Do we really need to Bail out GM?????

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by microgoat

Anyone notice how fuel prices dropped after the election?

Fuel prices began to fall before the election....right around the time that the bank bailouts were announced and the stock market began to decline. It was not surprising that the price of oil also began to fall...

[Mr.Slave]

imagine what would happen if, instead of giving all that cash to the dinosaurs, the government gives a fraction of that cash to some electric car companies.

i mean surely you guys must know the awesome power that is electric motors..

[XSRCdesign]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

imagine what would happen if, instead of giving all that cash to the dinosaurs, the government gives a fraction of that cash to some electric car companies.

i mean surely you guys must know the awesome power that is electric motors..

you woudl have a bunch of electric powered cars that no one would buy...

[microgoat]

So where does the electricity come from? Our already-overburdened power grid?

Imagine 20 million people plugging in their cars when they get home at 5:30. Electrics won't work without more power plants and better batteries.

VW has a prototype now that gets over 100 mpg. A small 4-passenger car powered by a 1.0 liter turbodiesel. That's the future IMO.

[dezfan]

Cellulose Methanol, Bio Diesel, electric and probably combinations of two of the three.

[autumnsummers1]

Originally Posted by gregrocks90046

i say the oil companies should bail them out. they have both been in cahoots for a long time.

Yeah, they should and the unions have also KILLED the auto ind
Chapter 11 is the only way to get out of all of those union contracts
and then they can clean house. Mark my word that if they are bailed out it wont be 2 years before they are back at the same failed plans that got them in to this at the start. Whens the last time the goverment did anything rite? If you want something to fail put the goverment in control.

Listen to old Lou Dobbs Heel talk the truth

[sloppy]

I dont know why in the hell the automakers want the goverments help in the first place... why on earth would you want people that cant balance there own check book to tell you how to run things... so now it will take months to build a car because the goverment will be involved in it.. there will be a million new policys and stupid goverment ideas.

bankruptcy sounds like a great idea to me tell the UAW to screw off, you wouldnt lose the work force I would almost gaurentee you tell them guys here is your new wage like it or leave it 80% of them would take it...

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by sloppy

so now it will take months to build a car because the goverment will be involved in it..

Ummm.....they are already involved....

[JasonInAugusta]

[Rockpiledriver]

Don't you drive a fullsize chevy and a big overgrown Chrysler?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by microgoat

VW has a prototype now that gets over 100 mpg. A small 4-passenger car powered by a 1.0 liter turbodiesel. That's the future IMO.

and its more of a death trap then the Pontiac Fiero was a fire trap



Ford has a Clean Diesel that gets 65mpg ..... they wont bring it state side because Americans dont like the word 'Diesel'


Anyone remember the EV1 from GM? They sank the project because it was cheaper to sue CA then research and develop a capable electric car.

[microgoat]

Originally Posted by Robbob

and its more of a death trap then the Pontiac Fiero was a fire trap



Ford has a Clean Diesel that gets 65mpg ..... they wont bring it state side because Americans dont like the word 'Diesel'


Anyone remember the EV1 from GM? They sank the project because it was cheaper to sue CA then research and develop a capable electric car.

Death trap? Please Today there are so many regulations you can't build a truly unsafe car. As for fire traps, remember the Pinto? That was back when seat belts were for pansies and drunk driving was good clean fun.

Americans DON'T like diesels, because of the shit that GM put out in the 80's. You may think that's too long ago to matter, but people still tell Yugo jokes, and it's been nearly 20 years since they disappeared.

The GM diesels, for those too young to know, were converted gasoline engines. If you made it out of the 3/36 warranty with your original engine you were doing pretty good. Mercedes diesels from the same era will go a million miles without having the head off. VW diesels got 55 mpg. BUT, they were all stinky, noisy and slow, and hard to start in the winter.

Notice that Ford found a big pile of cash once the Car Czar position and government oversight was attached to the bailout money? If they don't take the money, they can escape the oversight and can build what they want (and what will sell (within the limitations of selling Fords in the first place)).

And the EV1 was a turd. Its range was no better than the electric cars of the 1910's, only had two seats and the windows didn't roll down. Only a goober like Ed Begley Jr could love a car like that.

[gregrocks90046]

Originally Posted by microgoat

And the EV1 was a turd. Its range was no better than the electric cars of the 1910's, only had two seats and the windows didn't roll down. Only a goober like Ed Begley Jr could love a car like that.

i thought the EV1 looked hideous. like the prius, why can't it look like a normal car and not like something from the jetsons?

but wasn't it's range 150 miles per charge? that would be more than ample for most people as far as their daily commute goes. i was seeing more and more of them around los angeles before they got yanked by GM.

[binaryterror]

American's still want 6000lb trucks they do not need or use, then want them to get 50mpg. Neither will happen, likely not in our lives.

Think about other countries, they don't buy large vehicles at all unless they are business use. Their roads are smaller, fuel is far more expensive, nor do their countries have the sheer spending capitol to compete with us.

Ford is doing the best, they are the only of the Big 3 making good on their Global Car design.

I am so on the fence with this, especially being from the state that could be killed over this. I want the jobs...so bailout loans might be good. But I want them to learn and change...something free loans and bailouts might not teach them like Bankruptcy filings would.

[DeaDShorT]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Yep, Toyota does not employ people associated with Unions...

http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/2008vehicles.pdf

The Tacoma and Corolla US/UAW models...I think I saw some Mitsubishi and Mazdas in there as well. And a Suzuki xl7

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by DeaDShorT

http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/2008vehicles.pdf

The Tacoma and Corolla US/UAW models...I think I saw some Mitsubishi and Mazdas in there as well. And a Suzuki xl7

That's odd. I could have sworn that the plant in San Antonio said that Toyota didn't employ UAW workers. Maybe it was just that plant (which builds only Tundras)...

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by DeaDShorT

http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/2008vehicles.pdf

Is this a list of vehicles to avoid knowing they were built by UAW labor...

[DeaDShorT]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Is this a list of vehicles to avoid knowing they were built by UAW labor...

I don't think the union should be the scapegoat, they've been willing to make concessions and have made concessions in the past. I won't say that they are blameless, either. The corporate executives and their failed business plans should be the main concerns with these bailout/loans...whatever you want to call it.

Corporate America and their special intrests and lobbyists have overrun our local and federal governments for the last 8 years. I really think that this is the GOP's last gasp at an attempt to blame organized labor, the middle class, and put the Democratic party behind the 8 ball as they prepare to take office.

[JUSTGOINGSLOW]

Originally Posted by DeaDShorT

I don't think the union should be the scapegoat, they've been willing to make concessions and have made concessions in the past. I won't say that they are blameless, either. The corporate executives and their failed business plans should be the main concerns with these bailout/loans...whatever you want to call it.

Corporate America and their special intrests and lobbyists have overrun our local and federal governments for the last 8 years. I really think that this is the GOP's last gasp at an attempt to blame organized labor, the middle class, and put the Democratic party behind the 8 ball as they prepare to take office.

I couldn't of said it better my self!!!!