Scale Nats cancelled??

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by crash

So judging by the first video I am going to assume its ok to jab, belittle and attack others?

I don't know Ben nor any affiliation with anything scaler related I don't think we need this kind of crap here..

Just sayin...

Have you seen the chit chat classics section?

That is really all it is. Hell most of chit chat is making fun of someone, what is the difference?

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by slobin3d

Or everyone blew a bunch of stupid stuff way out of proportion.

As I see it. Baller's Still pissed that he got his winches late (although he did get them and a partial refund)

Some guys are mad that Ben forgot to get lunch 1 day? I Missed that! Never heard about it.


And people are mad that it took so long to get their FREE TTC shirts(that weren't originally part of the TTC package) and In all reality FreqE said in the MSD section was his issue and was taking care of it. (not to throw Neil under the bus. Sorry.


What else have I missed. I ask Honestly, Because I missed 2/3 of the event last year

Well, let's see......

1. The people running it being too pre-occupied with finishing the "cheap truck" to actually run the event.

2. Someone getting stuck judging all day without a break for lunch (after arriving at sun up to set up all the courses) because the people running it weren't prepared with judges for all the courses (all the while Ben drove in spec class).

3. Me having to rip a t-shirt up out of my truck and use it for toilet paperbecause the two
porta- potties were were so full and tore up on day two.

4. The organizers completely screwing up on the scoresheets and awarding the overall championship to the wrong guy.

5. The trophies saying MSD Nationals 2010.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more upset I get.

More?

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by microgoat

This is the internet. It's either that or caption some pictures of cats.

[jason]

Originally Posted by slobin3d

All that piss and vinegar and barely scratched 2 pages? Usually these threads are 10 deep in 2 hours

Wow, I am surprised that after wanting this pulled, you guys come in here asking for more.

It goes back for years.

Ask Ben if he remembers getting caught red handed making copies of another vendors product and selling it as such.

Ask Ben if he remembers selling raffle tickets to prizes that were donated by sponsors to be given to competitors.

Ask Ben if he remembers promising a competitor a refund and never following through with it.

Ask Ben if he remembers telling us he ran all of the 2.2 comp courses with a bone stock Axial ax-10, then during the comp filled with the best drivers in the country only 1 driver was able to finish 1 course.

Ask Ben if he remembers stealing all of our water to keep his judges hydrated.

Ask Ben if he remembers stealing my sunscreen to give to all his judges, then when I got pissed he went and stole someone else's to give to me.

Ask Ben if he remembers promising live coverage on RCC to all of his sponsors as part of their sponsorship package.

I could keep going, but I think you get the point.

I wasn't going to go there, remember you came in here asking for it.

[ROLANDROCKSHOP]

ouch..

[Tommy R]

Wow. I admit I heard a little bit about some of these concerns (and witnessed some at MSD '11). But between Tim's and Jason's lists, that's some pretty serious shit and much more extensive than I'd assumed.

[Harley]

There is always some talking that goes on after an event about what people didn't like. However MSD always seems to be a topic of poor organizing.

Partly that can be chalked up to the fact that competing with scale trucks is fawking stupid. Try and convince someone of this....the more scale something is the worse it will perform. Just think that one out. The most perfect scale truck ever will straight up get its ass handed to it.

But that really isn't the basis of the problems and most people know that. Ben does a good job hyping it up! It seems like a HUGE event, when in reality there are very few people there. All the effort is put into prizes and not enough on actually running the event.

All this is based on other peoples comments, I have never been there. So take that as you may.

[slobin3d]

Originally Posted by jason

Wow, I am surprised that after wanting this pulled, you guys come in here asking for more.

It goes back for years.

Ask Ben if he remembers getting caught red handed making copies of another vendors product and selling it as such.

Ask Ben if he remembers selling raffle tickets to prizes that were donated by sponsors to be given to competitors.

Ask Ben if he remembers promising a competitor a refund and never following through with it.

Ask Ben if he remembers telling us he ran all of the 2.2 comp courses with a bone stock Axial ax-10, then during the comp filled with the best drivers in the country only 1 driver was able to finish 1 course.

Ask Ben if he remembers stealing all of our water to keep his judges hydrated.

Ask Ben if he remembers stealing my sunscreen to give to all his judges, then when I got pissed he went and stole someone else's to give to me.

Ask Ben if he remembers promising live coverage on RCC to all of his sponsors as part of their sponsorship package.

I could keep going, but I think you get the point.

I wasn't going to go there, remember you came in here asking for it.

I remember the whole issue with eritex/RD400 we know how that ended. And Eritex doesn't have a vendors star any more

I remember the RCC tv thing, and us telling vendors that rcc tv was going to be there, and you and john saying we told them it was free... That bone you guys have had for a while, and I don't know the whole story, but the E-mails I saw never mention "free"

The other stuff I have no recollection of. but none of that has anything to to with last year, and whats this SECRET Prize room? I've been there and handed out every prize that was given too us.??

[jason]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

But between Tim's and Jason's lists, that's some pretty serious shit and much more extensive than I'd assumed.

All in all any single one of those things, or even a couple wouldn't be bad, none of them are super huge. However when all of them are put together it paints a pretty shitty picture.

Tim and I are just 2 people that posted our lists. I know of more.

[Tommy R]

I agree with part of what you said, Harley, but I do take offense to your comment that competing with scalers is stupid. Many of us have devoted countless hours to devising a rules system to accurately balance more/less realistic scalers for the sake of fair competition. I respect your opinion, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I certainly agree that I was expecting MSD to be a bigger event than it was. But ultimately, I could see how many participants there were on the registration website. Nonetheless, I was still expecting "more"....somehow.

[jason]

Originally Posted by slobin3d

I remember the whole issue with eritex/RD400 we know how that ended. And Eritex doesn't have a vendors star any more

I'm not talking about Eritex, or drastic sports for that matter, but funny you bring them up.

Originally Posted by slobin3d

I remember the RCC tv thing, and us telling vendors that rcc tv was going to be there, and you and john saying we told them it was free... That bone you guys have had for a while, and I don't know the whole story, but the E-mails I saw never mention "free"

You guys offered it included as part of your sponsorship, when it wasn't yours to give away. Even if you didn't specifically say it was free, when you list it as "will be provided" and then I go to them to try to sell it, you can see where the problem lays.

Originally Posted by slobin3d

IThe other stuff I have no recollection of. but none of that has anything to to with last year,

Correct, none of the stuff I commented on applies to lastyear, that is because I didn't go lastyear. I only commented on things I know for fact. I will let people that attended last year talk about lastyear.

Originally Posted by slobin3d

I
and whats this SECRET Prize room? I've been there and handed out every prize that was given too us.??

I don't know about that so I won't comment.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

I agree with part of what you said, Harley, but I do take offense to your comment that competing with scalers is stupid. Many of us have devoted countless hours to devising a rules system to accurately balance more/less realistic scalers for the sake of fair competition. I respect your opinion, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I know what you mean, but throwing the rules aside it gets down to the basics of it. If you literally scaled down a real truck, it would get its ass beat. That's the facts of the matter. So based on that, competing with scale trucks is a ridiculous idea.

I still love scalers, and live to compete with damn near anything. I'm so competitive I like to finish eating first.

The rules are ok, but you can't fix the fact that it doesn't work at the most basic levels. You can only hope to hide it.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Harley

If you literally scaled down a real truck, it would get its ass beat. That's the facts of the matter. So based on that, competing with scale trucks is a ridiculous idea.

That is a ridiculous comment to make. That'd be like a guy who ran in only the 2.2 class saying that 1.9's are stupid because they aren't as capable. Or a guy in supers saying that 2.2's are stupid because they aren't as capable. Or 1:1 saying all of these toys are stupid because they aren't as capable.

It doesn't matter the capabilities of the truck, the course designer just needs to keep that in mind and build an appropriate course with an appropriate level of obstacle difficulty.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

That is a ridiculous comment to make. That'd be like a guy who ran in only the 2.2 class saying that 1.9's are stupid because they aren't as capable. Or a guy in supers saying that 2.2's are stupid because they aren't as capable. Or 1:1 saying all of these toys are stupid because they aren't as capable.

It doesn't matter the capabilities of the truck, the course designer just needs to keep that in mind and build an appropriate course with an appropriate level of obstacle difficulty.

I think you're missing my point. I for one do own the same rigs. I do get the point of competing with them and do still enjoy it. What I'm saying is that if someone went to the limits of the basic idea behind it there would be a point where no amount of scale points would even out the field. We build rigs that balance it out. I still enjoy it.

The point is this. We built the USRCCA classes and trucks based on toy trucks going to the limits of our capabilities. The better you design a truck the further the class has evolved. Now we have rock crawling robot looking things pretty much but it is still one of my favorite things to do.

Now looking at scale the same way. If we kept designing parts to be even more realistic then we would not be making them more competitive. A true scale Dana 44 in a class one truck would snap housings and shafts with the drops we do on courses.

See what I mean? Not saying I don't enjoy it or get the idea of what we do.

Also not the point behind this thread...

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Harley

Also not the point behind this thread...

I know it wasnt....but this is chit chat, I thought the purpose of this forum is to take one thread down as many different paths as possible.

Originally Posted by Harley

What I'm saying is that if someone went to the limits of the basic idea behind it there would be a point where no amount of scale points would even out the field. We build rigs that balance it out. I still enjoy it.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I too run my scalers for fun...if there happens to be a competition, I will drive in it, but purely for entertainment. I am usually the guy with the truck saying "here's the truck I built, put me in whatever class you want".

I havent read all of the scale rules, but I think their attempt to classify the different rigs was with the intention of making things equal. It was to let folks be as scale (or not) as they please.

[sloppy]

I understand and follow you Harley..

Of course I think that is the first thing I have followed in this thread

[STANG KILLA SS]

this is gettig good!
popcorn smileys!

[BigBaller]

How's it smell in here now Aaron? IT STINKS!!

The ones who don't know or haven't seen any of this, should look at who is saying what. The people who have been involved! Competitors, judges, spectators all alike are seeing little bits here and there. Now, that the sh!t finally hit the fan and is being scattered all over.

Watch the video again please!

[Rockpiledriver]

I would be another vendor who had their parts copied and offered for sale by MSD. Including other smaller issues over the years with Ben. Once when I was trying to help him out of a bad situation no less.

I am over it... But since slobin asked.

[microgoat]

I love Festivus!

We've had the Airing Of Grievances. Who's up for Feats Of Strength?