NRA reccomends armed officers in all schools

[rik]

Just read this story and am wondering what your thoughts are. As a father of a 4 yr old girl and a 6 week old boy, I think this is a good idea. Please, let's not turn this into a bickering match.

[boisetrucker]

I think it would work. Heck my wife and I were talking about home schooling our daughter.

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[joesbruiser]

There is a armed officer in the schools in our area. I like it that way.

[GySgt Hartman]

Why not? Probably should have been there sooner...

They have been at all airports for over a decade and probably at all Disney parks for just as long.

[viper6171]

agree completely this should have been done a long time ago .

[spankbomb]

I asked a friend about how much it costs Austin Police Department to train each cadet and about how much they pay for each police car.

I took a look at Elgin ISD, in Elgin, TX, and in 2011-2012, the expenditures for uniformed security for the FY was $27,075. I look at Elgin ISD's proposed 2012-13 budget, and it looks like their total requested security budget is $30,000. It doesn't appear this is full time staff, instead off-duty LEOs.


So, that being said, let's work some numbers based on the makeup of this district, which has 4000 students and seven schools. We'll need a total of 14 cadets to staff the entire district, and the first year total costs including training will be $1,120,000. We also need to at least one fully equipped car per campus, for another $280,000. We'll need at least one executive level officer, which we should hopefully get for $65,000. Hopefully he won't request a car, but if he does, I'm sure it will be an SUV so let's call it $60,000. The district will also need radios and office equipment such as desks and computers, hopefully they will not need a dispatcher. Let's hope to get out for under $15K. Total year one expenditures, assuming the cars do not need any maintenance (or gas) the first year, and assuming gear and uniforms are included in the training costs, is $1,540,000 for this 4A school district outside of Austin.


In year two, we won't have to buy new cars (hopefully), but we will have to maintain them. Let's say to the tune of of $1K, per car for the fiscal year. Total of $8000, don't forget the chief's SUV. We'll assume that these cadets have all stuck, with no one washing out or leaving for high profile jobs such as Bastrop County Sherriff's office or Giddings PD. But, let's assume pay & benes each total around $50K, total of $700,000. I'm sure the exec will want a bump for keeping everyone safe the first year, so we'll bump him to $70,000.So, although we did some nut cutting the 2nd year, we're still spending $778,000 in labor alone.


Where will the funding come from? Elgin ISD is funded by federal, state and local revenues. For 2011-12, local revenue was $10,967,107. State revenues were $18,422,953. Money from the Feds was $1,378,871. Now, let's keep in mind that only about $0.60 of every federal dollar expenditure (which the school district records as revenue) is actually funded tax revenue. The other $0.40 is debt.

Start extrapolating those numbers above on a national level. Math is a funny thing. It isn't emotional, it isn't political. It just is. So, when folks like Wayne LaPierre want Congress to expand federally funded programs to put armed guards at every school (there may be programs already in place, check here , $125K per officer), likewise, I want to know how it is going to be funded. Right now, the NRA's proposal coupled with the reality (not left, right, or other, just the real math of it all) of the U.S.'s fiscal mess, is not feasible.

[DRV KRAWLER]

I agree that this is a Good idea. If we have a Armed officers in Banks protecting money. Then by all means please protect the most valuble thing I have in my life. We pay a lot of taxes that should pay for this already.

[Rockpiledriver]

Didn't the NRA offer to fund their program themselves and offer it for free to any school district interested? I only watched it live this morning so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[C*H*U*D]

Neil Gardner

[BJoe]

Originally Posted by spankbomb

I asked a friend about how much it costs Austin Police Department to train each cadet and about how much they pay for each police car.

I took a look at Elgin ISD, in Elgin, TX, and in 2011-2012, the expenditures for uniformed security for the FY was $27,075. I look at Elgin ISD's proposed 2012-13 budget, and it looks like their total requested security budget is $30,000. It doesn't appear this is full time staff, instead off-duty LEOs.


So, that being said, let's work some numbers based on the makeup of this district, which has 4000 students and seven schools. We'll need a total of 14 cadets to staff the entire district, and the first year total costs including training will be $1,120,000. We also need to at least one fully equipped car per campus, for another $280,000. We'll need at least one executive level officer, which we should hopefully get for $65,000. Hopefully he won't request a car, but if he does, I'm sure it will be an SUV so let's call it $60,000. The district will also need radios and office equipment such as desks and computers, hopefully they will not need a dispatcher. Let's hope to get out for under $15K. Total year one expenditures, assuming the cars do not need any maintenance (or gas) the first year, and assuming gear and uniforms are included in the training costs, is $1,540,000 for this 4A school district outside of Austin.


In year two, we won't have to buy new cars (hopefully), but we will have to maintain them. Let's say to the tune of of $1K, per car for the fiscal year. Total of $8000, don't forget the chief's SUV. We'll assume that these cadets have all stuck, with no one washing out or leaving for high profile jobs such as Bastrop County Sherriff's office or Giddings PD. But, let's assume pay & benes each total around $50K, total of $700,000. I'm sure the exec will want a bump for keeping everyone safe the first year, so we'll bump him to $70,000.So, although we did some nut cutting the 2nd year, we're still spending $778,000 in labor alone.


Where will the funding come from? Elgin ISD is funded by federal, state and local revenues. For 2011-12, local revenue was $10,967,107. State revenues were $18,422,953. Money from the Feds was $1,378,871. Now, let's keep in mind that only about $0.60 of every federal dollar expenditure (which the school district records as revenue) is actually funded tax revenue. The other $0.40 is debt.

Start extrapolating those numbers above on a national level. Math is a funny thing. It isn't emotional, it isn't political. It just is. So, when folks like Wayne LaPierre want Congress to expand federally funded programs to put armed guards at every school (there may be programs already in place, check here , $125K per officer), likewise, I want to know how it is going to be funded. Right now, the NRA's proposal coupled with the reality (not left, right, or other, just the real math of it all) of the U.S.'s fiscal mess, is not feasible.

While I don't have children of my own, nor am I an uncle (ie, I have no skin in the game), I'd still prefer that over the alternatives. To me, it's one of those "worth the expense" things, arming everyone under the sun, especially if it's against their will can be a problem, plus what happens if s problem child gets access to said gun or a teacher with temper issues has one (we had one such teacher at my hs). Then there's the storing of said guns when not at school, do the teachers take them home and hpe they don't become the target of a home invasion by those looking for said guns, or do the get locked ip at school to be one stop shopping for said thieves. At least with trained security or cops, you should have people who are better suited to dealing with last friday's situation and is free to roam the halls looking for trouble all day long. I'd even consider putting them in schools with family so they have some.skin in the game themselves.

[spookyseven]

How many people have looked at this situation through the perspective as an aggressor? If you felt the need to harm a group of people you would weigh your odds of success. Therefore if you wanted to attack a group of people that you knew where unarmed you would feel superior while carying say a 9mm or rifle. So change the stakes where you want to attack a group of people and you know there is one armed guard. Once again you weigh your odds of success and this time you decide to cary superior firepower. Does having one armed guard in a group of people start an arms race? The third scenario is you want to attack a group of people and you don't know who is armed and what they have. Do your chances start to look a little more grim at this point?

I do understand that most people wanting to attack a group of people are usually not in sound mind and may not weigh thier odds but I feel they are questions that need to be answered.

I personally have grown up in an area where not only guns, gun safety and respect for guns are a part of the culture. The highschool I went to had an armed police officer an I never once felt uneasy from it.

[DRV KRAWLER]

Any thoughts on using the National Guard ? Instead of a long drawn out process of training cadets and also getting them clearence. With the National Guard they could go through clearence checks right now and be placed quickly. This is only a suggestion to reduce the economic impact that the Government will try to stick on the tax payer as usual.

[Rockpiledriver]

Lets take the extreme left scenario.

Say all guns are banned and people are forced to turn in the 300 million registered firearms. (Like that would ever happen without far more bloodshed.) How many unregistered guns are out there?

Now we have unstable people who already have access illegally and everyone else unarmed. Easy targets.

Do you think at that point government would be forced to have armed guards at every school? I do.

The fact is we will never disarm America. We need to find the most viable option to protect our kids.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by DRV KRAWLER

Any thoughts on using the National Guard ? Instead of a long drawn out process of training cadets and also getting them clearence. With the National Guard they could go through clearence checks right now and be placed quickly. This is only a suggestion to reduce the economic impact that the Government will try to stick on the tax payer as usual.

I would have to disagree with using any type of military for a police role. The military is not a police force, and should not be used as one.

[nascarkeith]

In Alabama we have SRO's or school resource officers in our schools. It makes me feel better when I go to work each day. He and I have become friends and are actually going to the shooting range tomorrow. The kids have gotten to know him and often tip him off to problems. This allows him to be proactive and stop a lot of mess.

[redneck crawler]

What about vets that cant find a job?

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[spankbomb]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Lets take the extreme left scenario.

Say all guns are banned and people are forced to turn in the 300 million registered firearms. (Like that would ever happen without far more bloodshed.)

Hasn't the arguement that law-abiding citizens who are gun owners don't commit crimes and kill people?

Now, assuming that a weapons ban is passed legally, or, the 2nd Amendment itself is changed by Constitutional amendment, how would that cause bloodshed?

Now, back to the math of it all. Using 2010 census numbers, there were 74.2M people in the U.S. under the age of 18. Let's say, just for the sake of arguement, all of those are in school, day care, whatever.

The U.S. would be looking at an annual expenditure of $28,567,000,000 to get a Federally funded project like this started, with an estimated $14 billion to keep it going annually.

Guess when we're already blowing $1.6T more than we're taking in annually, what's another $14-28 billion really matter.

Carry on.

Later,
Jon D.

[Rockpiledriver]

Or what about the retired local cop whose grand kids are going to the school?

Lots of options, but unfortunately, I think this will fall on deaf ears.

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by spankbomb

Now, assuming that a weapons ban is passed legally, or, the 2nd Amendment itself is changed by Constitutional amendment, how would that cause bloodshed?

You're from Texas? Do you talk to your neighbors?

[Duuuuuuuude]

My sons school has an armed Sheriffs deputy there during school hours, and he or she is out front when the kids are dropped of, and in the same place when they are let out.

Freaky at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly. Its nice to know they are there.

I'm all for it. I would even be for armed teachers IF they chose to do so and IF they receive the proper weapons training/certification and IF they maintain all that...something similar or equal to what law enforcement gets. They can carry concealed and nobody would have cause to freak out over it.