RCCrawler Forums

Harvo · 12-10-2010, 09:05 PM

So I'm sure some of you guys remember just a few years ago when there were only about 4 Berg 2.2's comping and most people were still running TLT's and AX-10's.

There were build threads just like now, but when guys posted pictures in their threads... there would be blurry spots or blacked out areas hiding little tweaks or new setup ideas that might give a competitive advantage. I remember reading some Kamikaze threads where Jeff would camoflauge pictures to hide stuff that had everyone wondering what he was up to. Foam tricks were even kept hush hush.

Now, everyone spills all the beans. And everyone builds the same truck. I'll bet 9 out of 10 BJ's or T1E's or Wedges or (name a chassis) are set up just alike. So if the courses at a big comp have really good rock that doesn't change... all a guy has to do is watch a truck like his run, then he knows exactly what to do. Then if he is a half decent driver... he can put together a good run.

Look at Nats this year. The rock was great and almost unchanging. How many guys had almost the same score up toward the top 20 or so?

I know we are a friendly and information sharing group of hobbyist, but should secrets still have their place in crawling?

Just Chit Chat food for thought.

frdtrkguy · 12-10-2010, 09:41 PM

I wonder what would change if drivers were kept from seeing the courses while other rigs ran, only a pre comp view to stratigize....

romulus22 · 12-10-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frdtrkguy

I wonder what would change if drivers were kept from seeing the courses while other rigs ran, only a pre comp view to stratigize....

I was just thinking about that recently. I bet that would have a bigger impact on the scores than people running different setups.

cavie98 · 12-10-2010, 10:16 PM

Well, I know I'm pretty new to the comp side of crawling but, I can agree with all you guys.

I think Harvo has a point that some secrets should be kept that way, there could be an advantage that someone may have come up with on their own.
I also think you guys have a good point about watching others run. That, imo, has alot to do with how some drivers place higher in the ranks.

I know I've mentioned if a few times at our local comps that we should try a different format of choosing when someone gets to run a course. I know that it's not exactly what Harvo was trying to get at but, I know that if someone is really a good driver, it shouldn't matter when they drive the course.

I've seen alot of guys wait and wait to run just so they can see as many people run before they do so they can see all the lines. IMHO, I don't think they are as good as the score shows. Place them running in the first few and I think the scores would show whether they are really a good driver or not.

I know that there are a few drivers that are that good, secrets or not. As far as the secret ? goes, I know I've received alot of help from several guys and what they told me was kinda secret stuff and I don't know if it helped or not. Mainly because I suck as a driver.

Sorry for the rant Harvo, but this may open a different can of worms.

666 · 12-10-2010, 10:19 PM

Hahaha!!

This will be good!

cavie98 · 12-10-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666

Hahaha!!

This will be good!

I agree.

joesbruiser · 12-10-2010, 11:09 PM

I know personally I have never been one to keep secrets with the RC crawlers,now with my 1.1 drag cars thats another story

.
The way I have always looked at it has been share all i know on setup, lines etc.......... and if at the end of the day I loose than someone straight up out drove my ass and good for them.
I know what Harvo is referring 2 for sure.I remember when I first got into 2.2 I would watch trucks run and know the driver was not what allowed the rig to pull the lines they did but it was 90% setup and most would not share that info.At the time i thought it sucked but now I am glad they did keep it a secret.It made me take the time to tune and try new stuff on my own until i knew what worked and what did not.

ThinkTank · 12-10-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvo

I know we are a friendly and information sharing group of hobbyist, but should secrets still have their place in crawling?

Just Chit Chat food for thought.

An observation from an outsider:

Until innovation and creativity can attempt a comeback, nothing really qualifies as 'secret.'

Skwerly · 12-10-2010, 11:58 PM

very interesting observation and i have to agree, some things could remain secret. however, in the age of information and the internet and all that, it probably isn't going to happen. i agree with the previous poster that it's easier to keep a little hush hush on real cars, though.

also, simple pride gets in the way maybe. if someone spends weeks tweaking their shocks to get the right spring rate, fluid weight and level, etc etc and finally hits gold, it's hard to keep the ole trap shut.

Duuuuuuuude · 12-11-2010, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThinkTank

An observation from an outsider:

Until innovation and creativity can attempt a comeback, nothing really qualifies as 'secret.'

Today's innovations are yesterdays secrets.

There are plenty of designs on the down-low, though eventually they will come into public view and are available for purchase. Long live capitalism.

team3six · 12-11-2010, 12:06 AM

I have no idea what your talking about.

Duuuuuuuude · 12-11-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by team3six

I have no idea what your talking about.

Are those Rovers? I knew it!

Super · 12-11-2010, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Are those Rovers? I knew it!

Yeah but are they whites or blues?

Duuuuuuuude · 12-11-2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super

Yeah but are they whites or blues?

Whites.

TattooKenny · 12-11-2010, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romulus22

I was just thinking about that recently. I bet that would have a bigger impact on the scores than people running different setups.

I can tell you for a fact that it makes a huge difference! Last year I judged a lot of the big comps. Judging all day long on one course keeps us from seeing anyone else run the other courses than the one we are on. When we finally get to run for the day we have no idea what did or did not work or what lines to take. It's very hard! And you would think that by watching one course all day we would have it figured out......nope! Most of the time you will over think it trying to remember what different people did to make it work and suck on that course to!

If you just watch a handful of people run you are better off IMO.

Slowkrawl · 12-11-2010, 02:01 AM

Bear in mind I am not in the comp scene whatsoever but I think if you kept the course hidden from everyone except the driver and judges of course that people simply wouldn't show up. I'm sure part of the attraction for you compers is watching other guys run. I know when we are out trail running half the fun is watching the other guys try to make a line.

ROCKEDUP RICKY · 12-11-2010, 05:17 AM

I go to watch the others drive, I can stay home and watch myself.
The reason the Nationals scores were so close was lots of good drivers and how the courses were made.

Crawlapalooza was a month later on the same rock and we didn't have scores that close.

And the judges ran 2 different courses that day.

rottenbelly · 12-11-2010, 06:03 AM

It doesnt really matter. You can have the best truck out there with all the top secret goodies and still suck ass at driving.

I watch other drivers make stuff look soooooo easy. Then when i try it i cant even figure out how to go forwards.

Twiztid Metal · 12-11-2010, 06:14 AM

LOOK at Nascar. when running restrictors. EVERY car is the exact same. you can have 10 of the same crawlers, set up the EXACT same way. and yet there will be 10 different positions too fill,

honestly its a drivers match, whos got the best driving skills? who pulls off the better line....

chops1sc · 12-11-2010, 07:36 AM

The secret keeping is totally up to the person doing the build. I do think there are a limited number of things that can be kept under wraps (shock fluid, spring rates, foams, motors, weight bias). Things like tires link geometry and shock mounting (and actual shocks) you can only hide until you post pics or show up at the comp.

As far as whether the other drivers can see the courses before driving it should be a luck of the draw type thing. But of course all comps are gonna be different. I think the closer the scores are the more interesting it becomes!

12-10-2010, 09:05 PM	#1
Harvo I wanna be Dave Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Dark Edges of your Mind Posts: 6,386	Crawling Secrets So I'm sure some of you guys remember just a few years ago when there were only about 4 Berg 2.2's comping and most people were still running TLT's and AX-10's. There were build threads just like now, but when guys posted pictures in their threads... there would be blurry spots or blacked out areas hiding little tweaks or new setup ideas that might give a competitive advantage. I remember reading some Kamikaze threads where Jeff would camoflauge pictures to hide stuff that had everyone wondering what he was up to. Foam tricks were even kept hush hush. Now, everyone spills all the beans. And everyone builds the same truck. I'll bet 9 out of 10 BJ's or T1E's or Wedges or (name a chassis) are set up just alike. So if the courses at a big comp have really good rock that doesn't change... all a guy has to do is watch a truck like his run, then he knows exactly what to do. Then if he is a half decent driver... he can put together a good run. Look at Nats this year. The rock was great and almost unchanging. How many guys had almost the same score up toward the top 20 or so? I know we are a friendly and information sharing group of hobbyist, but should secrets still have their place in crawling? Just Chit Chat food for thought.

12-10-2010, 10:16 PM	#4
cavie98 Rock Crawler Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Over at yo mama's house Posts: 527	Well, I know I'm pretty new to the comp side of crawling but, I can agree with all you guys. I think Harvo has a point that some secrets should be kept that way, there could be an advantage that someone may have come up with on their own. I also think you guys have a good point about watching others run. That, imo, has alot to do with how some drivers place higher in the ranks. I know I've mentioned if a few times at our local comps that we should try a different format of choosing when someone gets to run a course. I know that it's not exactly what Harvo was trying to get at but, I know that if someone is really a good driver, it shouldn't matter when they drive the course. I've seen alot of guys wait and wait to run just so they can see as many people run before they do so they can see all the lines. IMHO, I don't think they are as good as the score shows. Place them running in the first few and I think the scores would show whether they are really a good driver or not. I know that there are a few drivers that are that good, secrets or not. As far as the secret ? goes, I know I've received alot of help from several guys and what they told me was kinda secret stuff and I don't know if it helped or not. Mainly because I suck as a driver. Sorry for the rant Harvo, but this may open a different can of worms. Last edited by cavie98; 12-10-2010 at 10:21 PM.

12-10-2010, 11:09 PM	#7
joesbruiser I wanna be Dave Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: spring hill TN Posts: 2,959	I know personally I have never been one to keep secrets with the RC crawlers,now with my 1.1 drag cars thats another story. The way I have always looked at it has been share all i know on setup, lines etc.......... and if at the end of the day I loose than someone straight up out drove my ass and good for them. I know what Harvo is referring 2 for sure.I remember when I first got into 2.2 I would watch trucks run and know the driver was not what allowed the rig to pull the lines they did but it was 90% setup and most would not share that info.At the time i thought it sucked but now I am glad they did keep it a secret.It made me take the time to tune and try new stuff on my own until i knew what worked and what did not.

12-10-2010, 09:41 PM	#2
frdtrkguy I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: BFE, NV Posts: 2,324	I wonder what would change if drivers were kept from seeing the courses while other rigs ran, only a pre comp view to stratigize....

12-10-2010, 10:19 PM	#5
666 MODERHATER™ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 10,939	Hahaha!! This will be good!

12-10-2010, 11:58 PM	#9
Skwerly Newbie Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 29	very interesting observation and i have to agree, some things could remain secret. however, in the age of information and the internet and all that, it probably isn't going to happen. i agree with the previous poster that it's easier to keep a little hush hush on real cars, though. also, simple pride gets in the way maybe. if someone spends weeks tweaking their shocks to get the right spring rate, fluid weight and level, etc etc and finally hits gold, it's hard to keep the ole trap shut.

12-11-2010, 12:06 AM	#11
team3six www.team3sixrc.com Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scalerville Posts: 4,506	I have no idea what your talking about.

12-11-2010, 02:01 AM	#16
Slowkrawl Quarry Creeper Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Alberta canada Posts: 386	Bear in mind I am not in the comp scene whatsoever but I think if you kept the course hidden from everyone except the driver and judges of course that people simply wouldn't show up. I'm sure part of the attraction for you compers is watching other guys run. I know when we are out trail running half the fun is watching the other guys try to make a line.

12-11-2010, 05:17 AM	#17
ROCKEDUP RICKY Old guy Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Northwest Arkie-saw and we got ROCKS! Posts: 7,548	I go to watch the others drive, I can stay home and watch myself. The reason the Nationals scores were so close was lots of good drivers and how the courses were made. Crawlapalooza was a month later on the same rock and we didn't have scores that close. And the judges ran 2 different courses that day.

12-11-2010, 06:03 AM	#18
rottenbelly Just jump it! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cedar City, Utah Posts: 1,947	It doesnt really matter. You can have the best truck out there with all the top secret goodies and still suck ass at driving. I watch other drivers make stuff look soooooo easy. Then when i try it i cant even figure out how to go forwards.

12-11-2010, 06:14 AM	#19
Twiztid Metal Rock Crawler Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: I'm a michigan boy can you feel that! Posts: 577	LOOK at Nascar. when running restrictors. EVERY car is the exact same. you can have 10 of the same crawlers, set up the EXACT same way. and yet there will be 10 different positions too fill, honestly its a drivers match, whos got the best driving skills? who pulls off the better line....

12-11-2010, 07:36 AM	#20
chops1sc Rock Crawler Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 619	The secret keeping is totally up to the person doing the build. I do think there are a limited number of things that can be kept under wraps (shock fluid, spring rates, foams, motors, weight bias). Things like tires link geometry and shock mounting (and actual shocks) you can only hide until you post pics or show up at the comp. As far as whether the other drivers can see the courses before driving it should be a luck of the draw type thing. But of course all comps are gonna be different. I think the closer the scores are the more interesting it becomes!

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