U.S. Tax System explained in Beer

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Ding!



If people didn't feel like contributing, then they wouldn't get help when they needed it.

As far as stimulation goes, in nearly any career you'll find people that love what they do. Keep looking and you'll find people doing things they don't love and wish they were off doing something else.

No forced labor, though there probably would have to be some sort of carrer counceling for youth to get them started towards where they need or want to go. How much or how long you would would be a balance between what you are willing/able to do and how large the work force is. A large and efficient workforce would result in quite a bit of free time.

And yes, it would be a massive mindset change.



Its not communism because its not government regulated. The basic principal is that if you cannot sustain a contributing society, you will not survive.

You would contribute by doing someting that perpetuates or benifits the society you live in.

Instead of being brought up to chase money to make a living, you would be raised to do your part and benifit from doing so.

Contributing is dependant on what you are able to do. If you're goofing off more than you're working, then you'll most likely get in trouble by those around you.

Then how would you defend you shores from invasion?
what army?
how would it be funded?

[Mr.Slave]

i want every wednesday to be a stat holiday.
and a paid lunch

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by rock hard

Then how would you defend you shores from invasion?
what army?
how would it be funded?

What is it with you and the army? They wouldn't have any wealth to steal, or be a real threat to anyone.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

Then how would you defend you shores from invasion?
what army?
how would it be funded?

How many people do you know that would take up arms to defend our country? It would be nice if it were not needed, but there's always one asshole causing a ruckus...but we're thinking globally here, not locally.

And again with the money and funding. What part of a moneyless society don't you get...

Originally Posted by ThinkTank

What is it with you and the army? They wouldn't have any wealth to steal, or be a real threat to anyone.

No, but like I said, there's always somebody who wants control or disrupt the system.

Theft would be extremely low, though there would still be crime and people doing bad things that you would have to contend with.

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

No, but like I said, there's always somebody who wants control or disrupt the system.

Theft would be extremely low, though there would still be crime and people doing bad things that you would have to contend with.

I'm sorry, what I pictured is obviously different than what you had in mind. Forgive me.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by ThinkTank

I'm sorry, what I pictured is obviously different than what you had in mind. Forgive me.

We might have been on the same page, though I may have been factoring in human nature where you had not.

Even though things would be available for anyone who might need or want them, there will be someone who has it in their mind to try to control the situation by stealing a large portion of an item that could be important to a society....say medication or something similar. Ideally that item could be easily replaced, though time may be a factor. Depending on how severe the issue is, some sort of law enforcement may be called upon to deal with it.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

How many people do you know that would take up arms to defend our country? It would be nice if it were not needed, but there's always one asshole causing a ruckus...but we're thinking globally here, not locally.

Global society=global goverment

And again with the money and funding. What part of a moneyless society don't you get...:ror:

what you would have to have is a moneyless world
everything has a value,what the value is varies.
It could be based on money,or sweat,the harder you have to work for something the more its worth to you.


It would have to be a global society,and I'm dang sure not on board with that.
There will always be those that want something different,and if its a world goverment then there is no place to go for change.

In your picture purfect world people would have less freedom IMO
You would never be able to start at the bottom working hard and achieve a level where you no longer havve to work so hard.

You learn to make your money work for you.If it is invested wisely then it is working as you are working.And with some luck you may find you can spend time just enjoying life rather than spending all your time working.


No, but like I said, there's always somebody who wants control or disrupt the system.

Theft would be extremely low, though there would still be crime and people doing bad things that you would have to contend with.

I think theft would be same as now or worse,there are simply people who prefer not work for whatever reason
maybe they are lazy,maybe they are injured,maybe they want more than
what the moneyless society offers them.
They would be there steeling same as they are today.
Only I would have no savings building for the day I can relax and not work
I would only have goods,if they are stolen what do I have?

I think your worls is simpler for this who do not have the tenasity to see thier
goals to fruitation.

But for thise who want a easiler life,with less labor and more fun,to what end do we work to??

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

I think theft would be same as now or worse,there are simply people who prefer not work for whatever reason
maybe they are lazy,maybe they are injured,maybe they want more than
what the moneyless society offers them.
They would be there steeling same as they are today.
Only I would have no savings building for the day I can relax and not work
I would only have goods,if they are stolen what do I have?

I think your worls is simpler for this who do not have the tenasity to see thier
goals to fruitation.

But for thise who want a easiler life,with less labor and more fun,to what end do we work to??

There would be no reason to steal. Do you walk around your house putting stuff in your pockets and hiding it from your family?

As far as those that won't pull their weight...that should be a fairly easy value to establish. If not, then they can be dealt with in some form or another. I would imagine public humiliation would be a pretty good motivating factor.

Not being able to "work" is different. Most people can do something, even if it seems menial in today's society. Every job is important, otherwise it wouldn't be there for people to do.

Retirement in this setting would be different than it is in ours. My grandfather "retired" 3 times before he gave it up for good. He just wasn't happy being at home all day long. He had nothing to do.

Retirement to us is when we can theoretically quit busting our asses and enjoy what little life we have left with what money we have managed to set aside. Though most people will find something else to fill their time with either another job or diving into a hobby or interest that they've had.

As far as not having the drive to accomplish goals, I've got that, but I'm constantly re-evaluating those goals to see if its something I really want to work for. Because as you said, to what end do we work to? To have the most crap when I die? The biggest house? The most property?

I have no interest in spending my life busting ass to buy shit I don't need and hope that I live long enough to enjoy it.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

There would be no reason to steal. Do you walk around your house putting stuff in your pockets and hiding it from your family?

As far as those that won't pull their weight...that should be a fairly easy value to establish. If not, then they can be dealt with in some form or another. I would imagine public humiliation would be a pretty good motivating factor.

Not being able to "work" is different. Most people can do something, even if it seems menial in today's society. Every job is important, otherwise it wouldn't be there for people to do.

Retirement in this setting would be different than it is in ours. My grandfather "retired" 3 times before he gave it up for good. He just wasn't happy being at home all day long. He had nothing to do.

Retirement to us is when we can theoretically quit busting our asses and enjoy what little life we have left with what money we have managed to set aside. Though most people will find something else to fill their time with either another job or diving into a hobby or interest that they've had.

As far as not having the drive to accomplish goals, I've got that, but I'm constantly re-evaluating those goals to see if its something I really want to work for. Because as you said, to what end do we work to? To have the most crap when I die? The biggest house? The most property?

I have no interest in spending my life busting ass to buy shit I don't need and hope that I live long enough to enjoy it.

I didnt say retirement like I'm to old to work

I mean I dont want to work so hard,in your pistured worl I see the lwer level jobs being the hardest labor intensive.

How woud you get out of that,who would decide what job you did.
I plan to not work all my life,not work till I'm unable to work.
By then I cant really enjoy life antloger.
I want to do things and work isnt one of them.
I work hard now so I can get to a point where I dont have to.
Or leave as much a head start as possible for my son.

In your world what would you leave behind??
what exactly are you working for,just existance,just to maintain??

No way to acccumulate wealth or goods for your heirs?

Nope,you can have your world I like the system we have now,minus the
mentallity that the federal goverment should riegn over stat goverment.

The stats should rulle thier own roost without fed goverment intervention.
If you dont like thier laws,move to another state.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

I mean I dont want to work so hard,in your pistured worl I see the lwer level jobs being the hardest labor intensive.

How woud you get out of that,who would decide what job you did.
I plan to not work all my life,not work till I'm unable to work.
By then I cant really enjoy life antloger.
I want to do things and work isnt one of them.
I work hard now so I can get to a point where I dont have to.
Or leave as much a head start as possible for my son.

Labor intensive jobs only still exist because we need them to. We need jobs that people can make a living at if they did not have the ability or desire for higher education. There are plenty of manual labor jobs that could be eliminated by specifically designed machinery. There are plenty of manufacturing jobs that could be fully automated, requiring only a handful of actual employees to maintain the facility. But people need jobs to make money, so that automation is kept to a minimum.

Like it or not, you could be unable to work come tomorrow. You don't know what the future holds. Accidents happen. Would you rather enjoy life as it goes along or wait until the end and hope you're there to see it? Its a gamble...

Originally Posted by rock hard

In your world what would you leave behind??
what exactly are you working for,just existance,just to maintain??

No way to acccumulate wealth or goods for your heirs?

There would be no need to accumulate monetary wealth. You could pass along something that had sentimental or practical value.

Ideally, everyone would be working towards bettering their immediate societies, which in turn would better the world. Think of everything that could be accomplished to make this world better if money was not a factor.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Labor intensive jobs only still exist because we need them to. We need jobs that people can make a living at if they did not have the ability or desire for higher education. There are plenty of manual labor jobs that could be eliminated by specifically designed machinery. There are plenty of manufacturing jobs that could be fully automated, requiring only a handful of actual employees to maintain the facility. But people need jobs to make money, so that automation is kept to a minimum.

Like it or not, you could be unable to work come tomorrow. You don't know what the future holds. Accidents happen. Would you rather enjoy life as it goes along or wait until the end and hope you're there to see it? Its a gamble...



There would be no need to accumulate monetary wealth. You could pass along something that had sentimental or practical value.



Ideally, everyone would be working towards bettering their immediate societies, which in turn would better the world. Think of everything that could be accomplished to make this world better if money was not a factor.

What is betetr for you isnt better for all

You want to use equipment to limit labor intensive jobs???
Wow,so what about the people mining the laterials used to creat the machines?

or the peple picking friut,diging ditches,pouring concret?

How would you get from that job to pushing a pencil??

The world you discribe looks dark and gloomy to me

No real Goals to achieve,no controle whatseoever over the current situation
your futur situation,or the situation you leave your family.

I think that instead of having people doing real well,people doing real bad
everyone would be tha same for the most part
so missery spread around equaly

You keep it all for yourself

sounds like a socialist utopia to me.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

What is betetr for you isnt better for all

You want to use equipment to limit labor intensive jobs???
Wow,so what about the people mining the laterials used to creat the machines?

or the peple picking friut,diging ditches,pouring concret?

How would you get from that job to pushing a pencil??

The world you discribe looks dark and gloomy to me

No real Goals to achieve,no controle whatseoever over the current situation
your futur situation,or the situation you leave your family.

I think that instead of having people doing real well,people doing real bad
everyone would be tha same for the most part
so missery spread around equaly

You keep it all for yourself

sounds like a socialist utopia to me.

Ideally, yes, you could eliminate quite a few jobs by using automation. But like I said, right now people need jobs to make money so that automation isn't there. If you didn't need money, the more automation would be integrated, the less people have to work, the more time they can spend doing things they enjoy.

This is not something that could happen in a short amount of time, so going directly from ditch digging to particle physics will not be a needed transition. A good education that isn't bogged down in beurocracy and politics would ensure that nearly everyone would get what they need to be productive in some way.

Goals will change. Instead of working soley to accumulate wealth and materials, people would work to maintain (at the least) and propel civilization (at the most) to a higher level.

What you would leave your family would hopefully be a better, smarter, safer, civilized, and technologically advanced world than you were born into.

Things would only be as good or bad as the people allowed them to be. To put it into small scale, look at a family household. If you want it to run smoothly and successfully, you have to make sure that everyone knows that if they don't do their part, it will be a rough and unhappy environment. Even if you don't dole out physical punishment, there will be suffering, shame, and loss to some degree for the offending member.

In a way it is a utopia, though most utopian theories require sameness and totall equality to work. In all likelyness that would never work because people are still individuals. Even the best utopian scenario is a bit oppressive in order to keep the peace.

While my idea isn't perfect or even fully thought out, its still leaves room for individual freedom. Still, it would require more than just a few changes in state of mind.