rigs. There are a lot of motors that are just as smooth as a brushed setup. I like to stay around a 2500kv and change between 3-4s depending on what I'm doing. It gets confusing with kv and turns 2pole 4pole 540 can and 550 can sensored sensorless bc most company's are different. I like to think as a 2 pole is a 6 cylinder and a 4 pole an 8. Then depending on the batt volts you put to it is how built it is. In my wraith trail rig I ran a tekin redline 17.5 2500kv 2 pole on 3s and it was a nice setup for super slow crawling but still had some getup. That is also what I run in my scx. On my u4 wraith and yeti I run a tekin pro4 hd 2500 and 3000kv. On that setup u can crawl and go fast on 4s. But the power will find every weekends. Befor spending any money I would research and figure out what u really want to do or may go with your rig in the future.

[monster693]

cool thanks for the info guys. So it seems like everybody agrees that a 3s lipo is what I need. As far as a motor is concerned a brushed HH 13t crawler master would be a great choice? What would be the best brushless system for crawling? Weighing my options here. I know I am starting to get off topic here so if there is already a thread about this sorry.

[sic1to]

No worries!!!
My 1st pick would be,
.... Holmes Hobbie(HH) BLE esc its brushed or brushless!
.... HH trailmaster 3100kv's to 3500kv pro pullerXL's brushless motors or Tekin roc 412 3100kv to3000kv-4000kv hd(larger)motors

If i was goin brushed but never would on a wraith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HH BLE with 13t trailmaster sport or crawlmaster sport! The pro vrawlmasters are amazing but for diff application imo.

2speed is just another fail point thats not needed.

Either works but remember brushed is more friendly on stockish drivetrain brushless is NOT!

[AWraith build]

The other reason I go with a lower kv motor in my trail rigs is u can volt up gear down for longer run times cooler motor. I don't know I'd run time is super important to u but that's something to keep in mind.

[68_f100]

I'm running the ax2 in my wraith on 2s with a roc412 3100. I get cool temps, long run time, great crawling speed in first and will drag the back bumper in 2nd. Top speed is 19.4 mph in 2nd. Makes a nice well rounded crawler/trail rig. It's controllable and predictable power. I ran it on 3s and it was faster and hotter but that's it. I don't bash so I don't see any benefit to running 3s.

[AWraith build]

Originally Posted by 68_f100

I'm running the ax2 in my wraith on 2s with a roc412 3100. I get cool temps, long run time, great crawling speed in first and will drag the back bumper in 2nd. Top speed is 19.4 mph in 2nd. Makes a nice well rounded crawler/trail rig. It's controllable and predictable power. I ran it on 3s and it was faster and hotter but that's it. I don't bash so I don't see any benefit to running 3s.

Really the only benefit would be gearing it down and getting longer run times and a cooler motor. But at that now he is in a tranny and motor and esc. I ran 2s for ever. Kinda nice bc u break less. Lol

[68_f100]

Originally Posted by AWraith build

Really the only benefit would be gearing it down and getting longer run times and a cooler motor. But at that now he is in a tranny and motor and esc. I ran 2s for ever. Kinda nice bc u break less. Lol

That's the other reason I like 2s. I can wheel all day and not tear up a bunch of stuff.

[altd896]

I can wheel all day on 3s, not tear up anything and don't have a heavier trans & servo on my rig, I also saved $150.
That's one of those "each to their own" kinda situations, there is no perfect right answer, there's a couple of ways of achieving very similar results.

One thing on the brushed motors, I saw a recommendation up there of a 13t Trailmaster, that is completely the wrong motor for a heavy Wraith, the 13t Crawlmaster with the correct gearing would be an option though.
We're getting into the difference between 3 slot (Torquemaster) or 5 slot (Crawlmaster) armatures here & it's important not to mess that up because it will release the blue smelly smoke & cost you a motor.
http://holmeshobbies.com/info/3-slot-vs-5-slot/

[Necrotron]

HH I cannot personally vouch for, but i have a novak sensored brushless crawler 13.5 t on a 2 cell and it has all kinds of torque and decent top end speed, which it takes no time to get to. a bit less of a financial investment but still top quality.

[sic1to]

Originally Posted by altd896

I can wheel all day on 3s, not tear up anything and don't have a heavier trans & servo on my rig, I also saved $150.
That's one of those "each to their own" kinda situations, there is no perfect right answer, there's a couple of ways of achieving very similar results.

One thing on the brushed motors, I saw a recommendation up there of a 13t Trailmaster, that is completely the wrong motor for a heavy Wraith, the 13t Crawlmaster with the correct gearing would be an option though.
We're getting into the difference between 3 slot (Torquemaster) or 5 slot (Crawlmaster) armatures here & it's important not to mess that up because it will release the blue smelly smoke & cost you a motor.
http://holmeshobbies.com/info/3-slot-vs-5-slot/

REALLY?????

READ THIS!
From JRH himself...
There's nothing like the feel of brushed! If you're looking for a solid general purpose brushed motor, our*TorqueMaster*series motors are great for a mix of crawling and trailing, and provide better than stock performance in most cases. The*CrawlMasterseries offers the best possible slow speed control and smooth operation for pure crawling performance. If you are out competing and need every last ounce of oomph from your motor, the*Puller*series are unmatched.

So in closing be careful you will burn a crawlmaster up with improper gearing or trying to achieve more than stock wheelspeed BECAUSE its designed to crawl! I got 13t cm im a scx but not a Wraith!!! I post to help others not to down or promote anybodys product. Its easy to read posts & THINK ya know whats needed vs knowing by using these products mentioned