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Old 03-27-2012, 08:12 AM   #1
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Default Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Found this poorly designed bling bling China chassis on eBay under the name SCX10. All this is is a shiny imitation Rolex lol. RC4WD influenced chassis/axles/tires, and Axial influenced tranny....and then you find out it's just a roller!!!

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

You have to be a retard to buy this for $460 + $80 shipping = $540?!

I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY ACTUALLY SOLD ONE!!

And then for some odd reason they list knock off Kyosho/Tamiya/RC4WD/EVEN Integy's 1/8 crawler knock off!

Ok...who in their right mind would try duplicate anything from Integy.

I actually feel sad to be part Chinese lol.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

I've got a lot of experience in product design/development/manufacturing and as I'm sure you know, it's really common to use manufacturers in China due to the low cost. I've had my own suspicions from time to time with regard to some manufacturers, but have heard first hand accounts from our quality reps... Basically, the same manufacturers making parts for the US companies will run the same molds/tooling/etc. (or nearly identical) to make their own parts to sell under a different name. So basically, they're stealing the development and design work from the US companies'.

As I understand it, there are no copyright laws to prevent them from doing this. Sure, there are agreements set in place to prevent these companies from using these molds/tooling to make products for other companies, but they'll just copy the tooling and proceed with business as usual.

It's a shame to see designs stolen like that. And it's one reason I won't buy from "off brand" manufacturers who copy other companies' designs.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Oh, but I should point out that obviously not all manufacturers overseas do this. But it appears a surprisingly high percentage of them do.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy R View Post
Basically, the same manufacturers making parts for the US companies will run the same molds/tooling/etc. (or nearly identical) to make their own parts to sell under a different name. So basically, they're stealing the development and design work from the US companies'.
There's one sure fire way for a company to make sure that their design isn't stolen by an overseas company in a country that doesn't operate under the same copyright laws as the US...................manufacturer the parts here!
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
There's one sure fire way for a company to make sure that their design isn't stolen by an overseas company in a country that doesn't operate under the same copyright laws as the US...................manufacturer the parts here!
If only Americans weren't so far in debt and living SO far beyond their means that they weren't driven to find the absolute cheapest price for every item. They don't realize the less ovbious "cost" to all of us by doing so.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Funny you bring up the mold/design/manufacturing techniques outsourced to China. My first job out of college was working for a Shanghai tire importer who brought in cheap Chinese tires from the two largest factories over there.

You don't even want to know how many tires we received that were out of round, impossible to balance, chunks of tread/bead CLEARLY missing, gum strips missing....man and the scary part is the largest factory that we get tires from in China manufactures almost all of Goodyear's lower end tires such as STR and STB (specialty trailer radial and bias).

Yup...the Goodyear Marathon look on the plant code behind the tire. MADE IN F'IN CHINA LOL.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

I lived and worked in China for 2 years and when I tell you there is no copyright law in affect over there. Just like some one said earlier , all it takes is 1 to get some thing made over there and they see where they can prosper , they going for it! Keep it in the USA and we will be good.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy R View Post
If only Americans weren't so far in debt and living SO far beyond their means that they weren't driven to find the absolute cheapest price for every item. They don't realize the less ovbious "cost" to all of us by doing so.
Stores don't sell cheaply made products because consumers demand it. Stores stock these products because it makes them more profit. Wal-mart, sears etc... switched to over seas manufactures to increase their bottom line not because we're too broke to buy something of quality. This site is a perfect example of the expendable income we have. Demanding skilled pay for unskilled jobs and expecting benefits to be piled on top of it is the main reason companies move overseas.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Having been in manufacturing and product development for my entire adult life, it is easy to see why most big companies have to resort to going overseas. Not only do overseas manufactured goods dictate shelf prices across the board, there's also been an increasing amount of greed from most US manufacturers for the last few decades. A ton of shops are trying to get $300-500 hourly billing for services that are worth $50-75 an hour. Wonder how true this is? Take a random china made part to a local machine shop and see what they would charge to make you a batch of them. Injection molded parts are even worse, typical small molds will run 8-10 grand just for the tool. Again, this upfront charge is tied to machine shop prices. A lot of mold houses in the US now have their molds machined and built in china and then shipped here to run parts on. Greed on every level has driven our money overseas. A lot would have to change to fix this problem.

I think these companies do it to themselves tho by having every component in a kit made in one shop. There is no protection when using china for manufacturing.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:11 AM   #10
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Reminds me of those "fake" apple stores that kept popping up all around china. Plenty of employees, big apple sign, the whole product line-up, and nothing to do with the store is affiliated with apple in any way what so ever.

Just baffles me China hasn't hired any half smart designers, came up with their OWN product, and ruled the market with it. Dono, seems all they do is the grunt work for everyone else.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SINister View Post
Stores don't sell cheaply made products because consumers demand it. Stores stock these products because it makes them more profit. Wal-mart, sears etc... switched to over seas manufactures to increase their bottom line not because we're too broke to buy something of quality. This site is a perfect example of the expendable income we have. Demanding skilled pay for unskilled jobs and expecting benefits to be piled on top of it is the main reason companies move overseas.
I agree with a lot of that. But nonetheless, I think people are drawn all too often to merely the cheapest price without giving enough consideration to other factors. I think it's a combo of corporate greed (like you said) and consumer greed (living beyond our means).

What's really sad is that I would gladly pay a couple extra bucks for a quality product made over here. Unfortunately, sometimes you literally don't have that option because it doesn't even exist. And that's a terrible sign.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:59 AM   #12
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

I can see your point we tried the "look for the made in the
USA label" campaign and no one really cared anymore after a couple of months. Pretty soon you will either have to have a college degree or flip burgers. The jobs in the middle will be lost overseas.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

well since the chassis is not C-channel its alright. i think you only have to change 30% of the original design from a manufacture for it not be copyright.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

I think you guys mean patent, and patent infringement.

China has nothing of the sorts.

While it is wrong, as stated above, money is the reason. Not everyone sees quality over quantity.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Ohhh shiny! I'll take 3.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billet works View Post
Having been in manufacturing and product development for my entire adult life, it is easy to see why most big companies have to resort to going overseas. Not only do overseas manufactured goods dictate shelf prices across the board, there's also been an increasing amount of greed from most US manufacturers for the last few decades. A ton of shops are trying to get $300-500 hourly billing for services that are worth $50-75 an hour. Wonder how true this is? Take a random china made part to a local machine shop and see what they would charge to make you a batch of them. Injection molded parts are even worse, typical small molds will run 8-10 grand just for the tool. Again, this upfront charge is tied to machine shop prices. A lot of mold houses in the US now have their molds machined and built in china and then shipped here to run parts on. Greed on every level has driven our money overseas. A lot would have to change to fix this problem.

There is no protection when using china for manufacturing.
This is WELL Said...............

and , Yes... Greed is the U.S's biggest problem...............
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Blame Gordon Gecko.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

There are international copyrights, but to my knowledge no international patents. Any US business that has its work done outside the borders is at risk for their design to be stolen. China is just the most obvious of the bunch.

And I'd think you'd all be surprised at how few parts in the rc market are truly patented. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that any one of us could reproduce 95% or more of the parts available to us and there wouldn't be a whole lot of legal action. Probably the worst thing that would happen legalwise would be a cease and desist letter from a couple big time mfgs.

On the other hand, the public backlash would be a bitch.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

What does "R and D" stand for in the US?
Research and Development.

What does "R and D" stand for in China?










Rob and Duplicate.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Isn't This Copyright Infringement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy R View Post
If only Americans weren't so far in debt and living SO far beyond their means that they weren't driven to find the absolute cheapest price for every item. They don't realize the less ovbious "cost" to all of us by doing so.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the best interests of the share holders, which is the principle ethical obligation for businesspersons.
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