Battery maker A123 Systems files for bankruptcy

[vonclod]

Originally Posted by rock hard

Nope, actually there are old reserves that are feed from even deeper below than what they knew excisted back in the day.

This type of oil is from the burnt materials deep within th earth ( it takes heat and pressure to produce oil )

the reason it is believed it takes so long for oil to be created is cuz of the time it would take to cover up the organisms to get the heat and pressure required.

But, on a daily basiis since the creation organismms have been creating oil, its not the dino's.

and now that they realize that there is oil created another 30,000 feet below that. A steedy supply, it was the russians who 1st stumbled upon this fact.

Their wells are lower than any fossils, and are steedily producing with no end in sight.

There are wells in this formaions capable of 150,000 barrels per day

I learned this last winter, I worked for russian company in the gas industry in a r&d facility. I was ablle to rub shoulders, and listen to alot of bigdogs.

They also say that oil os cleaner than natural gas, natural gas BURNS cleaner, but when you factor in all the additional variables
exploration, recovery, pipe lines, ect...natural gas actually has a greater footprint and is more costly to maintain the infastructur.

Oh I forgot, it was said that if our world oil cunsumption stayed under 100 million barrels a day, that there is enough reachablle with present technology to last roughly 2,000 yrs

Supply is not an issue

if you can find something to back that up i would appreciate it..i cant find anything that says we have any more than about 40 years of oil..and that is considered to be an inflated figure due to opec claiming the same reserves as 10 years ago..what they are allowed to sell is based on their reserves so its in their interests to overstate reserves..all the opec countries are doing this..also geologist have 2 basic conclusions on how oil comes to be..both take millions of years based on the info i gathered..i would be happy if can show this to be incorrect

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by vonclod

if you can find something to back that up i would appreciate it..i cant find anything that says we have any more than about 40 years of oil..and that is considered to be an inflated figure due to opec claiming the same reserves as 10 years ago..what they are allowed to sell is based on their reserves so its in their interests to overstate reserves..all the opec countries are doing this..also geologist have 2 basic conclusions on how oil comes to be..both take millions of years based on the info i gathered..i would be happy if can show this to be incorrect

+1.

I do understand some things that changes the "stated reserves", it's more of:

We look in new places
The costs of crude are high enough to justify "hard to get" oil
We come up with better ways to extract crude

[Mr.Slave]

The sooner we get away from burning things and polluting the planet to create energy the better off we will be.

[ColquittCustom405]

I heard Obama always has at LEAST $8K cash in 100 dollar bills on him at all times...crazy.

[GySgt Hartman]

Originally Posted by ColquittCustom405

I heard Obama always has at LEAST $8K cash in 100 dollar bills on him at all times...crazy.

Doesn't everybody...?

[vonclod]

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

+1.

I do understand some things that changes the "stated reserves", it's more of:

We look in new places
The costs of crude are high enough to justify "hard to get" oil
We come up with better ways to extract crude

i agree ..as far as some of the opec countries there have been no anouncements of new discoveries or finds due to exploration so imho its questionable about their claimed reserves, but im sure there is oil out there its just how much are people willing to pay per gallon..it isnt going to get cheaper
i think its a case of denial to have 20 sources of info in front of you and ignore the 19 that say we are in trouble and accept the 1 that says everything is hunky dory dont worry there is no problem..to accept there is a problem means we have to make changes and some people arent willing to accept that things have to change

[Mr.Slave]

Even a slight criticism of our dependence on oil and polluting energy sources is met with a wall of anger towards the critic, everybody should know it's harmful and they should sacrifice more to not be as wasteful, yet they don't they get mad at you for being critical of their behavior and that needs to change.

[spankbomb]

Quite simply, when you introduce more regulation into an industry, it only helps the establishment firms and entrenched interests. The history of the automobile industry itself bears this out. To wit, how many successful domestic automobile manufacturers were created in the last 50 years?

Going back to the industry in its infancy, there were many competing technologies all being developed simultaneously. That same climate for innovation is absent due to the amount of regulation which now exists.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

Even a slight criticism of our dependence on oil and polluting energy sources is met with a wall of anger towards the critic, everybody should know it's harmful and they should sacrifice more to not be as wasteful, yet they don't they get mad at you for being critical of their behavior and that needs to change.

You've been doing your part by driving a vehicle that runs on a hydrogen cell, solar cells or wind generated energy? Your house too?

It's YOUR behavior too.

People "get mad" because they don't like being criticized by a hypocrite.

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You've been doing your part by driving a vehicle that runs on a hydrogen cell, solar cells or wind generated energy? Your house too?

It's YOUR behavior too.

People "get mad" because they don't like being criticized by a hypocrite.

It is because socialism is good for the people not the socialist. Do as I say and ride the bus so I do not have to wait in traffic in my limo to get to my private jet.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by The Violator

It is because socialism is good for the people not the socialist. Do as I say and ride the bus so I do not have to wait in traffic in my limo to get to my private jet.

Its the people that always get fawked, isn't it? That statement could be applied to any social -ism you like.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by spankbomb

Quite simply, when you introduce more regulation into an industry, it only helps the establishment firms and entrenched interests.

Not always. Regulation can also protect the people from the corporation. Pollution, product safety, price gouging, straight up theft, etc.


I would shudder to think of what Wall Street would do with LESS regulation. They've already proved themselves pretty damned irresponsible.

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You've been doing your part by driving a vehicle that runs on a hydrogen cell, solar cells or wind generated energy? Your house too?

It's YOUR behavior too.

People "get mad" because they don't like being criticized by a hypocrite.

If I was arguing for elimination instead of minimizing of your impact, granted.
I'll have you know I ride a bike, walk or take the bus to where I need to go.

Think of it like the guy at the buffet that fills 3 plates full of food only eats 1 and throws the other 2 away, any reasonable person would say that's unacceptable or at the very least a dumb thing to do. So why is wasting fuel and energy accepted like it is?

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

If I was arguing for elimination instead of minimizing of your impact, granted.

And you think the people that you criticize don't try in their own ways to minimize impact?

So, you sold your vehicle?

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

So why is wasting fuel and energy accepted like it is?

The power you are using to run your computer right now isn't considered wasteful?

[spankbomb]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Not always. Regulation can also protect the people from the corporation. Pollution, product safety, price gouging, straight up theft, etc.


I would shudder to think of what Wall Street would do with LESS regulation. They've already proved themselves pretty damned irresponsible.

Completely bunk. Pollution is easily solved by upholding one's property rights. Product safety, price gouging and straight up theft are best left to the market and the courts for people to seek compensation for damages.

Instead, what we have now is the aura of regulation, enforcement by cronyism and entrenched interests protected by the power centers created by bureaucracy. If you think Wall Street is regulated now, by the revolving-door, porn-watching SEC, then you really are buying what they are selling. If Wall Street was allowed to blow themselves up, wouldn't have that been the greatest enforcement mechanism possible? New players, acting in their own self-interest, would have washed out the last 20 years of malfeasance in one fell swoop. The deleveraging would have been immense and painful, but, the pain would have been much shorter, similar to the depression of 1920-21. I encourage you to read about it. Similarly, re-examine everything you were taught in public school regarding FDR and the Great Depression.

Why are industries of enforcement/regulation, such as education, health care, housing, and automobiles, also centers of price inflation, while other segments of the economy, think home electronics, furntiure, appliances, computers, mobile technology, etc., have less government regulation, and also trend in the opposite direction? Ask yourself, why is an entry-level sedan cost more today than it did 10 years ago, but you can buy and HD, flat screen TV for less now than a comparable-size TV with nowhere near the functionality from 2000?

For every regulation either codified into law by Congress or created by the executive branch (no matter which party is in power) for "enforcement" purposes is created by the establishment, for the establishment.

You want real regulation, a free market is the best/cheapest mechanism for it.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by spankbomb

Completely bunk. Pollution is easily solved by upholding one's property rights. Product safety, price gouging and straight up theft are best left to the market and the courts for people to seek compensation for damages.

Instead, what we have now is the aura of regulation, enforcement by cronyism and entrenched interests protected by the power centers created by bureaucracy. If you think Wall Street is regulated now, by the revolving-door, porn-watching SEC, then you really are buying what they are selling. If Wall Street was allowed to blow themselves up, wouldn't have that been the greatest enforcement mechanism possible? New players, acting in their own self-interest, would have washed out the last 20 years of malfeasance in one fell swoop. The deleveraging would have been immense and painful, but, the pain would have been much shorter, similar to the depression of 1920-21. I encourage you to read about it. Similarly, re-examine everything you were taught in public school regarding FDR and the Great Depression.

Why are industries of enforcement/regulation, such as education, health care, housing, and automobiles, also centers of price inflation, while other segments of the economy, think home electronics, furntiure, appliances, computers, mobile technology, etc., have less government regulation, and also trend in the opposite direction? Ask yourself, why is an entry-level sedan cost more today than it did 10 years ago, but you can buy and HD, flat screen TV for less now than a comparable-size TV with nowhere near the functionality from 2000?

For every regulation either codified into law by Congress or created by the executive branch (no matter which party is in power) for "enforcement" purposes is created by the establishment, for the establishment.

You want real regulation, a free market is the best/cheapest mechanism for it.

Talk about bunk!

Factories polluted the air and the water and even the land for decades. It wasn't until the government stepped in that they changed course. Even now you'll hear a news bit every so often where a company is in hot water for contaminating something.

It takes a lot of time and money to sue a corporation. There is a very good chance that you'll run out of patience and money before they do.

Wall Street ideally should have been left to die by their own hand, but they are intertwined so deeply within not only the national economy but also that of the world. If they had fallen completely, things would have been much, much worse that they were.

You cannot lump all markets into one. The ones you listed with the most regulation are also those with the biggest impact on health and safety to those that use them.

Make a shitty car or house or get some inadequate medical assistance, someone could die.

Make a shitty end table or tv or mobile electronic device, chances are pretty good that no ones life will end because of it.

Believe it or not, there are people that have no ethics when it comes to making a profit. They don't care about long or short term effects of their products or services, or you for that matter, they just want your money. Unfortunately there are quite a few of those people that have excelled in the business world and sit among some very powerful and influential people. These are the bulk of the people that complain about regulation. In a truly free market with no regulation, they would knock us down like weeds. Then, when they were done doing that, they would go after each other.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Factories polluted the air and the water and even the land for decades. It wasn't until the government stepped in that they changed course. Even now you'll hear a news bit every so often where a company is in hot water for contaminating something.

Yeah, now they have to pay money to be able to pollute how they wish.....

[vonclod]

still waiting for the info on the 2000+ yrs of oil we have left..fairy tale
im not telling everyone to give up their car..hell i love my v8 regal..just dont drive it every day..i,m suggesting that we need to keep working on solutions

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Yeah, now they have to pay money to be able to pollute how they wish.....

Yep. That is a damn poor way to regulate something.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Yep. That is a damn poor way to regulate something.

Agreed. We have several guys in our club who currently do, or have in the past worked for some of the oil refineries around here. They say that the penalties issued by the government are almost laughable to the companies....and that they'd pay them in a heartbeat to continue operating the way they do.