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Old 12-24-2012, 06:26 PM   #161
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by joesbruiser View Post
Here is a big issue I have with this and to keep from screwing this thread up any more I will start a new thread in a bit.
What is this rifle.How does it fall into Tacticool or playing soldier. How many rounds does it hold what is the most comon use of it?
If AR style weapons are baned this goes with it and for what reason other than looks.
Looks like a R-15 with a 6 shot mag?

I'd say that's a military based assault rifle type gun, yep
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:30 PM   #162
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

guards in schools yes. the school my son is in has a state police officer there all day.

i would like to add that parents need to be more alert to there children. if a teacher says that your child needs help then maybe there is a reason. too many parents just blow it off and say not my kid. well i have news for them no ones kid or kids are perfect.
if you have a kid thats 20 years old, has no friends, sits and plays video games all day maybe there is a problem.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:45 PM   #163
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
Easy to push all this macho rhetoric....



It's even easier to offer up this moronic rhetoric.....

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Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
....a cop going to the home to check they have a gun safe and sufficient security = yep
.
. I guess in your warped mind you think our police forces have nothing better to do than knocking on every door of every licensed gun owner to see if they meet your standards of security

....or this gem of your moronic rhetoric.......

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Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
Homes are vetted by the police for security before ANY firearm license is issued
Guns are secured in a gun safe when at home and not being worked on
....oh yeah that will work......excuse me mister burglar....I need to get my gun out of my safe before you have the opportunity to harm me !!!
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:50 PM   #164
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver View Post
Sure he's entitled to his opinion but he's comparing apples to oranges. On top of that, he is easily one of, if not the most vocal person in a thread that he has derailed completely from it's original topic.

He is a troll.



So what, we're the apple and everyone else are the oranges?

Many other countries have, or are enduring some of the same struggles as we have/are. To disregard there thoughts simply because they hail from a different continent and culture is silly IMHO.


And speaking of off topic, we're both off it.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:50 PM   #165
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

Seeing people comment about gun safes and what not for safety, were the mothers guns locked up(I honestly don't know this answer)? If they were and he knew either where the keys were to the locks or to the combo of the safe all the safety precautions in the world wouldn't have prevented him stealing them...
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:02 PM   #166
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
Looks like a R-15 with a 6 shot mag?

I'd say that's a military based assault rifle type gun, yep
It is a r15 and it is chambered in a non military cartridge 450 bushmaster.It is designed for large game and comes with a 4 round mag.
Sounds like a hunting rifle to me not something that should fall into any thing to do with Assault rifles.
It is semi fire only so that takes it out of the assault rifle category by its self.It only holds 4 rounds well mine will hold 5 so that takes it out of the high capacity category.
Its plane and simple its a hunting rifle and that's it.But some idiots cant separate the differences so they say get rid of them all. Its no damn different than this which would never fall into a ban.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:15 PM   #167
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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well, to be honest, raise my taxes some more if it gets the job done. lord knows they raise them anyway and give the fawking money to bottom feeders that dont want to get a job, or have kids "just to have kids", just so they can get a check, or give it to the illegal immigrants or some shit.
Good. Then start going to your school district council meetings and have them raise your taxes to do it.

I'm tired of special interests, ranging from the military industrial complex to the NRA, from the health care industry to Wall Street, to states and municipalities and big government initiatives from housing to welfare wanting more, more, more. Stay out of my damn pocket.

We are fiscally ****ed. On a Federal level, the $0.40 cents being spent now funded by debt will be paid by your children, their children and their childrens' children if somehow we are able to make it that far. It will be paid either via higher taxes, or an absolute erosion in the purchasing power of the dollars they use.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:26 PM   #168
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by spankbomb View Post
Good. Then start going to your school district council meetings and have them raise your taxes to do it.

I'm tired of special interests, ranging from the military industrial complex to the NRA, from the health care industry to Wall Street, to states and municipalities and big government initiatives from housing to welfare wanting more, more, more. Stay out of my damn pocket.

We are fiscally ****ed. On a Federal level, the $0.40 cents being spent now funded by debt will be paid by your children, their children and their childrens' children if somehow we are able to make it that far. It will be paid either via higher taxes, or an absolute erosion in the purchasing power of the dollars they use.
yea man, i will be attending those meetings. dunno what the hell the rest of that rant was for, cap'n obvious. ya think our taxes are ever gonna go down? if so, you living in a fantasy world just like that other guy on here. i too would love to keep more of the money i earn, but the fact is, they will only take more.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:31 PM   #169
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by joesbruiser View Post
It is a r15 and it is chambered in a non military cartridge 450 bushmaster.It is designed for large game and comes with a 4 round mag.
Sounds like a hunting rifle to me not something that should fall into any thing to do with Assault rifles.
It is semi fire only so that takes it out of the assault rifle category by its self.It only holds 4 rounds well mine will hold 5 so that takes it out of the high capacity category.
Its plane and simple its a hunting rifle and that's it.But some idiots cant separate the differences so they say get rid of them all. Its no damn different than this which would never fall into a ban.
With the greatest of respect, (and i say that with my hand on my heart because you have put some good points forward and not the fanatical BS) i would offer that you should send Remington and email as they themselves are selling it's assault rifle points with much gusto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS2MmvzkSgQ

Kinda makes it tough for your point when the manufacturer themselves are obvious aiming for the tacticool market.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:35 PM   #170
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by RANOVRU View Post
I like to keep an open mind. I dont disregard anyones thoughts because they are from a different country anymore than I would because they are a different skin color. Or at least I try to. Often times there are people throughout the world that have experienced or are experiencing simular enviroments. I do not discredit their thoughts because of where theyre located geographically.


JMHO...
And you have failed to read that in his country where he said all has worked not only has not.... but was for bans not tighter gun laws. I think you should dis credit due to the fact he isnt giving helpful ideas, he is feeding you a line of BS. Im sure following the Europeans is going to work just about as well as if we would have turned the mayflower around and just headed back in the first place
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:36 PM   #171
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post

As ive said a few times now, if there are less legal guns around then it's harder for criminals to get hold of them by illegal means.

.

It only takes one illegal gun.

The only 100% foolproof way to solve the problem is getting rid of all the guns.

Every. Single. One.

And we all know that's not gonna happen.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:53 PM   #172
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
With the greatest of respect, (and i say that with my hand on my heart because you have put some good points forward and not the fanatical BS) i would offer that you should send Remington and email as they themselves are selling it's assault rifle points with much gusto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS2MmvzkSgQ

Kinda makes it tough for your point when the manufacturer themselves are obvious aiming for the tacticool market.
Why is it an assault rifle?? Affixed stock, low cap mag, no flash hider, at this point it dosent even make any assault rifle list..... other than its "ergonomics" is built off of an AR platform.


Quote:
I simply wanted to put forward an opinion of a enthusiastic shooter who went through gun tightening controls and didn't think it was as bad as some of the more fanatical posters have made out.

Ok here..... I swear its like you talk about things in your country one way but in actuality they are so much different. You say enthusiastic shooter?? Odd to me how in all of this you failed to tell us that your own law enforcement departments and Olympic shooters have to travel elsewhere to practice shooting. This to me is not helpful if im a "enthusiastic shooter".

Last edited by JokersWild; 12-24-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:02 PM   #173
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by Crimson Rock Crawler View Post
It's even easier to offer up this moronic rhetoric.....



. I guess in your warped mind you think our police forces have nothing better to do than knocking on every door of every licensed gun owner to see if they meet your standards of security

....or this gem of your moronic rhetoric.......



....oh yeah that will work......excuse me mister burglar....I need to get my gun out of my safe before you have the opportunity to harm me !!!
Nothing better than protecting it's citizens from mass murder.
I'd say that's as worth while a job as you can get personally, but then i am a responsible adult.

They could do it in their free time, you know the time they previously spent dealing with gun crime.

You don't have to be so frightened of burglars, i'm sure your Ninja pyjama's would scare them off, well until your parents got home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JokersWild View Post
And you have failed to read that in his country where he said all has worked not only has not.... but was for bans not tighter gun laws. I think you should dis credit due to the fact he isnt giving helpful ideas, he is feeding you a line of BS. Im sure following the Europeans is going to work just about as well as if we would have turned the mayflower around and just headed back in the first place
But in the specific case of mass murder it HAS worked.

We did have problems with gun crime after the hand guns ban, there are many reasons for this and this is not the platform for that discussion.
But the figures are now coming down.

In 2010/11 there were 58 firearm involved homicides.
That boils down to 0.03 illegal gun homicides per 100,000 people.
The USA has 3.2 illegal gun homicides per 100,000 people.
Figures here

I think that puts a strong case forward that tighter gun laws DO make a dramatic difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning View Post
It only takes one illegal gun.

The only 100% foolproof way to solve the problem is getting rid of all the guns.

Every. Single. One.

And we all know that's not gonna happen.

Even then people will still find a way to kill and hurt each other.

I don't see any way we can stop murders, it'd be a great ideal but in the real world it's just not possible.

I do honestly believe that by tightening gun laws, you guys CAN make a difference in these mass murders though.

Sure the committed will still find ways to cause mass suffering, but as i said earlier.
Why the hell should we make it easy for them to kill so many though?
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:11 PM   #174
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by JokersWild View Post
Why is it an assault rifle?? Affixed stock, low cap mag, no flash hider, at this point it dosent even make any assault rifle list..... other than its "ergonomics" is built off of an AR platform.
Did you watch the video?

Men in army fatigues storming beeches, LEO's storming buildings.
This from the manufacturer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JokersWild View Post
Ok here..... I swear its like you talk about things in your country one way but in actuality they are so much different. You say enthusiastic shooter?? Odd to me how in all of this you failed to tell us that your own law enforcement departments and Olympic shooters have to travel elsewhere to practice shooting. This to me is not helpful if im a "enthusiastic shooter".

Again, how exactly does any of that matter?

None of it is relevant to either armed guards being posted at school (the point of the thread), or how is best to prevent yet another mass murder on US soil (that the thread has sidelined to).

You can try and divert the real problem as much as you want, it's still not going to change the fact that this kind of tragedy WILL happen again unless SOMETHING is done.

A solution needs to be found and armed guards at schools in not a solution, it's a sticky plaster for what is proving to be a arterial cut.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:22 PM   #175
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
With the greatest of respect, (and i say that with my hand on my heart because you have put some good points forward and not the fanatical BS) i would offer that you should send Remington and email as they themselves are selling it's assault rifle points with much gusto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS2MmvzkSgQ

Kinda makes it tough for your point when the manufacturer themselves are obvious aiming for the tacticool market.
I did not see anything wrong with how they present there rifles.They say there durable,and very accurate.They did say they feed fast but hell i can cycle a revolver fast as hell so that's not saying much.
I wont argue that the action is based off of a military design but its not the same gun by any realm and especially not in a 45 caliber 5 shot configuration.
I look at hunting type guns very different than actual military firearms.
And I look at comp guns in a total different way .
One of my AR15's is built for the family to shoot 3 gun matches with. We use it for nothing else.It would not be much good for anything else.Not to mention with the compensator that is on it would render it useless in a battle situation due to several reasons.
And people who own rifles like mine are not the people that would pose any threat to society and know how to store and respect ther fireams.
I will say it agin if a ban occures it will punish people just off the looks of a certain firearm.
Kinda of like this pistol
It was designed purely for competitive pistol matches like USPSA and IPSC.In 40 cal. it can hold 14+1,17+1 or 22+1 depending on magazine used. This is not a pistol that would be owned by someone who is careless.No one is going to buy a 3000-4000 dollar pistol and just leave it laying around the house to be picked up by a idiot that may go shoot up a school. But with people saying limit round count in firearms knocks out yet another great firearm and makes it hard to be a competitive shooter if you do not already have a pre ban gun.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:23 PM   #176
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by Manning View Post
It only takes one illegal gun.

The only 100% foolproof way to solve the problem is getting rid of all the guns.

Every. Single. One.

And we all know that's not gonna happen.
drugs are illegal. there is a huge crackdown in every state on drugs yet somehow, some way there still out there able to be purchased. the gun isnt the problem at all. i dont care if its a .50 cal or a .22 the gun isnt the problem. education and identifying a problem comes first. hell you can still buy tommy gun reproductions and them dam things have a 100 round drum. .22 rifle 17 rounds, sks 30 rounds, ar's 30 rounds, 30.06 4 plus 1.
banning a weapon isnt going to keep the honest sane people any safer from the psychos in the world. point is if someone wants something bad enough there going to get it at any cost.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:29 PM   #177
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post
did you watch the video?

yes i did.... Twice. Did you listen to the video??

men in army fatigues storming beeches, leo's storming buildings.
This from the manufacturer.

the images were in regards to "they are based on a military born action, they follow in the footsteps of every successful hunting rifle today..... Blah blah lever gun yadda yadda"

they didnt say, hey this awesome hunting rifle will make you feel like a super awesome military soldier running through smoke screens! Wow not only do you fill in the blanks you make the blanks too






again, how exactly does any of that matter?

None of it is relevant to either armed guards being posted at school (the point of the thread), or how is best to prevent yet another mass murder on us soil (that the thread has sidelined to).

You can try and divert the real problem as much as you want, it's still not going to change the fact that this kind of tragedy will happen again unless something is done.

question have you been over on the chinese boards??? Cause they dont have firearms and "this kind of tragedy "did" happen and something was done.

a solution needs to be found and armed guards at schools in not a solution, it's a sticky plaster for what is proving to be a arterial cut.

and limiting your firearms to .22 rifles and double barrel shotguns didnt stop it in 2010. They will always find a way...... And its really irking me that you keep insinuating that yall over in the uk have this all figured out when you dont.
.........
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:32 PM   #178
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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drugs are illegal. there is a huge crackdown in every state on drugs yet somehow, some way there still out there able to be purchased. the gun isnt the problem at all. i dont care if its a .50 cal or a .22 the gun isnt the problem. education and identifying a problem comes first. hell you can still buy tommy gun reproductions and them dam things have a 100 round drum. .22 rifle 17 rounds, sks 30 rounds, ar's 30 rounds, 30.06 4 plus 1.
banning a weapon isnt going to keep the honest sane people any safer from the psychos in the world. point is if someone wants something bad enough there going to get it at any cost.

Well duh..... if you are hard up and have the cash you can get drugs and guns from the US gov. Hell ask Bill Clinton, his brother says "Billy has a nose like a vacuum cleaner"
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:43 PM   #179
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by joesbruiser View Post
I did not see anything wrong with how they present there rifles.They say there durable,and very accurate.They did say they feed fast but hell i can cycle a revolver fast as hell so that's not saying much.
I wont argue that the action is based off of a military design but its not the same gun by any realm and especially not in a 45 caliber 5 shot configuration.
I look at hunting type guns very different than actual military firearms.
And I look at comp guns in a total different way .
One of my AR15's is built for the family to shoot 3 gun matches with. We use it for nothing else.It would not be much good for anything else.Not to mention with the compensator that is on it would render it useless in a battle situation due to several reasons.
And people who own rifles like mine are not the people that would pose any threat to society and know how to store and respect ther fireams.
I will say it agin if a ban occures it will punish people just off the looks of a certain firearm.
Kinda of like this pistol
It was designed purely for competitive pistol matches like USPSA and IPSC.In 40 cal. it can hold 14+1,17+1 or 22+1 depending on magazine used. This is not a pistol that would be owned by someone who is careless.No one is going to buy a 3000-4000 dollar pistol and just leave it laying around the house to be picked up by a idiot that may go shoot up a school. But with people saying limit round count in firearms knocks out yet another great firearm and makes it hard to be a competitive shooter if you do not already have a pre ban gun.
Absolutely gorgeous gun

I honestly think that if everyone was as responsible as you the event from just over 1 week ago would not have occurred.

The problem is though, like with any walk of life not everyone is as responsible.

As an example there is a gal at our offices that has taken her driving test 12 times

Shes knows i do some track driving tuition so asked me to give her my honest opinion on her driving on the lunch break.
Now i've gone over 200mph on a motorbike been driven through a forest at 100mph in the rain with trees inches away and although i was scared i managed to stay cool.

This broad scared the crap out of me.
She had absolutely no spacial awareness, no idea on the controls and failed to put the handbrake on when we parked.
I rolled out the car as white as a ghost.

This broad should not be driving on public roads, she doesn't have the necessary skills nor responsibility (when i suggested that she put the handbrake on, she looked behind her and told me there was a car behind to stop her car).

Why should guns be any different?

Shouldn't people that want to own and operate guns show a reasonable amount of skill and responsibility?

In your case you have invested a lot of your time, money and energy into your hobby and it seems as though it's a hobby that's shared with your family, something that you should be congratulated on as that's a rare thing these days.

I cannot imagine for a second that a local cop requesting a look at your gun safe would put you off your hobby for even a fraction of a second.

Likewise if your AR15's required say another level of licensing i can't imagine that filling out a form would put you off either.

Both ball aches no doubt.
But the way i see it is, if those small inconveniences prevent a tragedy of these proportions occurring again in the future surely it's a compromise that's worth it?

What bad can come out of semi automatic AR15 type guns requiring gun safes and to be kept in the safe when not in use?

What bad can come from having a scale of licensing with more background checks being carried out the more deadly the gun?

It's not preventing honest decent folks like yourself from perusing your hobby, but if it makes it difficult even slightly more for these crazies to carry out mass murder is it not worth it?

It is to me and i honestly believe it's a better solution than armed guards at schools.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:09 PM   #180
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Default Re: NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

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Originally Posted by JokersWild View Post
yes i did.... Twice. Did you listen to the video??
I did and my interpretation was that they heavily sold the armed forces influence on the design.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JokersWild View Post
the images were in regards to "they are based on a military born action, they follow in the footsteps of every successful hunting rifle today..... Blah blah lever gun yadda yadda"

they didnt say, hey this awesome hunting rifle will make you feel like a super awesome military soldier running through smoke screens! Wow not only do you fill in the blanks you make the blanks too
The imagery is strongly direct that way though.


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Originally Posted by JokersWild View Post
question have you been over on the chinese boards??? Cause they dont have firearms and "this kind of tragedy "did" happen and something was done.
Do you mean the recent knife attack?
23 people stabbed, all survived.

In the 7 attacks since 2010 only 2 attacks involved a fatality.

In total 97 kids and adults were attacked since 2010, 17 died as a result.

An absolute disgusting tragedy, but tell me in all honesty if those attackers had access to AR15's do you believe so many would have gone home that night?

I'm not arguing that bad people are out there, even as a staunch atheist i still find the only real way to describe these people is pure evil.

Someone somewhere WILL attack a school again, someone somewhere will attempt a mass murder event again.
Absolutely no doubt about that.

My entire point is, shouldn't we work towards restricting the access these evil people have to weapons that make mass murder easy for them?

If we don't have the technology or know how to detect this evil before it occurs then as a morally responsible society we HAVE to do something.
What else can we do that's as effective at preventing these evil doers as making it as difficult as possible for them to get their hands on effective killing equipment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JokersWild View Post
and limiting your firearms to .22 rifles and double barrel shotguns didnt stop it in 2010. They will always find a way...... And its really irking me that you keep insinuating that yall over in the uk have this all figured out when you dont.
I've never once said the UK or myself have anything figured out.

In fact i've said several times that you can't stop people killing each other, i don't know how much clearer i can make that point.


You are the one that has bought up the UK a lot more than i have.
There is no comparison, the entire mentality, mindset and media are entirely different.

You an't argue with the facts


0.03 illegal gun homicides per 100,000 people in the UK
3.2 illegal gun homicides per 100,000 people in the USA
Figures here

You are well over 100 times more likely to get murdered by a gun in the USA than you are in the UK.

AGAIN i'm not holding that up as an example to follow, the laws there are too strict IMO, but still it's a start.
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