NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

[joesbruiser]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

Absolutely gorgeous gun

I honestly think that if everyone was as responsible as you the event from just over 1 week ago would not have occurred.

The problem is though, like with any walk of life not everyone is as responsible.

As an example there is a gal at our offices that has taken her driving test 12 times

Shes knows i do some track driving tuition so asked me to give her my honest opinion on her driving on the lunch break.
Now i've gone over 200mph on a motorbike been driven through a forest at 100mph in the rain with trees inches away and although i was scared i managed to stay cool.

This broad scared the crap out of me.
She had absolutely no spacial awareness, no idea on the controls and failed to put the handbrake on when we parked.
I rolled out the car as white as a ghost.

This broad should not be driving on public roads, she doesn't have the necessary skills nor responsibility (when i suggested that she put the handbrake on, she looked behind her and told me there was a car behind to stop her car).

Why should guns be any different?

Shouldn't people that want to own and operate guns show a reasonable amount of skill and responsibility?

In your case you have invested a lot of your time, money and energy into your hobby and it seems as though it's a hobby that's shared with your family, something that you should be congratulated on as that's a rare thing these days.

I cannot imagine for a second that a local cop requesting a look at your gun safe would put you off your hobby for even a fraction of a second.

Likewise if your AR15's required say another level of licensing i can't imagine that filling out a form would put you off either.

Both ball aches no doubt.
But the way i see it is, if those small inconveniences prevent a tragedy of these proportions occurring again in the future surely it's a compromise that's worth it?

What bad can come out of semi automatic AR15 type guns requiring gun safes and to be kept in the safe when not in use?

What bad can come from having a scale of licensing with more background checks being carried out the more deadly the gun?

It's not preventing honest decent folks like yourself from perusing your hobby, but if it makes it difficult even slightly more for these crazies to carry out mass murder is it not worth it?

It is to me and i honestly believe it's a better solution than armed guards at schools.

I would like to see armed guards in all schools.It clearly works as a deterrent in or area or we just don't have crazies no way to really answer that one i guess.
I see nothing wrong with most of what you said above but the problem with the situation here is they will not just make restrictions so you have to have a safe or a little extra paper work.,
I am willing to bet that they will not give honest responsible gun owners a second thought.They will instead just start banning stuff based off of looks.And when it comes down to it I feel it violates the 2nd amendment and I do not agree with that.
As for guns being a soft spot with me yes they are and because it is a family sport for us . No different than RC Crawling was for us for several years.And i consider several of the folks here on the site family. My wife and 13 year old son compete in shooting comps.Heck I would even say my sons comp AR based 22LR rifle would be considered evil to most but its just a 22lr.

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

I did and my interpretation was that they heavily sold the armed forces influence on the design.

Ok so the armed forces influenced the design...... and that makes it a bad gun??


The imagery is strongly direct that way though.

Imagery goes along with imagination, and Im sure commercials that are aired on your television are not suggestive at all.


Do you mean the recent knife attack?
23 people stabbed, all survived.

In the 7 attacks since 2010 only 2 attacks involved a fatality.

In total 97 kids and adults were attacked since 2010, 17 died as a result.

An absolute disgusting tragedy, but tell me in all honesty if those attackers had access to AR15's do you believe so many would have gone home that night?

I do agree absolutely disgusting tragedy, and yes if those attackers had access to an AR more would not have gone home, but and this is a huge but...... i thought we were on the "whatever it takes to save another life". Im fast forwarding to after we get rid of all the firearms.... and now you are coming back here preaching to us that knives over 3 inches need to be banned. Regardless of what they are using be it a knife, assault weapon, bomb, car, asbestos, nuclear warfare, IED, anthrax, etc etc. Its going to continue to happen until we get to the root of the problem not the tools used. If I hand a blind guy a hammer and he hits his hand.... do i go well hell maybe he should only get a pipe wrench, must have been the hammer? Or do i get to the root and say... hmmmm blind guys shouldnt be swinging hammers? And blaming guns is like fat people blaming the forks for being fat. COME ON. Its again i will say it RESPONSIBILITY

I'm not arguing that bad people are out there, even as a staunch atheist i still find the only real way to describe these people is pure evil.

Someone somewhere WILL attack a school again, someone somewhere will attempt a mass murder event again.
Absolutely no doubt about that.

Throughout your posts and especially in the start you were on the suggestive side that there was a great "FIX ALL" to all of these issues and this wasnt the way..... this other way was.

My entire point is, shouldn't we work towards restricting the access these evil people have to weapons that make mass murder easy for them?

Yes we should...... going with your word suggestive, James Brady ideas I think no.

If we don't have the technology or know how to detect this evil before it occurs then as a morally responsible society we HAVE to do something.
What else can we do that's as effective at preventing these evil doers as making it as difficult as possible for them to get their hands on effective killing equipment?

Like I said before making it so that the firearms do not leave the care of the rightful, legal and responsible owners is what I feel is the best way of attack. No way do I think that any bans will change anything at all, nor do I think the extreme of taking all citizens firearms is the way. WE are a country who has fought against Europeans for our own independence, fought against ourselves all for the 27 amendments in our Constitution. Many have died protecting these "rights" this is where i say.... i personally will not let the people who died fighting for these rights to die in vain for a "fix" that has been proven to not be effective. I do feel something is in need of being done.... I said this when columbine happened.

Did you ever take the read on 8 mins of fame??

I've never once said the UK or myself have anything figured out.

In fact i've said several times that you can't stop people killing each other, i don't know how much clearer i can make that point.

You made it clear this time...... but towards the start of this your posts were misleading towards you and the UK were on top of it all.

You are the one that has bought up the UK a lot more than i have.
There is no comparison, the entire mentality, mindset and media are entirely different.

With words like "we" and "here" suggest you did bring it up, my rebuttals have been towards the debate that your laws wont work here due to they have not worked there.

You an't argue with the facts


0.03 illegal gun homicides per 100,000 people in the UK
3.2 illegal gun homicides per 100,000 people in the USA
Figures here

You are well over 100 times more likely to get murdered by a gun in the USA than you are in the UK.



AGAIN i'm not holding that up as an example to follow, the laws there are too strict IMO, but still it's a start.

................................

[Crimson Rock Crawler]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

You don't have to be so frightened of burglars, i'm sure your Ninja pyjama's would scare them off, well until your parents got home.

That's . Every time you stick your foot in your mouth and you're called out you always have some childish comeback !!!!


Merry Christmas !!!

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

My entire point is, shouldn't we work towards restricting the access these evil people have to weapons that make mass murder easy for them?

Sure sounds good in your make believe world. 1st who are the evil ones. Lets put them away some place, think they'll give up without a fight, better take a gun.
Restricting will only keep good people from getting guns. The bad and evil people will get them through the black market. Then only the evil bad people will have them and we won't be able to stop them from doing what your trying to stop them from doing.
Thats the real world, come join us here so you really know whats going on and then you won't look like a fwcking dumbass. Just trying to help you out buddy, I can't stand seeing somebody make such a fool out of himself.

Merry Christmas.

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

So what, we're the apple and everyone else are the oranges?

Many other countries have, or are enduring some of the same struggles as we have/are. To disregard there thoughts simply because they hail from a different continent and culture is silly IMHO.


And speaking of off topic, we're both off it.

Come on man, for the third time now these other countries don't have 300,000,000 guns already out there.

So yes, when comparing us to European countries it's like apples to oranges. What may work there will not work here.

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Come on man, for the third time now these other countries don't have 300,000,000 guns already out there.

So yes, when comparing us to European countries it's like apples to oranges. What may work there will not work here.

Well not only that, we have been around a lot shorter of time.... Going from 13 colonies said to fail to 50 states under one constitution and may programs set up nation wide
... That was all said world wide " couldn't be done" go figure....... Turn the mayflower around..... It will never work

[dkf]

Originally Posted by JokersWild

Well duh..... if you are hard up and have the cash you can get drugs and guns from the US gov. Hell ask Bill Clinton, his brother says "Billy has a nose like a vacuum cleaner"

[Rockpiledriver]

Here ya go cb whatever.

NO "assault rifles" were used ALL handguns.

Investigation is 'very complex' - Video on TODAY.com

[spookyseven]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

I'm saying that there NEEDS to be restrictions, there NEEDS to be tougher licensing and people NEED to take responsibility for their guns and keep them locked up where kids do not have the code or access to them.

Through your arguments this seems to be the main point you are trying to make. The problem is why do you think gun restrictions will work here just because they worked there? Take mexico for example. The factors that contribute to shootings are much greater than the availibility of guns yet it is the only point you are trying to make.

Want to talk percentages again? How would have the percentages been different if he went crazy in a school that allowed a handful of teachers to cary? It would have only taken one shot to take him down.


...and please don't try your "oh that's irrelevant" crap.

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by spookyseven

...and please don't try your "oh that's irrelevant" crap.

If he did that he wouldn't have an arguement where he could throw on some % numbers


Really he has Prolly been reading up and feeling more and more he is looking stupid by mis information and just dumb luck...... Hell that his region has little insight due to their history of stupid moves all together........ Maybe they should vote Nero 2013?

[cuzican]

An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation

[JokersWild]

Hmmmm.... Must have gotten shot in a drive by with a wrist rocket.



Oh and good article above!

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by cuzican

An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation

Wow....just, wow.....long read (I just skimmed the replt posts).

Thanks for the link, I learned a few things from the blog.

PS, yes, I'm sending the link to some others for them to read. Not to sway them one way or another, just to learn a bit more info.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Utah is putting guns on teachers

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by cuzican

An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation

Great read!

[cbr6fs]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Here ya go cb whatever.

NO "assault rifles" were used ALL handguns.

Investigation is 'very complex' - Video on TODAY.com

Quoted so you cannot edit your post when the official findings are released

Originally Posted by spookyseven

Through your arguments this seems to be the main point you are trying to make. The problem is why do you think gun restrictions will work here just because they worked there? Take mexico for example. The factors that contribute to shootings are much greater than the availibility of guns yet it is the only point you are trying to make.

AGAIN it's basic maths at play here.
Less legal guns = Less guns for criminals to steal

I do accept that in the US that's gong to take time to filter down, but still it's the lives of your kids and your kids kids so the sooner the better

Surprised you mentioned Mexico as it's gun problem is a direct result of guns that are bought in the USA and sent over.
ATF Says Most Guns Used in Mexican Crimes Come From the US

The Mexican government have been begging for tighter gun control for years.

Originally Posted by spookyseven

Want to talk percentages again? How would have the percentages been different if he went crazy in a school that allowed a handful of teachers to cary? It would have only taken one shot to take him down.


...and please don't try your "oh that's irrelevant" crap.

Let me put it this way.

In 2008 there were 680 deaths from accidental shootings in the USA.
15,500 injuries.

Even sadder is the fact that 5 children are killed or injured each year as a result of accidental shootings.
Accidental Shooting | TheSurvivorsClub.org

Now think that there are nearly 100,000 public schools in the US.

The NRA are suggesting at least 1 security guard at each school.

Lets average it out at around 200 school days in a calender year.
That's 20 million work days at all US schools a year.

So lets say an accident like that is a 1 in a million chance, that's still 20 a year of these 1 in a million chances.

Multiply the amount of guns at a school and that percentage goes up dramatically.

So even IF armed guards were able to do anything, it's still doubtful that the amount of lives saved during these mass murders would out balance the amount of injuries and deaths from accidental shootings at these schools.

That's a big IF as well.
The armed guard at Columbine certainly saved some lives by diverting fire, BUT there were still 16 deaths and 21 injured that day.

YES it could have been a LOT worse BUT that's still 16 kids that didn't go home that night.

And that's really the crux of the problem, a armed guard can only react, a kid still will die before they can do anything.

Then there is the confusion of having more than 1 armed person at a mass murder like this, the police HAVE to go through the procedure with each and every one of them until they are unarmed and in custody.
Add in a loud confused and adrenalin enthused environment and i am unfortunately in no doubt that:
a/ Time will be wasted disarming and cuffing these armed guards
b/ There WILL be a instance where confusion reigns and one is shot

Still we haven't talked about a inexperienced and varying skill level of shooter discharging their gun in a school.
What happens with the kids that are caught in the cross fire or from bullets that missed their target (the nutter)?
Again it WILL happen.

I am THAT certain these will happen as this problem is not going to go away, once you have armed guards at schools your into it for the long run of generations.

Add into that varying degrees of experience, skill and weapons plus the fact that any nutter worth his salt is going to go straight for the armed guard before venturing out on their path of suffering and murder and it kinda gets reasonable people thinking there should be a better way.

But lets say the NRA is right and next week every school in the USA has a exSWAT armed guard with a fully automatic gun and barricades around the school with raised firing position and a sniper nest.

These nutters will just move onto the next soft target like playgrounds or soft plays, kids baseball, soccer etc.
History has shown this to be true with criminals so why should this instance be any different?

Before you know it you've got your kids being escorted by armed security guards 24 hours a day.
Granted they might be safe from nutters, but is that a quality of life you want you kids to live and grow up around?

Originally Posted by JokersWild

If he did that he wouldn't have an arguement where he could throw on some % numbers


Really he has Prolly been reading up and feeling more and more he is looking stupid by mis information and just dumb luck...... Hell that his region has little insight due to their history of stupid moves all together........ Maybe they should vote Nero 2013?

Is that what you've lowered your opinion down to, cheap playground insults and trolling

Very disappointing

Originally Posted by cuzican

An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation

Hardly a unbiased opinion though is it?

Basically for most of my adult life, I have been up to my eyeballs in guns, self-defense instruction, and the laws relating to those things

Over the course of a couple years I taught well over $20,000 worth of free CCW classes

Kinda makes you think that if he taught $20,000 worth of free classes just how much money did he make by instilling civilians with fear?

[dezfan]

I exercised my 2nd Amendment rights today. Purchased 2000 more rounds of ammo and went the gun range.

Strangest thing happened, no mass shooting, murders, car jackings, or armed robberies occurred?

You would think with all that ammunition, firearms, and gun owners. Something bad would have happened?

[joesbruiser]

You know the more I think about it some people in our Dumb ASS government are going to try and get some sort of weapons ban.The chances of them getting it are very slim.
So lets say if they do there will still be tons of so called Assault weapons out there for us to shoot.They will never be able to take what we already have.I was looking at the reports that are out there and talking to several people about the amount of AR bassed rifles,magazines and High capacity semi auto pistols that have sold in the last 2-3 weeks .
I bet because of all the hype there has been 3-4 normal years worth of sales in just that time.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

I am THAT certain these will happen as this problem is not going to go away, once you have armed guards at schools your into it for the long run of generations.

The ability to predict the future is a helluva skill.....you shouldn't waste it on this piddly little website, head to the horse track!

[joesbruiser]

Originally Posted by dezfan

I exercised my 2nd Amendment rights today. Purchased 2000 more rounds of ammo and went the gun range.

Strangest thing happened, no mass shooting, murders, car jackings, or armed robberies occurred?

You would think with all that ammunition, firearms, and gun owners. Something bad would have happened?

Melanie ordered 2000 rounds of ammo a couple days before x-mass it showed the day before what a great gift.I wonder what the UPS guy was thinking when he was carrying the heavy boxes up to the house that said small arms ammunition?
I will be placing a order next week for a couple thousand more rounds.You can never have to much ammo.
You here Dumb ASS people talking about putting limits on ammo purchases or make the store report any sale over a thousand rounds.They will be calling on us all the time because a thousand rounds is just enough to get the weekend started good.Especially if we get the 15/22s out.