NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

[GEARSCIENCE]

Originally Posted by JokersWild

Well like I stated to cbr whatever. If you are going to post up information or a "statistic" sounding statement at least give me some data.

Actually issues have been in a decline. I had all the official stats straight from FBI web page but lost the link to that. But this article will do you just fine. Instead of just numbers he draws it out to a colorful set of graphs for ya to look at and understand. Gun crime has actually been on the decline....

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

isnt gun ownership in the United States declining overall? maybe theres a correlation?
Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control

[DUDE]

Originally Posted by JokersWild

Well like I stated to cbr whatever. If you are going to post up information or a "statistic" sounding statement at least give me some data.

I wasn't referring to just gun violence, I am talking about violence in general. I am not saying there has never been violence in the past, but we are exposed to it more than ever, and acts of violence seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

BTW: I am 50, I have seen this trend since high school. So depending on how old you are, it would determine how much you see how things have changed.

[joesbruiser]

Originally Posted by JokersWild

Well like I stated to cbr whatever. If you are going to post up information or a "statistic" sounding statement at least give me some data.

Actually issues have been in a decline. I had all the official stats straight from FBI web page but lost the link to that. But this article will do you just fine. Instead of just numbers he draws it out to a colorful set of graphs for ya to look at and understand. Gun crime has actually been on the decline....

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

I do belive this is the chart you were thinking of?
FBI — Table 20

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by GEARSCIENCE

isnt gun ownership in the United States declining overall? maybe theres a correlation?
Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control

I like the fact you actually posted a link to your stats..... Issue I have is (to me)the washington post really a joke with their bias directions and edited information. This is why I try to only give info from the source and why I dont post from snoops.com and the like. So I still give you a thumbs up!! But lets just take a small look at this. Their stats are based off of what? Registered firearms ?? Im sorry but some states do not register firearms nor do they get any info on the transferring of them. Basically you can find the numbers you seek by looking into the number of firearms produced in the us that are not exported.... and look at the number of firearms imported. Those numbers are drastically different from the scale seen saying numbers are dropping. Or you can contact RAAC and ask them about numbers per year going back 10 years and build your graph from that........ Have you been to the gun shop since Sandy Hook??? Might want to go check em out they say also sales have not gone down.

And to Joesbruiser I have that one but had another showing all in us not the state by state break down. And showing them all according to years. No big deal I will find it if i sit down and look. Thanks for the link tho

[cbr6fs]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

It's called a hypothetical. You like percentages so much, tell us how you think the percentages WOULD have changed with an armed guard/officer on scene as it happened.

If you say the percentage of the chance that less lives would have been lost would not be greater, please explain why you feel that way.

FACT is there was nobody there that could have stopped a man with a gun.

And that's the thing if people sat and thought things through and stopped being so scared the FACTS speak for themselves

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Wrong! The guard see guy walking toward the school gun in hand, draws and drops him BEFORE he gets a shot off.

You're an idiot.

What about workmen carrying hand tools, teachers carrying umbrellas, students coming to school with toy guns.

In the real world a armed security guard at a school has THAT many rules and regulations to work by they're pretty much crippled unless he sees shots fired or is fired upon.

Originally Posted by joesbruiser

It sounds to me like you want to live in a fantasy world where everyone loves one another and no guns would help your fantasy come true.If its not guns it will be something else.The country needs to grow a pair realize guns are not the problem but sure as hell can help it and move on.
My position will never change on training and arming people to staff schools and I am glad our school system here local already has.

People will always find a way to do bad things to each other.

Apart from the extinction of the human race i can't see any way of changing that.

What we can change though are the weapons that these people use to kill innocent kids with.

It works, it's how we live in Europe.

It took us some time and tragedies like Dunblane for us to get there, but in recent history, mass murder by a lone crazy bloke is a problem solved.
Our kids are safer as a result.

Originally Posted by joesbruiser

How in the hell did you come up with that.
gun control will allow enthusiastic shooters to enjoy there hobby responsibly. All I see it doing is make it damn expensive to enjoy the hobby and stop lots of people from getting to be involved in the shooting sports.

It's as cheap or as expensive as you make it.

If you can't afford a few hundred $ for a gun safe at home then it's time to evaluate if you can really afford shooting as a hobby.

Originally Posted by JokersWild

Ah because he is a total idiot and has yet to have a true rebuttal to anything that has been posted towards him. Keeps talking in circles about the same jive insuring it all is such a small "inconvenience". In reality it is much different as he states. And he shouldnt be saying "OUR" hobby when its ours not his. He is obviously not a gun owner..... nor collector.... no really understands or has heard any of the proposed ideas of the "weapons bans". Nor can he actually tell me there is a difference to what an actual assault weapon is and what these banning weapons extremists idea of an assault weapon. its very different. But hell hes on top of the world over there in his head.

What's to rebuttal, 26 dead in one instance by 1 person.
A skinny little runt of a kid that would probably get his ass handed to him by those 7 year olds if he wasn't armed to the teeth.

Every year you sit there and argue is another year your fellow countrymen and women are murdered in cold blood.

We no longer have mass murders by single nutters any more.
Gun licensing has taken it's time, but it's starting to work now in the UK.

I can still shoot and hunt, plus i'm safe in the knowledge that my kids and their friends cannot gain access to the guns or the ammunition because it's all secured in safes.

I hunt and a shoot, and i enjoy using firearms.
I'm not some anti-gun nut, i believe there is a compromise where you guys can enjoy your hobby BUT live in a FAR safer environment.

It means that folks are going to have to stop stamping their feet like kids screaming "i want, i want, i want" people need to take responsibility for their hobby, if guns are getting into the wrong hands and mass murder is taking place on as a regular occurrence as it is then the ONLY way to stop it is by compromise and control of semi-automatic high capacity magazine weapons.

I've made the compromise and can tell you, it really is nothing.
Your arguing and throwing a tantrum about something that's inconsequential compared to 1 kids life, never mind the mass murders that are occurring year in year out.

Originally Posted by War Pig

Gun control is just that, one more thing that the "government" thinks it needs to control. The government needs less control and needs to concentrate on more important things. Anyone that wants to do bad things can get ahold of a weapon, even with gun control laws. I agree with whoever above said you were an idiot.

If firearms are licensed and controlled it really is extremely difficult for criminals to get their hands on them.
It does take time to clear up all the illegal guns, it took over 10 years before we started seeing results in the UK BUT results are coming and our kids are safer as a direct result.

You need to form a distinction in your mind, a distinction that's EXTREMELY important.
YES people will continue to find ways to kill each other BUT mass murder is something completely different.
The tools of mass murder where a poorly trained skinny runt of a kid can murder 26 people in mins NEED to be controlled.
Not just the licensing but also at homes, they NEED to be locked up when not in use.

If people can't see that then their head is so far up the NRA's arse they really can't see the daylight of the real world.

Originally Posted by NoobCrawler

cb, why don't you just stop. You're going to get your ass handed to you again. People who want to cause harm will always find a way. Look at inmates, they use everyday items to stab other inmates all the time. Why don't you just stay out of these threads, you're just making yourself look stupid.

I had a hell of a time sleeping last night...I heard my gun making some plans last night while in the lockbox...it kept calling other guns.

I feel that i have a moral obligation to inform folks that for those of us that enjoy hunting and shooting restrictions are not THAT bad.

Again weapons THAT efficient at mass murder that a skinny runt of a 20 year old kid can slaughter 26 people, putting 11 bullet holes into some kids NEEDS to be tightly regulated.

In an ideal world people would be left to their own devices with no regulation BUT it's obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense that, that is simply not working.

I've hunted most things that can be legally hunted in Europe, from rabbits to deer and Wild boar.
Not once have i wished i had a AR15.
To be honest if i had one with me i would not have used it.

You can hunt and enjoy shooting without NEEDING these penis extensions .
I have a mate in texas who has the biggest gun collection i've seen in civilian life.
He's also gayer than Liberace, in a pink bunny outfit at a gay pride march in gayton, gaysville.

Guns do not make you a man and a gun collection doesn't make you any tougher or any more of a man.

Whats makes you a man is when you wake up and take responsibility that your hobby, and your calling for nothing to change is directly responsible for the next mass murder of innocent civilians.

If your a Civilian and you own a AR15 then your either a insecure kid in a man body and need to seek help, or your a planning on the end of the world insecure kid in a mans body that needs to seek help.

Yes you can hunt with these guns, but any experienced hunter knows there are better tools for the job.
The ONLY reason you'd buy a gun like that is out of some bragging rights to sure up your manhood.

That's great and if the world wasn't so full of crazy nutters that are hell bent on executing 6 and 67 year old kids with these guns i'd stand next to you on the range and ask for a go.
As it is though your insecurities are enabling these nutters to put their hands extremely easily on these weapons of mass murder.

So i'm saying you guys need to sort your shit out and do something and quickly before the next mass murder event takes place.

[Crimson Rock Crawler]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

The NRA has a revenue of over $200 million a year, if guns are heavily restricted this revenue will drop dramatically.
So they have a vested interest in arming more people.

LaPierre earns just under $1 million a year from his job with the NRA so he has a vested interest in arming more people.


So again, having a organisation that makes money from the firearms industry offer an opinion on a solution exagerated by firearms is absolutely ridiculous.

Once again.....you talk about something you have no clue about.....The NRA doesn't make one penny on firearm sales, they do not manufacture or sell any firearms so they have no vested intrest in arming more people for the sake of making a profit !!! They are,however, heavily involved in protecting my 2nd Amendment rights as a citizen of the USA.

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by DUDE

I wasn't referring to just gun violence, I am talking about violence in general. I am not saying there has never been violence in the past, but we are exposed to it more than ever, and acts of violence seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

BTW: I am 50, I have seen this trend since high school. So depending on how old you are, it would determine how much you see how things have changed.

Since you posted yours I will post mine. Im 35 years old. I think (and hopefully you can see it) that "Media" has expanded your sight as has with a lot of others. I feel that things that happen from a far are seen and heard world wide a lot more than they were years ago. Not that these things are happening more and more but that every thing that is happening now you can catch 5 mins after it has occurred when in years prior you would have not heard about it at all.

So the statement about exposure is a catch 22 in where said person is exposed to X violence but who is exposing it??? Media..... this is an area I really dont care for. I feel that media gears you to what they would like you to see..... not that someone did something positive but only show you the negative. Just to prove my point here...... Turned on the news for five mins..... just saw a cop saved a small child from a run away shopping cart, some chick being eaten by an escalator and some chicks spinning round and round drunk in the sub way. With this are we going to get rid of the killer shopping carts? Shut down the escalator and use the stairs and say the drunk chicks ruined the sub way for all?? Your generation was graduating HS in 1980. This is where media hit its explosive growth..... coverage around the world was just populating and cable and satellite were starting to give LIVE coverage. So this may or may not explain the expansion from then to now on this growth, exposure or coverage on things. Now its funny that we are here now in the 1980s because this brings up a huge huge huge silly little fact that I feel does play into this, you talk about things getting worse??? What happened with the Iran-Contra affair? Talk about things forgotten and swept under the rug. Things played one way..... found out about others to get turned into nothing. I know some may not be informed on it so maybe just googling it and taking a small read will not only help you see the media making things show up and then disappear but your government not being able to hold their own responsibility.

All of this and heres what I had to deal with a short time ago when I went to costco.....

Its dark im far out in the parking lot.... start backing out of spot (moved maybe two feet) and some fat mexican broad starts screaming and yelling slamming her hands on the side of my car. I stop and get out.... gets right in my face screaming at me that im an idiot because I almost ran over her child who was running from her (at this point the child is still running across the parking lot, mother not in tow). I proceed to tell her its funny how my child didnt run across parking lot because I had my hand on her and unless she dosent want a speed bump for a child she best go take care of that.

Yes I am an ass. I know this and am proud.... but at the same time be being an ass is because of the realness I present. I will not take the responsibility from said person to make their life easier. Why would I be responsible for her actions?? Not sure but this is all over the place.... lack of responsibility and this is what I think has changed. Not that there is more acts of violence but yet I get to see it a lot more due to media coverage. I do think there is more lack of responsibility from people for their own actions.

[cbr6fs]

Originally Posted by Crimson Rock Crawler

Once again.....you talk about something you have no clue about.....The NRA doesn't make one penny on firearm sales, they do not manufacture or sell any firearms so they have no vested intrest in arming more people for the sake of making a profit !!! They are,however, heavily involved in protecting my 2nd Amendment rights as a citizen of the USA.

Who said anything about it taking money from firearms sales?

It's pretty obvious that if less people buy firearms then they will have fewer members.
Fewer members = less money

As i say hardly a unbiased opinion is it?

For me personally i'd put the rights for kids to be safe in schools and in their lives over some stupid amendment that's as outdated as the paper it was written on.

It's a case of priorities.
If you want your kids safe in schools and safe when out with their mates then compromises NEED to be made.

The crazy folks aren't going anywhere, they'll just crazier and crazy more often.

The ONLY way to stop this sort of things happening again on this scale is to prevent them from getting their hands on weapons of mass murder.

[dkf]

I was watching CNN and they where showing schools which have an armed guard. The one guard they showed was carrying a revolver. Six rounds to get the job done.

Believe it or not some companies dictate the firearm that is carried and require it. A fellow on another sight was taking a job as either a security guard or armored truck driver (can't remember) and he was required to carry a revolver.

[spankbomb]

Originally Posted by Crimson Rock Crawler

Once again.....you talk about something you have no clue about.....The NRA doesn't make one penny on firearm sales, they do not manufacture or sell any firearms so they have no vested intrest in arming more people for the sake of making a profit !!! They are,however, heavily involved in protecting my 2nd Amendment rights as a citizen of the USA.

Umm, actually you talk about something you have no clue about. In the 2010 filings, which I posted earlier in this thread, on page 9 you will see the revenue the NRA had in 2010. Out of $227M in total revenue, only $100M was from membership dues. The remainder came from things such as "other gifts and contributions", i.e., corporate gifts to the tune of $58M, royalties of $11M, and almost $21M in advertising. Another interesting on item on page 9, is revenue of $11M on "inventory sales." Probably T-shirts, hats and pens, but still interesting.

If you think the NRA does not have a vested interest in arming more people for profit, whether it be you, me, LEO, armed SRO at your kid's school, our military or the cartel member south of the border, you are no better than a common fool.

In fact, probably worse. If you are armed.

[dezfan]

Statistically speaking...

[spankbomb]

Originally Posted by dezfan

Statistically speaking...

"According to the FBI, the #1 weapon used in violent crimes... is a baseball bat."

Violent crimes. But do they end up as homicides?

Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Weapons used

[War Pig]

I get it now, this cbr guy is European, that explains alot.

Over 40,000 people get killed by automobiles every year in the US. Last year 348 people were killed by rifles, I would assume that a small percentage of that is from assault rifles. Please don't tell me that regulating rifles that holds more than 5 rounds is going to change anything. It would take my lifetime for the government to round up all the "dangerous" rifles in the US. Don't be stupid.

The biggest issue nowadays is the worldwide coverage of events like the one in CT. It's instant "stardom" for these losers that haven't done anything worthwhile in their lives. I would be willing to bet that without the in depth coverage that these shootings get, many of them wouldn't happen. These are sick people wanting to leave their mark on history. With the violence on TV, in movies, video games and the evening news it just seems like every day life to these people. They see that and say "nobody has ever listened to me before, if I do something crazy then everyone will know who I was".

Banning any firearms isn't going to change anything. The change will come from teaching our children the right things, getting the mentally ill help, and watching out for each other.

I'm also pretty sure that any trained police officer that sees a 20 year old person walking toward the front door of a school with an AR15 is going to make it tough for that person to do much damage in that school......

[Crimson Rock Crawler]

Originally Posted by spankbomb

Umm, actually you talk about something you have no clue about. In the 2010 filings, which I posted earlier in this thread, on page 9 you will see the revenue the NRA had in 2010. Out of $227M in total revenue, only $100M was from membership dues. The remainder came from things such as "other gifts and contributions", i.e., corporate gifts to the tune of $58M, royalties of $11M, and almost $21M in advertising. Another interesting on item on page 9, is revenue of $11M on "inventory sales." Probably T-shirts, hats and pens, but still interesting.

If you think the NRA does not have a vested interest in arming more people for profit, whether it be you, me, LEO, armed SRO at your kid's school, our military or the cartel member south of the border, you are no better than a common fool.

In fact, probably worse. If you are armed.

I never said the NRA did not accept monies from outside sources....It is you who is no better than a common fool

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

???

Really I dont even know where to start with you...... Im assuming you live in Athens greece? Im going to go out on a limb here to try and see even slightly you skewed views

You use words that are seeming like you are on fox news. mass murders. Needs to be a little more detail on your idea behind using this word because to me its a media term. Im also sure you have more bombings in your country than we do here?? Am i correct? So is this the blind leading the retarded??

AR15...... have you shot one?? really with out googling know what it is and what it shoots? Are you considering it an "assault weapon"? and what is your definition of an assault weapon? Now im sure I will be corrected on this but I have still been getting too much conflicting info on if the AR was actually used or just found in the car. But still you say "armed to the teeth" I dont think a glock, a sig and a bushy are armed to the teeth.

Also what firearms do you own? And without showing me a BS interweb picture I want to see a picture of your safe. You can post a note on the top that says RCC rocks. I have my safe and know others on here do as well..... I just think half of this you are feeding us is BS propaganda by a person that is in a nation that has had more problems than a math book. I mean hell you have had 500+ immigrants admitted to hospitals in first half of this year regarding racist attacks. Ouch your city streets are safe. And hell of debt issues.... im sure next you will tell us how to fix our economy as well

The rebuttals have nothing to do with the amount slain it has to do with the comments you posted..... i replied then you would rebuttal to my reply.

There are so many areas to hit with you not really sure if i can cover them all.....

I think you need to take a read over here for a min or two and then come back..... let it soak in a bit and then post

America – Freedom vs Freedom | Eight Minutes of Fame

dont forget to read all the links.

Im sorry to the OP that this has strayed way off topic. If you feel this is moving in the direction that you didnt want it to go let me know and I will quit posting in here.

I will say since I prolly never did I agree that armed officers in schools is a good idea

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by War Pig

I get it now, this cbr guy is European, that explains alot.

Over 40,000 people get killed by automobiles every year in the US. Last year 348 people were killed by rifles, I would assume that a small percentage of that is from assault rifles. Please don't tell me that regulating rifles that holds more than 5 rounds is going to change anything. It would take my lifetime for the government to round up all the "dangerous" rifles in the US. Don't be stupid.

The biggest issue nowadays is the worldwide coverage of events like the one in CT. It's instant "stardom" for these losers that haven't done anything worthwhile in their lives. I would be willing to bet that without the in depth coverage that these shootings get, many of them wouldn't happen. These are sick people wanting to leave their mark on history. With the violence on TV, in movies, video games and the evening news it just seems like every day life to these people. They see that and say "nobody has ever listened to me before, if I do something crazy then everyone will know who I was".

Banning any firearms isn't going to change anything. The change will come from teaching our children the right things, getting the mentally ill help, and watching out for each other.

I'm also pretty sure that any trained police officer that sees a 20 year old person walking toward the front door of a school with an AR15 is going to make it tough for that person to do much damage in that school......

Not sure if you noticed but im right on board with you tim the whole way..... top to bottom on this post!!!!

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by dkf

Believe it or not some companies dictate the firearm that is carried and require it. A fellow on another sight was taking a job as either a security guard or armored truck driver (can't remember) and he was required to carry a revolver.

Not to sound totally stupid here but I swear they do this for an insurance reason. They can say it was protected by an armed guard..... they make it so the guard has the lower hand. This is all for their insurance to be covered..... so if there is an issue they know they can get the loss covered at a rate above what was actually taken. I know sounds totally stupid but its what I see for not actually wanting their property protected.

[crash]

I just want my children protected in a place thats supposed to be safe for them to learn.

I have ZERO problems with a "protector" at school as long as they are "properly" trained and by that I mean trained beyond operating a firearm-trained how to react properly if that moment ever happens.

[DUDE]

Originally Posted by JokersWild

Since you posted yours I will post mine. Im 35 years old. I think (and hopefully you can see it) that "Media" has expanded your sight as has with a lot of others. I feel that things that happen from a far are seen and heard world wide a lot more than they were years ago. Not that these things are happening more and more but that every thing that is happening now you can catch 5 mins after it has occurred when in years prior you would have not heard about it at all.

So the statement about exposure is a catch 22 in where said person is exposed to X violence but who is exposing it??? Media..... this is an area I really don't care for. I feel that media gears you to what they would like you to see..... not that someone did something positive but only show you the negative.

I am not going to disagree one bit. The media has a lot to do with it. Where do you think Adam Lanza got the idea on destroying his hard drive? The media, when they reported on all what the investigators found on James Holmes computer. Well that's my geuss anyway.

But it goes farther than the media, just look at the change in how the movies are now compared to back then. We also didn't have video games like we do now. I know to most people it's not a trigger to go out and do such a thing like mass shooters do. But a guy not wired right, it can be an inspiration and get the crazy thoughts going.

To tell you the truth. I learned my first act of violence done to another person on TV when I was a little sh!t. It was just the simple act of a fist fight. I got mad to the point I punched a kid out with a closed fist in third grade. I saw it on TV and learned that was a way to put somebody down. The rest of the kids freaked out, they never saw that before, so now I taught them. See how this goes?

We as a nation need to take a look and say yes, we are getting out of hand and need to change the way we think and the way we are entertained. I know it is impossible, the Jeanie is already out of the bottle.

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by DUDE

I am not going to disagree one bit. The media has a lot to do with it. Where do you think Adam Lanza got the idea on destroying his hard drive? The media, when they reported on all what the investigators found on James Holmes computer. Well that's my geuss anyway.

But it goes farther than the media, just look at the change in how the movies are now compared to back then. We also didn't have video games like we do now. I know to most people it's not a trigger to go out and do such a thing like mass shooters do. But a guy not wired right, it can be an inspiration and get the crazy thoughts going.

To tell you the truth. I learned my first act of violence done to another person on TV when I was a little sh!t. It was just the simple act of a fist fight. I got mad to the point I punched a kid out with a closed fist in third grade. I saw it on TV and learned that was a way to put somebody down. The rest of the kids freaked out, they never saw that before, so now I taught them. See how this goes?

We as a nation need to take a look and say yes, we are getting out of hand and need to change the way we think and the way we are entertained. I know it is impossible, the Jeanie is already out of the bottle.

Oh im there on point with you also that it is further than the media