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Old 12-17-2013, 04:08 PM   #61
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

I posted this in the other thread but...

Why do we need more classes? I don't understand why we don't have levels in the same class? A beginner and a pro class. The more classes you add will only be more classes for the top guys to dominate. A good driver is a good driver no matter what rig he is driving or how much it costs. I always see people complaining on here about not being able to be competitive because they can't afford to build a $2000 rig, when i would guess its 85% driver and 15% rig.

We need a beginner class for sport and pro. That way people can move up as they get better and still drive the same courses as the top guys. If the courses are built accordingly with alternate gates for the really hard ones drivers will get the gratification of finishing and have a chance of placing in a descent position.

Almost every form of motorsport or type of racing does this! why aren't we? It is a proven system.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:40 PM   #62
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

Well said Stubs.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:51 PM   #63
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by stubs179 View Post
I posted this in the other thread but...

Why do we need more classes? I don't understand why we don't have levels in the same class? A beginner and a pro class. The more classes you add will only be more classes for the top guys to dominate. A good driver is a good driver no matter what rig he is driving or how much it costs. I always see people complaining on here about not being able to be competitive because they can't afford to build a $2000 rig, when i would guess its 85% driver and 15% rig.

We need a beginner class for sport and pro. That way people can move up as they get better and still drive the same courses as the top guys. If the courses are built accordingly with alternate gates for the really hard ones drivers will get the gratification of finishing and have a chance of placing in a descent position.

Almost every form of motorsport or type of racing does this! why aren't we? It is a proven system.
You could have qualifying courses throughout the morning and have an A-main and a B-main after lunch.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:17 PM   #64
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by stubs179 View Post
...That way people can move up as they get better and still drive the same courses as the top guys...
This is how we did it in Mountain Bike racing. Many of the race courses had common sections for Pro/Expert, Sporty and beginner. At a certain point the Pro/Experts broke off to do their big loop, then the Sportsman class broke off and the beginners finished the short course. The same can be done with gates. Most of the course can be set up for everyone, but certain sections can have multiple gates around an obstacle.

Just thinking out loud...
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:21 PM   #65
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

RC offroad racing is doing quite well. And it hasn't changed in about 2 decades. Still a bunch cars going fast on the track at the same time, catching big air off of jumps, and crashing spectacularly. One can buy a top level rolling chassis kit at any hobby shop in the country or online for ~$250. And making a car go fast and win takes skill on the driver's part, and it's fairly easy for a newbie to see it takes skill.

RC comp crawling is slow, there's no exciting jumping to speak of, there's no crashing to speak of, and it's done one at a time. Zzzzzzzzz.. Yeah they do some amazing things with a good driver at the wheel. But You cant buy a comp worthy roller anywhere (that a newbie can find, not sure I could either) And making a truck get through the gates and win takes skill on the driver's part. Far more than people realize, from a newbies perspective you just drive between the gates. Super easy, right?

And people wonder why it's hard to get the newcomers interest.......

Do I have a solution, nope. Do I like real comp crawling? Yep. Do I like the scaler stuff, yep.

I hate to say it, but the typical dude that says "comp crawling sucks", but wants to have their own rules for their own scaler comp formula probably can't drive or set up a rig optimally for competition, so that person is going to get their hienie handed to them at the comp where they made up the rules. And unfortunately, rules are very necessary to keep somebody from dominating that knows what they are doing that has some money to spend and knows what to spend it on.


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Old 12-17-2013, 06:23 PM   #66
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
Well said Stubs.
Thank you

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Originally Posted by Calderwood View Post
You could have qualifying courses throughout the morning and have an A-main and a B-main after lunch.

I was thinking more on a local level where everyone has a pretty good idea where everyone else stands. I come from desert racing motorcycles and it's done like this. Everyone races on the same course at the same time but your only scored against the other people in your class. It's simple and efficient.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:29 AM   #67
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

I think the people that whine and complain about having to complete against a high dollar trucks would still find something to complain about something in an open class.

I propose a different approach. What is the main reason people spend so much money on comp crawlers? To reduce weight.

To me it seems like if you set a minimum weight limit on the entry level class, you would have less people entering that class with highly modified trucks and it would be geared to rtr trucks.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:33 AM   #68
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by spookyseven View Post
I think the people that whine and complain about having to complete against a high dollar trucks would still find something to complain about something in an open class.

I propose a different approach. What is the main reason people spend so much money on comp crawlers? To reduce weight.

To me it seems like if you set a minimum weight limit on the entry level class, you would have less people entering that class with highly modified trucks and it would be geared to rtr trucks.
But even with a minimum weight people are still going to get all the lightest high dollar parts and then load up with knuckle weight since that will reduce the center of gravity.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:56 AM   #69
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by Calderwood View Post
But even with a minimum weight people are still going to get all the lightest high dollar parts and then load up with knuckle weight since that will reduce the center of gravity.
I agree with this point. The same could be done with a light chassis and heavy wheels\wheel weight. The rule would take some fine tuning, but I think it could encourage a class geared towards beginners.
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:51 AM   #70
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

First off, I want to commend Ted on bringing up this topic and bringing at least some sort of a solution to it. It's pretty evident that a lot of ppl know this is an issue by how many detailed responses I've read through that have been posted in such a short amount of time.

Secondly, my personal stance on comp crawling is that I absolutely love it. Everything about it just totally hits the nail on the head for what I was looking for in RC. I've did the racing and bashing thing with go fasts and to me, that got old. I found reason in comp crawling, that reason for me was strategy. I consider comping "rolling chess".

Now maybe some of you can agree with me and maybe some do not on why comping is so great, but one thing I do know is that ppl that really love it, aren't going anywhere. So the question still remains, how the hell do we increase attendence and get new guys hooked on this wonderful hobby?

Let's try breaking this down from facts ( at least my idea of facts)
- guys that start crawling and stick, have been in the RC hobby in one way or another for a long time.
- guys hate to lose or get there butts kicked over and over
-new ppl to RC only buy rtr trucks
- people only participate in what they consider fun
- RCC needs more exposure (ie. RCC stickers in every Axial box that leaves the factory)
- new, or less skilled drivers should not directly compete against highly skilled experienced drivers.

I think I want to stop there and let you guys help me with rest of this list. I would hope with enough facts compiled, we can come to the best possible solution to dwindling attendence.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:39 PM   #71
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepdawg23wm View Post
Let's try breaking this down from facts ( at least my idea of facts)
- guys that start crawling and stick, have been in the RC hobby in one way or another for a long time.
- guys hate to lose or get there butts kicked over and over
-new ppl to RC only buy rtr trucks
- people only participate in what they consider fun
- RCC needs more exposure (ie. RCC stickers in every Axial box that leaves the factory)
- new, or less skilled drivers should not directly compete against highly skilled experienced drivers.
I agree with some but not everything you have said:


- guys that start crawling and stick, have been in the RC hobby in one way or another for a long time.

Not really true. I've had RC trucks and planes before, but was never serious about either. Crawling is what got me interested.


-new ppl to RC only buy rtr trucks

At a very high point in crawling, people were building their trucks from scratch. This is why I also don't agree that the discontinuation of the XR-10 is responsible.



I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I feel when Comp started losing it's scale appeal, many drivers looked elsewhere. Scalers are very popular for a reason...people like trucks.

What really fired me up before I got into crawling was all the cool trucks I would see in pictures. They were less like toys, and more like miniature trucks. That quickly changed, and the group split...Comp and Scale. Ask yourself which is more popular, and you have your answer as to why the other is declining in interest.
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:03 PM   #72
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

Lots of great comments and ideas in this thread. I'd just like to add something for thought/discussion. There were a few thoughts that came close to suggesting a 'spec' class, which is still something I think could draw in new people. Within this discussion, a few people wrote that they felt that a spec class wouldn't solve anything because a seasoned drive would still out drive a newbie. While I agree with this thought, it could also help the newbie develop some needed driving technique since everyone is running the same course with the same vehicles.

Drivers that need improved skills will watch the better drivers, learning why a particular line was chosen over another, or how some simple pre-loading of a shock spring helps the rig become more stable. This eliminates the entire argument of someone having an 'advantage' with a more capable rig.
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:50 PM   #73
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by C*H*U*D View Post
Scalers are very popular for a reason...people like trucks.

Right on the money - I know its what lead me to get one.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:40 PM   #74
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

After thinking about this for a day, I'm coming around to this idea of a new class.

SORRCA seems to put too much emphasis on scale detail, might as well build static models (not hating, I used to build static models, and still have a closet full of them). USRCCA has been influenced way too much by the garage machinists and hardcore comp guys. Now the average newbie thinks you HAVE to have one off custom stuff that costs $1500 to compete, and when youre done with the rig it doesn't look like anything real. So now the big guys (Axial, HPI) don't want to play the comp game. I love comping.

I really really like the idea of a minimum weight. Nearly all the money in a modern comp rig goes to crazy light parts. If the min weight was something that it took a little effort to get to, but not crazy light like the upper 4 lb range or 5 lbs even, that would greatly reduce the incentive to spend zillion $$ on silly light parts. Yes some people will still go nuts with light parts, but a min weight is a min weight.

And I'm coming around to the idea of a "body" class or classes. Let's go back a few years and put bodies back on the trucks so they look like something.

Maybe a SCX10 chassis class with a max tire diameter (4.5" maybe?), and a Wraith/Ridgecrest/Deadbolt class with big tires. Maybe have a roll cage requirement, since all SCX's have them, and the Wraith and Deadbolt have cages.

I'm liking it.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:48 PM   #75
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by Manning View Post
After thinking about this for a day, I'm coming around to this idea of a new class.

SORRCA seems to put too much emphasis on scale detail, might as well build static models (not hating, I used to build static models, and still have a closet full of them). USRCCA has been influenced way too much by the garage machinists and hardcore comp guys. Now the average newbie thinks you HAVE to have one off custom stuff that costs $1500 to compete, and when youre done with the rig it doesn't look like anything real. So now the big guys (Axial, HPI) don't want to play the comp game. I love comping.

I really really like the idea of a minimum weight. Nearly all the money in a modern comp rig goes to crazy light parts. If the min weight was something that it took a little effort to get to, but not crazy light like the upper 4 lb range or 5 lbs even, that would greatly reduce the incentive to spend zillion $$ on silly light parts. Yes some people will still go nuts with light parts, but a min weight is a min weight.

And I'm coming around to the idea of a "body" class or classes. Let's go back a few years and put bodies back on the trucks so they look like something.

Maybe a SCX10 chassis class with a max tire diameter (4.5" maybe?), and a Wraith/Ridgecrest/Deadbolt class with big tires. Maybe have a roll cage requirement, since all SCX's have them, and the Wraith and Deadbolt have cages.

I'm liking it.


Now your getting it.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:56 PM   #76
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by C*H*U*D View Post
Scalers are very popular for a reason...people like trucks.
.
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Originally Posted by sgtbham View Post
Right on the money - I know its what lead me to get one.
Scalers are popular because they take no skill to drive.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:59 PM   #77
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

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Originally Posted by stubs179 View Post
Scalers are popular because they take no skill to drive.


Are you retarded?
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:00 PM   #78
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

You guys all have really good ideas (most of them) in my opinion. If you were to go back 5 years and watch some old videos, the pro comp events looked a lot like scale events. They looked like trucks (or metal tubers), they drove slowly, and crawled obstacles on rock that was not perfectly groomed.

I think the speed aspect of modern comp crawling has turned away more people than the look of the trucks. People play with their crawlers, they feel like they want more (to compete), then they show up and cant finish a course because we don't crawl anymore. We race up rocks.

I think a mostly box stock class is a great idea. Just a few truck rules, comp courses with generous time limits, and a different scoring system like was mentioned. Anyone could give it a go... as long as they didn't bring a gun to a knife fight. That may mean some veterans with totally pimped out Wraiths or whatever would have to get them in spec to run... but so be it.

We have been getting a few more people at our local comps lately that mostly come for the scale comp course. That's the point.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:02 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubs179 View Post
Scalers are popular because they take no skill to drive.
Just add 60+ scale points and forget skill! Who needs it with a offset like that...
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:09 PM   #80
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Default Re: Who is up for a new comp class

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubs179 View Post
Scalers are popular because they take no skill to drive.

Yes, I saw a wraith online and thought "I bet that takes no skill to drive" so I got into the hobby.....had nothing to do it looking awesome.
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