NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

[Crimson Rock Crawler]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

The specific problem is that nutters are gaining access to guns and murdering a heart ripping amount of US citizens on a yearly basis.

Aw come on now you're not being fair to the nutters with access to matches...they have feelings too....

[Super]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

Some people are not responsible enough or don't have the required skills enough to drive, that's why there is a licensing system in place, rules and regulations on the roads and a system in place to ensure those rules of the road are met.

Just because there are rules in place doesn't mean everyone follows them. The reason most people die from car accidents is because someone wasn't responsible enough to follow the rules and laws. The same will happen with guns.

[cbr6fs]

Originally Posted by Super

cbr, why is it we can't have "ifs and buts" but you can. If we do this this will happen and if we didn't do this, this wouldn't have happened. What make you the expert?

I'm not in any position to state what is and is not allowed here.

I am able to select what i answer though and in my experience when talking about guns and restrictions it's usual that people divert the crux of the matter.

I personally feel that if i start answering ever "if" and "but" then we will end up going in circles.


I'm also in no way shape or form a expert.
I am English though and i do have first hand experience is strengthening gun laws.

So i do think i am in a position to say that YES stronger legislation does affect us as shooters BUT in the case of the UK it's really only basic common sense and it does not prevent us from enjoying our hobby.

And when i say enjoy i mean that we can shoot fairly safe in the knowledge that our hobby is not resulting in mass murders.

[Crimson Rock Crawler]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

I'm not in any position to state what is and is not allowed here.

........But you sure are an expert on American culture.

[cbr6fs]

Originally Posted by Crimson Rock Crawler

Oh sh!t.....if the crazies are now murdering people with fire we must act quickly to ban the sales of all matches and fire starting devices and all necessary chemicals and compounds used in the making of matches.....oh the humanity !!!!!

Struggling to see how you can find humour in this situation.

Might be a good start if you bother to read posts you comment on rather than make shit up

Originally Posted by Super

Just because there are rules in place doesn't mean everyone follows them. The reason most people die from car accidents is because someone wasn't responsible enough to follow the rules and laws. The same will happen with guns.

Agreed BUT as a responsible society is not our our duty to try bring about and implement rules that safeguard those weaker members of society (i.e, kids)?

It would also be a LOT worse on the roads if these rules were not in place, do you not agree?


As i say i'm not in favour of banning guns, i'm not some anti-gun nut that's jumping on the bandwagon.

I've been through tightening gun control in the UK and have first hand experience of it, i'm saying yes it's some times a pain in the arse jumping through hoops BUT if jumping through a couple of hoops and STILL being able to enjoy our hobby prevents another 20 kids getting massacred then to my mind that's a damn good compromise.

[cbr6fs]

Originally Posted by Crimson Rock Crawler

........But you sure are an expert on American culture.

Could please point out where i've stated or insinuated that i'm in any ways a expert on American culture?

We are grown ups having a grown up conversation here about a massacre of 20 kids, there is a time and place for trolling and humour, to me this is not either.

If you have something grown up to add please post and i will do my best to give an honest answer or opinion.

I will not respond to any more trolling though.

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by DUDE

First off, I am not here to defend cbr6fs and I am NOT anti gun. I have owned up to 13 "evil" guns, and have been shooting longer than most here I can bet.

I was watching CNN and they where showing schools which have an armed guard. The one guard they showed was carrying a revolver. Six rounds to get the job done.

So, lets say a crazy kid killer goes into a school, has a bullet proof vest on, and is carrying a AR 15 pistol under his coat. Lets add the perp has been seen before, like Adam Lanza, and nothing is thought about it for a few moments. Do you think there just might be the possibility the perp will off the guard and carry out his mission?

Lets say he does, then what?

Armed guards in schools, AWB bans, and what ever else they can come up with. ALL are just going to be feel good measures. America has been getting more violent with every new generation. The question is, what can we do about that?

Yes your hypothetical, could actually happen. The result? The exact same thing that happened in Newtown. Now, how many innocents died in my hypothetical?

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

It works, it's how we live in Europe.

Did the Europeans have do deal with 300,000,000 guns ALREADY in the public's hands?

How ignorant can you possibly be?

[Manning]

I still cannot comprehend how more laws will prevent the unlawful from doing unlawful things. I don't get it. Maybe I'm not smart enough.

[cbr6fs]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Did the Europeans have do deal with 300,000,000 guns ALREADY in the public's hands?

How ignorant can you possibly be?

So what's your alternative, keep let innocents be murdered in cold blood year in year out?

You have to start somewhere.

Originally Posted by Manning

I still cannot comprehend how more laws will prevent the unlawful from doing unlawful things. I don't get it. Maybe I'm not smart enough.

It's down to percentages.

The USA has around 88 guns per 100 people (2007 figures).
If only 1% are irresponsible gun owners that's still 9 guns per 100 people that are kept or used in a dangerous manor.

Add to that the amount of gun a thief can steal and it's easy to see it's not difficult to buy a illegal gun in the USA.

England has 6 guns per 100 people and guns are tightly regulated, so if 1% are irresponsible gun owners that's 0.6 guns out there.
In reality though it's extremely tough for a criminal to get access to a gun as any irresponsible gun owner in the UK is not likely to have a gun very long.

Of course there are exceptions.
But even these tend not to be mass murders as the guns used are often converted airgun or shotguns.


It's also worth mentioning that in the most recent massacres the guns were bought and stored to the legal requirements.
The guns for the school shooting were registered to that address and stored to within regulations (i.e, none) so the killer had access to legally owned guns.

Am i right in saying Virginia tech and the cinema shooters had legally registered guns as well?

[Crimson Rock Crawler]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

So again, having a organisation that makes money from the firearms industry offer an opinion on a solution exagerated by firearms is absolutely ridiculous. .

You might want to check the facts before you "make sh!t up" The facts are that our federal government funded a program after Columbine that is essentially the same thing that the NRA has suggested
Clinton Pledges Funds to Add Police to Schools - Los Angeles Times

.......so much for your knowledge of how America functions








.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

Could please point out where i've stated or insinuated that i'm in any ways a expert on American culture?



Might be a good start if you bother to read posts you comment on rather than make shit up






.

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

But then the NRA are only interested in selling more gun to make more money, so they're hardly a unbiased organisation are they.

And it's probably a good idea that you read up on things before
you bother to comment on rather than make sh!t up especially about the NRA.

A Brief History of NRA

Once again you claim to know so much about America and it culture !!

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

If your sitting in a comfortable job earning just under a million $ a year it's hardly surprising that you'll put your own interests before society.


.

Another false perception of American culture......not everyone has a comfortable job earning millions of $ a year

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

Who said anything about it taking money from firearms sales?



.

You did in an earlier post...

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

But then the NRA are only interested in selling more gun to make more money, so they're hardly a unbiased organisation are they.

Might be a good start if you bother to read posts you comment on rather than make sh!t up

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

It works, it's how we live in Europe.

That's all well and good, but if I wanted to live like a European, I'd move to Europe.

It's bad enough that Dear Leader has been pushing this European nightmare down our throats the last 4 years without having to hear you preach about how great it is.

I prefer my dangerous Liberty over your safe bondage.

[NoobCrawler]

Cbr6fs, I think what you're failing to see with the examples of fire, cars, bombs, and any other examples given, were that these are other options for crazy people to cause harm.

And, I know you're blaming the assault weapons in this case. Let's use another "what if", say he had 4 pistols and had an extra mag for each one. A pistol in each hand, that would be more shots than an AR. So while we ban assault weapons, we better ban pistols too.

I really don't have a solution for stopping people from shooting up places, I don't know if there is a right answer. But, just because ARs are not legal to buy wont stop them. They'll either buy them illegally or find a new weapon to use. A stick could be just as dangerous as a gun. Not to mention, if you laid them both on the ground, one is no more deadly than the other.

[Manning]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

It's down to percentages.

All it takes is one.

[JokersWild]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

....

I am going to agree with you on the fact there needs to be something put in place on the safes. Not that I agree with California laws by far but they do require that your safe be DOJ approved. This will not allow for the uses of POS safes that require small amounts to get into. But even tho we know if anyone really wants in any safe they will get in. Bank safes are a little larger and about as thick as my entire safe and they have been broke into in the past. Also requiring that they be bolted down would be another great measure.

I am however going to call BS on your statement "If you have something grown up to add please post and i will do my best to give an honest answer or opinion."

I have asked your opinion on many things throughout and you have not answered them. So we will start here......

What is an assault weapon? What firearms do you posses? What makes and AR an assault weapon?? is it due to its black? due to its a semi auto version of the M16? Is it the flash hider? the pistol grip? is it the delectable mag? the forward hand guard? or maybe the adjustable stock?

Not really sure where you feel you are being trolled or whatever but really am i being told some hypocritical statements by some english fellow who keeps trying to tell me "he has been through this process and is surely so much better now that its done"??? Yes and I believe he is full of it by far living in a dark room with the thoughts that nothing has happened since these laws. Well lets take a look.


First off (Im not sure but im sure someone will go search out this info for me) but we have been talking about crazy people with guns. This dublane incident that occurred in 1996 was held up by Thomas Hamilton an ex boy scout leader who legally owned his firearm. This strikes up your gun laws which is The Firearms Amendment of 1997 that completely banned handguns for private ownership....... but really does not avert them at all does it?? I will stop right here for a min to elaborate some on this.... so you tell me we shouldnt have assault weapons but your ban was on handguns??? I think your laws were going after "concealment" not assault weapons.

So as my research goes a bit further I see where you get the word "mass killings and mass murder" from....... your media.

So June 2010 in Cumbria carried out by another lone gunman, taxi driver Derrick Bird, who also was another licensed gun owner kills 12.

Apparently this did not stop, nor did it hinder and your shooter..... not an un licensed child..... but again licensed GUN OWNER.

So since 1997 you have actually had a 40% increase in gun crimes in the UK. In 2007 proved a decisive year since a wave of gang related incidents were committed by teenagers against other teenagers, with some high profile cases ending in fatalities. London, Manchester and Nottingham were the big 3. Your prime minister Gordon Brown chocked this all up to be a range of social problems which might be responsible including inner city poverty, family breakdown, and the absence of positive black role models in the UK. And now in October 2012 you are all still voting on laws and such to be put into place to fix these issues. Hardly fixed as your words seem to make it sound. Your laws now are basically making the sentences tougher for people violating these laws. No where in there is it limiting any type of firearm..... so to me sounds more of a scare tactic to make yall obey the laws so many are breaking...

all info and more can be found Gun Crime

I think the gun laws.... limitations and banning are not the big issue here i think values are. But these are my views due to the kids in my house know my these tools are.... what they are used for.... how much damage they inflict. They also know they cannot punch or hit another person until i tell them they can. They are not allowed to shoot guns all "gangster", no TV stunts or bump fire. These are tools not toys. They are "responsible" for the firearm and what it shoots all the way back to the safe. One mishap and privileges have been lost. These are all rules I have drilled into their little heads and on top of it they dont play COD or the like. And if they would wish to play said games they can join the Army and not play the virtual version.

[Rockpiledriver]

Answer the question troll. Did the Europeans have do deal with 300,000,000 guns ALREADY in the public's hands?

If you can not answer yes to this, your suggestion on applying what worked over there over here is not only null and void, it is misplaced as you are not a US citizen. I would consider my self a complete ass if I were to attempt to sway the opinions of the citizens of Greece on a similar topic.

This thread was about how WE as US citizens, discuss how to protect OUR kids in OUR schools under the circumstances WE are up against.

This isn't Greece, nor is this a thread about gun control. There is already one of those go troll it.

[dezfan]

I bet cr's ancestors where thrilled with the idea of armed Americans at least a few times in the last 100 years.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by cbr6fs

I agree.

My point though is that you have a opportunity to restrict the amount of suffering these people are able to achieve.

If ALL guns were banned then i agree there still would have likely to have been a murder that day.
I think it's likely he would have still killed his mother.

But with no guns i personally believe that the teaching staff would have been able to pacify him.
Obviously that's my interpretation, but still you can't argue that if he did have have guns there would have been no where near the amount of death and suffering?

He could rent a uhaul truck and buy some fertilizer and race fuel a blow up something with a lot of people in it. Don't forget OKC. No guns were used in that mass killing.

Anybody that thinks getting rid of a weapon that someone used to kill with is going to stop people from killing , needs to come down to the real world.

If the media would show how many times a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun, everyone would think different. The problem is some people listen to the media and their BS and just think that how it is and go with it. Dumbass people the media sells news, they are only going to tell you what sells. And if they can stir shit between 2 groups, they sell more.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Banning any guns ,will just take that trade from a controlled trade to a illegal uncontrolled trade. In turn more crime.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by Manning

I still cannot comprehend how more laws will prevent the unlawful from doing unlawful things. I don't get it. Maybe I'm not smart enough.

Your one of the smartest people I know and I'm with you. More laws

I thought that all the mass murders were done illegally.