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Thread: BWD XR-Mantis Prototype Chassis Kit...All New!

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Old 08-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by TheSCorpionKing View Post
Must be because the XR has all tHose funny angled rod ends. Both BWD kits I've owned used revos
woo hoo! i just had a closer look at the pix and it looks like revo rod ends are being used
ive never been a fan of axial rod ends. come to think about it ive never been a fan of any manufacturer's rod ends except for traxxas

Last edited by NeXt559; 08-08-2011 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:12 AM   #82
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The Mantis does use Revo rod ends. Speaking of which, the Mantis and the Dub cab for it are now available for purchase here http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/Bil...Categories.bok

They will begin shipping this Wednesday - 8-10-2011.

Here's a sample video of the Mantis in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMUw8wHOQ0w

BW
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:44 AM   #83
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Wow! That is impressive! I can't wait for mine to get here!
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:44 PM   #84
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Agreed ^ WOW! I love the innovation and great performance while keeping those sexy sleek lines. It's like the best of both worlds. This is one great looking chassis with a lot of wow factor. Really great job!
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:59 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billet works View Post
The Mantis does use Revo rod ends. Speaking of which, the Mantis and the Dub cab for it are now available for purchase here http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/Bil...Categories.bok

They will begin shipping this Wednesday - 8-10-2011.

Here's a sample video of the Mantis in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMUw8wHOQ0w

BW
very nice chassis!! very nice drivin!!

but may i know wat are the advantages of this unique design over the more conventional(as in havin 4 shocks) design? a more weighted front compared to the rear?

thanx
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:33 PM   #86
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I presume it's 2.2pro legal with body panels? Could body panels just be large pieces of clear packing tape? I think they have to be attached representative of automotive use...Corvettes are bonded together plastic.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:40 PM   #87
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just put in my order for the chassis and topper

hopefully i'll be able to begin building this weekend
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:13 PM   #88
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very cool video that thing can crawl!
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:33 PM   #89
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It's beautiful! But still is it usable?

I wanna see it split by the rear link, with a pivot and a mono-shock installed on the rear.

Lower and mid part in cf, top in Acetal/ Delrin.

But beautiful design
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:33 PM   #90
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Ordered it today!

Thanks Don!
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:27 PM   #91
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Thanks guys, I can't wait to see some of your builds! I love this thing so much that it is going to be my comp rig for this upcoming season without question!

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Originally Posted by chiatw73 View Post
very nice chassis!! very nice drivin!!

but may i know wat are the advantages of this unique design over the more conventional(as in havin 4 shocks) design? a more weighted front compared to the rear?

thanx
Thanks. As said earlier in this thread, most good chassis' will have their own unique advantages. You'll also find that some chassis' suit one drivers' style but not another. Regarding this chassis, we have noticed awesome descent control, insane break over capability, and sure footed off-camber transitions and climbs. When we were crawling the other day (taking the video) I even handed the radio off to the other guys with me so they could drive a line (off camber transition into a climbing side-hill) after attempting it with their rig...and they found it easier to take the line with my Mantis, that they had never driven, and were much smoother

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Originally Posted by WAM View Post
I presume it's 2.2pro legal with body panels? Could body panels just be large pieces of clear packing tape? I think they have to be attached representative of automotive use...Corvettes are bonded together plastic.
Yes sir, with panels (I'm making templates this week) it is plenty legal. I'm not sure on using tape, you may risk losing your "panel" on course and getting a repair.

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It's beautiful! But still is it usable?

I wanna see it split by the rear link, with a pivot and a mono-shock installed on the rear.

Lower and mid part in cf, top in Acetal/ Delrin.

But beautiful design
Thanks. It is very usable, and as I stated, it is taking over as my official comp rig for the 2011 season due to it's ability to prove it's performance through all of my testing.

I've thought through a dual or mono shock version of this kit but it would take away from the simplicity of it and the ease of setup...not to mention the fact that this design performs & flat out sticks to the rocks, and is very low maintenance & durable.

BW
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:27 PM   #92
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So are there any plans for a CF one? :P that would be sweet!
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:41 PM   #93
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You'll also find that some chassis' suit one drivers' style but not another.
This is one of those all too common phrases where I understand every word, but haven't a clue what it really means. Could you give some hypothetical examples on rock of how you have to drive this different than a four-spring XR?

As we speak, I'm out in the garage reworking my wiring to be ready for an already ordered package.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:46 PM   #94
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I think some of you aren't realizing there's some torsion action happening there. Carbon Fiber would eliminate that.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:53 PM   #95
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Quote:
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This is one of those all too common phrases where I understand every word, but haven't a clue what it really means. Could you give some hypothetical examples on rock of how you have to drive this different than a four-spring XR?
There's guys that like a lot of flex and keeping all four tires on a surface, then there's guys that like a little flex and are comfortable getting the truck on three wheels in a balance. You can see it three wheelin' in Don's video.

Quick story to expand further on that: I ran one of Don's Axial torsional chassis called the SSS, before the SSS-R. I had it set up super light (lighter than Don's! ) and it didn't flex much at all, but I knew the limits and how to drive it. Occasionally I would let a few others try (operative word) to drive it and after a short while they'd all say the same thing, "How in the hell do you drive this thing!?" They didn't know the limits, and it wasn't to their style of driving. They wanted big amounts of flex, and I didn't. That is my style.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:55 PM   #96
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I think some of you aren't realizing there's some torsion action happening there. Carbon Fiber would eliminate that.
Oh come on. What's wrong with a half sprung, half stiffy?
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:07 PM   #97
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Oh come on. What's wrong with a half sprung, half stiffy?
How'd that Berg V2 work out? And notice it has very long front shocks.

Years ago I locked out the rear suspension on my TXT. Granted it managed to climb steps it couldn't ever before, it was (kinda) crap everywhere else. There was a train of thought that with the rear locked out that it would transfer all the weight to the front, hence being able to climb the steps it never could before. Which is great and all, but who builds crawlers to only climb steps? With the rear end moving around at least a little bit, you've taken the one trick pony and allowed it to do better at other moves.

I'm guessing rear foam tuning will be a little more important than usual.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:30 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAM View Post
This is one of those all too common phrases where I understand every word, but haven't a clue what it really means. Could you give some hypothetical examples on rock of how you have to drive this different than a four-spring XR?

As we speak, I'm out in the garage reworking my wiring to be ready for an already ordered package.
It's not a matter of driving it any different than a 4 shock XR. It's a matter of some setups/chassis' don't "feel" or react the way some drivers like, which can be due to their preferred approach angles, throttle/wheel speed tendancies, preference for big break over vs sidehill capability (or vise versa), how nimble it is, or even roll over capablities - for those who end up spending a lot of time upside down...regardless of their chassis choice

Here's one driving difference noticed during our video time...the off camber transition to side hill climb starting at 2:17 in the video. Note that the rear axle stays planted through the entire sidehill portion, from entry to exit. The Mantis took this line easily first try, by all three drivers (2 of whom had never driven this rig at all). The other two rigs there were both able to pull the same line after a few tries, but the inside rear was floating on both of them...more on one than the other.

Another difference would be how you approach a high break over. If you don't have the belly clearance for it, you may take a slightly angled approach to make sure you can get over it. This can become a problem if you have a technical section immediately after the break...where a high break over chassis will let you choose what angle you want to approach from...as it will clear regardless.

Something else we noticed was on descending a steep incline following a break over. The Mantis stayed planted and could descend at normal speed, slow, or dragging the rear axle. The 4 linked rig that tried this needed throttle immediately after the break in order to not flip on its lid upon descent. Again, if you don't have as much tendancy to flip while descending, you can focus more on what's next on course as opposed to fighting to keep your rig rubber side down.

EeePee's flexy/no flexy comment is valid but being that flex is tunable on this chassis, it's not much of an issue...unless you plan to run it at sub 4lbs...then she'll be a bit stiff. The major 3 wheeling point on the vid starts at 3:53, and that is due to my running lighter delrin wheels and I had one of the braces installed on the tail section for descreased flex (whereas the part leading up to 3:53 I had both tail braces out for max flex...given my still light weight wheels at 3 ounces each with rings and hardware). From the portion of the vid prior to 3:53, to 3:53 forward, you can notice a substantial difference in flex on every approach and that decreased flex from the back half of the video does take some getting used to, if you are used to flexy setups. I run rigs both ways so it's a non-issue to me.


CF doesn't react the way delrin does, and machining out enough to have at least the needed flex will leave it too brittle
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:38 PM   #99
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I agree, for some time now I have run Carbon fiber and though it does have its uses in RC. Its meant as a stiffining product mainly for higher speed vehicles. The flex is just not there.

Honestly, if this Performs as well as the SSS did. I will be very happy to run this rig as my re entry into comp crawling again. this was all the motivation I needed to getting back into it and buying an XR.

I am very much looking to get this chassis and put my .12 cents into it.

Don, what would you say is a good running weight? did you try different weights and metal wheels when testing it to see what the differances were?
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:44 PM   #100
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I'm sitting here with a cf battery tray for a T-Rex 450se v2. AND must say this cf piece has tons of flex. (only 1mm / 3/64" thick) tho.

Tho i agree on the use for it on this chassis w/o the modification i mentioned above w a sliced chassis and a mono shock, - can be a bad idea. (lol forgot this part, I must be tired).

Last edited by GEN; 08-08-2011 at 05:58 PM. Reason: blææ
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