Wraith setup for crawling

[hairumuffin]

Hi guys, i need help setting up a my wraith for crawling.. Im a pro racer but when it comes to setting up a crawler, i have very little knowledge.. I want it to perform.. I know link placement is key and so is shock angle..
My current setup is
Losi shocks 30wt all around
All electronics up front
No weight added
Proline "xl"interco tires.. Im thinking, my tires might not be the best for traction.. I know in racing,tires are key
I have stock gearing.. I have under drive and over drive gears but not installed..
Is there any setup sheets to show shock location or link placement to give better overall traction???

[mikebecher]

There's not much adjustment available for the shocks and none for links but they're pretty good in the stock locations. It's not as important on the Wraith as it would be for a comp crawler or racer.

One of the most important mods for the Wraith is to get the center of gravity down, even at the expense of some ground clearance. You can get a lowering kit which will also give you additional shock mount points. Tune your shocks with a bit of droop to further reduce the ride height.

You should do the battery up front mod if you haven't already.

The Proline Super Swamper XLs are actually very good tires and get better as they break-in but the foams that come with them are way too big. Get some Crawler Innovations Double Deuce foams which makes a world of difference.

Put your overdrive gears in the front and underdrive in the rear. You might have problems with the overdrive - the mesh is not so good on those. If it starts to slip put standard ratio diff gears up front.

It looks like you're on the right track. There's no silver bullet for the suspension setup, mostly it's trial and error combined with your driving style.

[hairumuffin]

Yea, i have the up front battery.. I will get the lowering kit.. I guess im looking for comp crawler performance from a scaler? But i have seen some wraiths perform pretty good on video.. I will definately get the foams, i did trim the pl foams but yea,they were huge! Thanks

[Jindustries]

Keep us posted on the setup changes and what you liked. I'd like a little more out of mine but not sure what to change.

[linklemming]

Originally Posted by hairumuffin

Yea, i have the up front battery.. I will get the lowering kit.. I guess im looking for comp crawler performance from a scaler? But i have seen some wraiths perform pretty good on video.. I will definately get the foams, i did trim the pl foams but yea,they were huge! Thanks

If your really focusing on crawling it might be helpful to go to some softer springs. This will cause the wraith to sag more and be lower overall and will increase articulation. I am using 1.43# springs and the difference was noticable compared to the stock springs, some guys even go softer to 1# or so. Do this and flip the rear shock mounts upside down on the chassis and you shouldnt need a lowering kit.

Stickier tires definately help. I am using R35 ripsaws with CI Double Deuce Foams and think they are awesome. There are probably better tires (lots of opinions on this) but the ripsaws work fine for me.

Definately install the OD front/UD rear.

Might want to consider a motor better suited to crawling. I LOVE my Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster Expert 13t with a 10t pinion. Probably the most significant upgrade to my wraith for crawling

[hairumuffin]

As it turns out,i have the dmg stiffy kit and the shock mounts are already setup for running lower.. I read more on articulation, and my rig has a lot! Im gonna limit the shocks a few mm.. Im running a integy 35t..pulls great for me,on 3s. Why do guys run such a low turn motor(13t)? lower turn motors have less torque and more top speed? I dont wanna go fast

[valheru]

I know exactly where you are coming from as I bought my RTR wraith this March and I was initially lost in a sea of videos/threads and wants, but there is tons of good info here, the only issues is that a lot of it is buried and spread out in bits and pieces.

A very good place to start is with the stickies in the Wraith sub-forum, especially Harley's Wraith Beginners Guide. Having spent the last few months reading a couple hours almost every day, and with my back ground of mechanical engineering, design, fabrication, 1:1 track racing and a "slight" tendency at being OCD, I like testing what I read and coming up with my own conclusions.


So far my current setup as my Wraith stands (never ending process of improvement):


1. General:

- Battery forward mod;
- 3oz of stick-on lead under the front steering servo;
- RC4WD inner fenders;
- All electronics relocated to the front;


2. Axles:

- DIY UHMW polyethylene front/rear axle pumpkin skid plates;
- STRC aluminium: knuckles, C-hubs, lower shock mounts and lock-outs;
- Locked Up RC FI spools;
- Brass Beef Tubes;
- Axial universals;


3. Steering:

- Hitec HS-7955TG - Internally waterproofed with MG silicone conformal coating (part# 422B) and externally waterproofed with Plastidip spray;
- DIY servo mount plate to clear the chassis under full suspension compression;
- STRC steering links;
- Oversize Flange Pipe Bushings;


4. Suspension:

- DIY lowering kit similar to the Level 3 one;
- RTR shocks - Cap sealed with black RTV, O-rings replaced with Traxxas X-rings from GTR rebuild kit #5462 and rebuilt as per the Axial blog (Axial Racing - Shock Building Tips )
- 30 or 35 weight oil (can't remember);
- Axial black springs (1.04 lbs) all around;
- Axial rear sway bar set to soft;
- DIY bent 1/4" upper aluminium links;
- DIY bent high clearance 1/4" cold rolled steel lower links;
- Skid height at curb weight is 2-3/8" using the Proline TSL XL tires;


5. Wheels and tires:

I already have a few sets of mounted tires, I was told that my "condition" (tire whoring) is a side effect of racing 1:1 cars where I had 7 sets...

All of them are currently mounted on 2.2 Axial bead-locks which are vented, 2oz stick-on weights in the fronts only and with either custom or the factory foam.

- Axial Ripsaws R35 (5.5");
- Proline TSL XL (5.75");
- RC4WD Mud Slingers 2 XL (5.5");
- Hot Bodies Rover White Dot (5.5");
- Proline Dirt Paw studded for ice;


6. Electronics:

- Tekin FX-R ESC - Internally waterproofed with MG silicone conformal coating (part# 422B) and externally waterproofed with Plastidip spray;
- Traxxas Titan 550 21T motor for the E-Maxx;
- Castle 10A BEC - Internally waterproofed with MG silicone conformal coating (part# 422B) and externally waterproofed with liquid tape;
- 2S 6500mAh batteries;


7. Powertrain:

- Internally beefed-up drive shafts - I treaded the male splined section for 5/16 UNC and blue Loctite a length of treaded rod (imagine a giant set screw) to reinforce it instead of just gluing a piece of piano wire. This has a lot more surface area due to the thread, therefore a lot harder to deform under application of torque than just plain piano wire and is removable (in theory ) since I machined a slot in one end.
- DIY CV boots for the drive shafts universal joints;
- Axial hardened steel gear set;
- Hot Racing aluminium transmission housing;
- 87T/48P spur gear;
- 15T/48P to 13T/48P pinion;


I am currently experimenting with the 4-link suspension geometry, testing different lengths of links and mounting points trying to make my Wraith into a mountain goat minus the clean-up.

So far I can do 55 degrees on a plywood plank covered with recycled rubber subflooring on it (Dura-Son). This has similar grip/slip to the rock we have here in Ottawa when I compared the 2 with an incline test.

Originally Posted by hairumuffin

As it turns out,i have the dmg stiffy kit and the shock mounts are already setup for running lower.. I read more on articulation, and my rig has a lot! Im gonna limit the shocks a few mm.. Im running a integy 35t..pulls great for me,on 3s. Why do guys run such a low turn motor(13t)? lower turn motors have less torque and more top speed? I dont wanna go fast

I run about 50/50 on my stock shocks, with 2-3/8" of skid plate height, I don't feel the need for more.

A lot of guys run the lower links parallel or near to the ground.

A 35T on 3S has plenty of wheel speed and low end torque/control to be a good at both crawling and trailing.


My 550 21T on 2S with 13/87 has a good balance of both, I need to do a slight jog to follow a WOT and I can still make it crawl to the millimetre.

More articulation isn't always better, since your off-loaded axle/tire when over a hole or crevice can just fall in and bind.

There is already a couple of very good thread on this subject on RCCrawler.



Edit - Found them:

wanting alot more articulation out of my wraith.

[hairumuffin]

Originally Posted by valheru

More articulation isn't always better, since your off-loaded axle/tire when over a hole or crevice can just fall in and bind.

There is already a couple of very good thread on this subject on RCCrawler.



Edit - Found them:

wanting alot more articulation out of my wraith.

Thanks for the link.. Why are you using a sway bar? Is yours stricktly a crawler or speed runs too?

[valheru]

Mostly crawling, but I do bash with it as well, without the RSB it tends to roll-over when cornering at moderate speed, and it controls the torque twist.

[351Beno]

If your talking about a 13t with a 5 slot arm its gonna have better low end resolution over a 3 slot. A 5 slot is about half the speed of a 3 slot so a 13t is more like a 27 turn and when geared down will be super smooth.

[hairumuffin]

Originally Posted by 351Beno

If your talking about a 13t with a 5 slot arm its gonna have better low end resolution over a 3 slot. A 5 slot is about half the speed of a 3 slot so a 13t is more like a 27 turn and when geared down will be super smooth.

Oh, see im thinking 13t mod motors for racing.. Now i see the difference for crawlers..when my i tegy takes a dump, i will get a hh.. My integy is still holding up ... I see guys are still using brushed,inwant to go brushless but really have no reason because my setup is good as is.. 35t + axial ae3 on 3s 3300's

[valheru]

Yup, my Traxxas 550 Titan 21T is a brushed motor, the day I go brushless it will be either HH Puller or Tekin Roc412, 3300kV max.

Lots of low speed control in brushed motors, you can run them in the worst of conditions (i.e. fully submerge in whatever crap you want) and my Titan 21T only cost 27 $ Canadian each. Disposable at that price, but last a long time with good performances!

[hairumuffin]

Update; I changed shocks, I had some Kyosho shocks laying around wich are shorter that my losi shocks.. I didn't have the spacers to limit my losi shocks so I used the kyosho's. I have less articulation of course now, it's not a bad thing, I can see the difference in side hulling and pulling steep grades it's way better, the down side is I have less travel,seems to get hung up a lot easier now.. I still need to change my foams, then I think I will really see more improvements. I haven't installed any weight yet, I'm leaning towards brass beef tubes or blue monkey brass wheel weight.. After the weight, I think it will really shine as a scaler..
Sorry no pics, I think my privileges are suspended for posting too large of a pic in the for sale section some time ago per forum rules.. Not a good thread w/o pics

[msrace]

I really don't understand why everyone is so against long travel suspension. It seems to follow the same myths about low antisquat. It takes some work to do it all correctly and you do need to learn how to drive it, but I'm running just about everything everyone says won't work with great success. Stock rear link placement is horrible at best. I run 5" prolines, an open diff, and 26% rear antisquat and it crawls well enough to run 2.2 pro courses and climbs a 65 degree test board. Look through my build thread on here, and just know there isn't anything done unintentionally. I also wanted to crawl with the comp rigs with something that resembles and performs like my own 1:1 rig. There isn't anything in the world, and especially in rc, that can't be modified or improved. Check out my build thread here MS Racing's UnWraithed Wraith

[Orange peel]

I like 2.5" minimum at trans skid but I dont have much for rocks that aren't at least 4x the size of a 1/10th truck. Long travel works great if you aren't using to soft of springs. To soft of springs will make any suspension setup junk.

[Revoasian]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I guess I'll chime in on my setup. I have a dedicated crawler only setup for rocks, no trailing or high speed runs. My Wraith weighs in at 11 lbs, has a DMG Longback SK which is attached to Vanquish AR60 axles, GTransition shocks inverted with 30wt oil and 3 hole pistons. Why inverted? In theory it adds weight down low, also its set up in droop form. There is no up travel and a ton of down travel which also help with low center of gravity.

As for the wheels they are Gearhead with 8 oz weights each up front and 4 oz each out back, tires are PL super swamper xl with CI 6" DD foams, medium up front and firm out back. My gear ratio is 5:8.1 32 pitch, with u/d and o/d gear ratios in the axles. Robinson metal gear transmission as well. This thing climbs rocks like a friggin goat. Does virticle climbs with ease, look at picture on pg. 58 #1160 for photos of that verticle climb. For electronics I run the Novak Goat 3s with the Ballistic 18.5 sensored motor and I love it. Batteries are very small located up front, 2200 mah 2s 7.4 v maybe 3" in length? I get roughly over an hour run time at the local crawling comps with that rig. Not bad for 11lbs right? But if you want a little bit of speed instead of a low speed crawler like my setup, don't run the wheel weights. I will be running the HB Rovers very soon in the near future to see how it handles, unfortunately the rules don't allow for those tires which is why I don't have them now. Hope this helps.

[hairumuffin]

Originally Posted by msrace

I really don't understand why everyone is so against long travel suspension. It seems to follow the same myths about low antisquat. It takes some work to do it all correctly and you do need to learn how to drive it, but I'm running just about everything everyone says won't work with great success. Stock rear link placement is horrible at best. I run 5" prolines, an open diff, and 26% rear antisquat and it crawls well enough to run 2.2 pro courses and climbs a 65 degree test board. Look through my build thread on here, and just know there isn't anything done unintentionally. I also wanted to crawl with the comp rigs with something that resembles and performs like my own 1:1 rig. There isn't anything in the world, and especially in rc, that can't be modified or improved. Check out my build thread here MS Racing's UnWraithed Wraith

Thanks for your input,after I get the foams and ad a bit of weight, I will play with shocks a bit more.. Maybe I will go back to longer shocks to compare.. You don't know what works until you try new things..nice build oh have..

I'm not if on adding weight but I'm sure adding some can't hurt.. I'm also curious about the weight of my rig,I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 7lbs.. I would like to keep her light
Next I will install my ud/old gears., but I need to make sure my tires are the ticket first, I know tires are always key.. I want to stay with pl rubber since my son is on the team ad a nitro racer..

[hairumuffin]

This time i have pictures lol... Since the start i hvae installed the following upgrades
Beeftubes-rear for now because i felt like i could use a little weight in the rear, and since i was installing the new ud gears in the rear also.. After much debate on different threads about od/ud i decided to just ad the ud gears for the rear.. I love the change,it has a much tighter turning radius. I also added the rear dlux truss/upper link mount. Im using the middle hole for now. Now sure it helped my performance because i also added the CI DD foams, medium f/r.. I installed some kyosho buggy rear shocks, a bit shorter than my losi shocks.. Im just waiting on my rcbros front knuckle weights andfront beef tubes and i will be set

Im overall happy so far, from hear i will play with the shocks,angle,length,ride height.. And maybe one more set of tires to compare..

I wish i had did one upgrade at a time so i could tell wich changes made the best improvement.. Still need to weigh it

I think my tires need more breaking in.. I still have the sharp edges on my lugs. I only have one battery on the foams

[hairumuffin]

Rear shock shafts are too short, it needs a little longer

[hairumuffin]

This is a gear lube called dry fluid,title says it all.. Originally used for us helicoptor guys. Its a gear lube, it gives your gears a white dry film,it looks like white out.. We use it because grease flings off the gears and makes a mess. Same applies to cars. Put this on your gears and you will never use grease again, no more greasy mess in your tranny or diff case. Only negative, way over priced!!! https://www.amainhobbies.com/dryflui...arlube/p378093