no thread on the shooting in VA this morning?

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

I don't see how it's any less rational than trying to "safety bubble" every person in the country.

I'm not advocating to put everyone in a bubble. It is hugely unrealistic, and you are assuming too much about my motivation.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

My idea actually makes a lot more sense, an actual active response to the action rather than trying to prevent the inevitable action in the first place.

All you've done is suggest killing all the people that commit serious crimes. It doesn't work. Never has.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Trying to take away avenues from people who are going to do wrong things anyway is not only futile but a waste of time. It's the PEOPLE that need to be dealt with.

Asking gun owners to hold themselves to a higher standard and be more responsible is not futile (unless they really just don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves). Locking your gun away in a cabinet when you are not home will not stop a thief from breaking in, but it will stop the thief from leaving with it, and that will be one less illegally obtained gun floating around in the world that might end up in the hands of a killer.

If you can present a solid argument as to why a person should leave an unsecured weapon in their home when they are not there to use it, I would absolutely love to hear it.

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

I don't see how it's any less rational than trying to "safety bubble" every person in the country.

My idea actually makes a lot more sense, an actual active response to the action rather than trying to prevent the inevitable action in the first place.

Trying to take away avenues from people who are going to do wrong things anyway is not only futile but a waste of time. It's the PEOPLE that need to be dealt with.


I love the 'minority report' mindset but it's not a realistic one. The most effective way to deter is by repercussions for actions. The fact that most aren't willing to look down that rabbit hole is a big part of what's wrong with society today.

In some countries they remove your hand if you're caught stealing, I'm just saying lets take it a step further and remove them from the planet. And that's not a new idea either.

There's definitely days, most days, where I have this same feeling. My friend & I are even for public executions. It would certainly be a detrerent of some would be criminals.

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I'm not advocating to put everyone in a bubble. It is hugely unrealistic, and you are assuming too much about my motivation.



All you've done is suggest killing all the people that commit serious crimes. It doesn't work. Never has.



Asking gun owners to hold themselves to a higher standard and be more responsible is not futile (unless they really just don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves). Locking your gun away in a cabinet when you are not home will not stop a thief from breaking in, but it will stop the thief from leaving with it, and that will be one less illegally obtained gun floating around in the world that might end up in the hands of a killer.

If you can present a solid argument as to why a person should leave an unsecured weapon in their home when they are not there to use it, I would absolutely love to hear it.

You're just plain wrong on so many levels.

Killing people has never been a deterrent in the past? Ha! The fact that so many states have abolished the death penalty and a quick look at the crime rate proves that is not true.

You just don't get that the avenues in which people do wrong things aren't the problem, the people are the problem. How is it again that someone who breaks into your home will not have any interest in the locked box or cabinet that you've put your gun in? They'll rummage through all your house but undoubtedly have no interest in the things that are locked? Seems to me like those are the things that they'd be MOST interested in. Or do all B&E's simply open the front door, look for a gun within arms reach and leave if there's not one? You're in la la land.

How about if my vehicle is locked up in public somewhere and someone bashes the window, opens the door, hot wires it and runs through a crowd of people. Am I to be held responsible for that? Maybe we should make containers for parking to lock up peoples already locked vehicles in.


It's the people who are to blame, not the means.

[NoobCrawler]

Damn, is seems like that guy wasn't done. He had 3 different license plates, a glock(could've been the one used), 6 mags. Sunglasses, a wig, black hat, and a shawl.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

You're just plain wrong on so many levels.

Killing people has never been a deterrent in the past? Ha! The fact that so many states have abolished the death penalty and a quick look at the crime rate proves that is not true.

Public executions did have a tendency to work, I'll grant you that. But todays system of locking people away until they die does not, or at least not very well (out of sight, out of mind). And there are still plenty of people not on death row for violent crimes, even though they'll be there for a long, long time.

Do we really want to digress to public executions? That is a pretty big step backwards...

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

How is it again that someone who breaks into your home will not have any interest in the locked box or cabinet that you've put your gun in? They'll rummage through all your house but undoubtedly have no interest in the things that are locked? Seems to me like those are the things that they'd be MOST interested in. Or do all B&E's simply open the front door, look for a gun within arms reach and leave if there's not one? You're in la la land.

Lock boxes and cabinets are relatively simple to bolt to the floor or wall, making them virtually immovable. It's really not that hard.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

How about if my vehicle is locked up in public somewhere and someone bashes the window, opens the door, hot wires it and runs through a crowd of people. Am I to be held responsible for that? Maybe we should make containers for parking to lock up peoples already locked vehicles in.

If you can show me where that particular incident is as widespread as mass shootings, I'll concede the point.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

It's the people who are to blame, not the means.

Of course it's the people, it's always been the people, and until firearms become sentient and self aware, it'll continue to be the people.

But curbing this behavior cannot nor will not be done in one easy step. It's going to take a large scale, multi-point effort on all fronts. All that I'm suggesting at this point in time is that legal gun owners examine their own behavior. Not necessarily because they are part of the problem, but because they might have the capability to actually help the situation.

Really it comes down to this: should someone break into your home, do you want them finding and taking your firearms?

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Public executions did have a tendency to work, I'll grant you that. But todays system of locking people away until they die does not, or at least not very well (out of sight, out of mind). And there are still plenty of people not on death row for violent crimes, even though they'll be there for a long, long time.

Do we really want to digress to public executions? That is a pretty big step backwards...



Lock boxes and cabinets are relatively simple to bolt to the floor or wall, making them virtually immovable. It's really not that hard.



If you can show me where that particular incident is as widespread as mass shootings, I'll concede the point.



Of course it's the people, it's always been the people, and until firearms become sentient and self aware, it'll continue to be the people.

But curbing this behavior cannot nor will not be done in one easy step. It's going to take a large scale, multi-point effort on all fronts. All that I'm suggesting at this point in time is that legal gun owners examine their own behavior. Not necessarily because they are part of the problem, but because they might have the capability to actually help the situation.

Really it comes down to this: should someone break into your home, do you want them finding and taking your firearms?

I don't think I've ever seen you dodge my questions like this before.

Regarding your last sentence, what's to stop them regardless of what you do? Locked case, cabinets lag bolted to the floor, armed guard (ironic I know), fort knox? Someone who is already breaking a federal law I don't think cares about what's locked up. They always find a way if they're determined enough. Psychologically, why would you think someone who's already done something off limits (B&E) wouldn't break into something else in the house? And again, the locked up areas seem like they'd be the most tempting.

I think we just simply disagree. I feel like I'm having a brick wall conversation with a politician. I don't understand how you can't comprehend that guns are just avenues and that you could equate the same dumb logic to most things in the world. You only think gun crime is a major issue because of media. Take a look at how many people die annually and see what percentage is from guns in the grand scheme.


You can't control all of the variables in which people are killed in the world, but you can initiate change by eliminating the people who use those variables to disrupt society.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

I don't think I've ever seen you dodge my questions like this before.

I apologize if I have, it's not intentional. You know that's not how I roll.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Regarding your last sentence, what's to stop them regardless of what you do? Locked case, cabinets lag bolted to the floor, armed guard (ironic I know), fort knox? Someone who is already breaking a federal law I don't think cares about what's locked up. They always find a way if they're determined enough. Psychologically, why would you think someone who's already done something off limits (B&E) wouldn't break into something else in the house? And again, the locked up areas seem like they'd be the most tempting.

The key phrase there is "if they're determined enough". Some may be, most won't be. I can't imagine most burglars plan to spend a great deal of time inside someone elses home. If they can't crack a box in a reasonable amount of time they'll more than likely move on to something else. But if that is your argument, why even lock the door? If they're going to come in, they're going to come in. Might as well make it as easy and painless for them as possible.

Firearm theft is listed in about 4% of property theft, but that still amounts to just under 250,000 guns per year. The most commonly stolen firearm? Handguns.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Firearms Stolen during Household Burglaries and Other Property Crimes, 2005-2010

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

I think we just simply disagree. I feel like I'm having a brick wall conversation with a politician. I don't understand how you can't comprehend that guns are just avenues and that you could equate the same dumb logic to most things in the world. You only think gun crime is a major issue because of media. Take a look at how many people die annually and see what percentage is from guns in the grand scheme.

I completely understand that guns are inanimate tools and simply the chosen means to an end, but they are chosen because they are efficient and nearly effortless at doing what they do, and you don't even have to be close to be effective.

Gun crime is a major issue, and the media really only reports a small amount of it. As I mentioned earlier, 250 mass killing events this year so far with a firearm. That's roughly one per day. Would you not consider that to be a major issue?

A quick glance at .gov statistics show 16,000 homicides in 2013. 11,000 were committed with a firearm. FastStats - Homicide

There are certainly other things that kill more people, but guns clearly are the go-to option for murder. Also for suicide.

And yes, all things considered, the number isn't terribly high, but at the same time, we went to war when only a couple thousand died senselessly, and we are still at war 14 years later, and have sacrificed thousands more lives in the process.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

You can't control all of the variables in which people are killed in the world, but you can initiate change by eliminating the people who use those variables to disrupt society.

Your right, you can't control everything, that is just the reality of the world, but you can work to shift the odds and at the very least maintain some kind of containment. Just like you can't wipe out infectious diseases entirely, but there are armies of people trying like hell to do what they can so that a good portion of people won't die needlessly.

[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Yup, just like in your locked house. I'm not giving the thief anything, other than the understanding that while he is illegally rooting around in your place, there is a damn good chance that he'll pick up a gun if he comes across one. Now you've got an armed thief in your house, which is exactly the thing that you or any other member of your family do not want to come home to.

So get off your high horse, remove your tin foil hat, and take a moment to consider the reality of the situation without having a aneurysm about gun control.

They would have to get through the moat, the kill maze, and the contact poisons to get to my panic room where I keep my firearms (then they would meet Artimus, my Beholder.)


Asking for clarity of a statement is far from a blood vessel bursting in my skull.

I make jokes and you must jump to name calling and ostracizing.

Big fish

small pond

Carry on your Eminence .

[Duuuuuuuude]

True story: I've come to the realization that my sense of sarcasm had become greatly diminished. I blame an overexposure to the political madness that has become engrained in facebook. Steps are being taken, so please bear with me, and never hesitate to call me out.

[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

True story: I've come to the realization that my sense of sarcasm had become greatly diminished. I blame an overexposure to the political madness that has become engrained in facebook. Steps are being taken, so please bear with me, and never hesitate to call me out.

I can relate.

This world is hurts my brain.

You know I wont hesitate.

I am the guy that answers his girlfriend's query "do these shorts make my ass look big?"

"yes they do."

BAM!!!!!!

Single again, awe fawk em' if they can't take it!

Quit Face Crack man!

Really it will give you more issues than a $5 hooker with Gonnasyphaherpales!!

[jasoncordova8877]

Dostramas fu%k you and eat sh!t go opt out you are a waste of life

[Duuuuuuuude]

[wings_of_fire]

I took a google trip to learn a fjew new words

[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by jasoncordova8877

Dostramas fu%k you and eat sh!t go opt out you are a waste of life

What got your panties bunched?

Was the kill whitey song too much for your delicate sensibilities?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

You can't control all of the variables in which people are killed in the world, but you can initiate change by eliminating the people who use those variables to disrupt society.

I totally agree with you on this!



Found this article very interesting about Swiss Gun Law.
How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com

The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned.

Just really puzzles me why we as a country cant get a politician to see a link between these mass shootings and mental issues. How can they be that blind?

As for the 'criminals' and gang bangers causing issues ....... they need to be seen for who they are and stop with this 'they were such a good boy' crap after they get shot and killed.

[EeePee]

Because the politicians don't care? It IS a job after all.

And because the people that say things like, he was such a good boy, obviously didn't know them as good as they thought they did.

So, there.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by EeePee

Because the politicians don't care? It IS a job after all.

And because the people that say things like, he was such a good boy, obviously didn't know them as good as they thought they did.

So, there.

Hmmmm interesting theory .... how does one get job like that? Better yet how do you keep a job when you don't care? I know my 'job' would fire my ass if I didn't care.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Just really puzzles me why we as a country cant get a politician to see a link between these mass shootings and mental issues. How can they be that blind?

Because you can't have a real conversation about guns without the crazies from either end of the spectrum having a conniption.

Here's another question: why aren't the pro-2nd amendment groups doing anything? It would benefit them just as well to really push for a change in our gun culture.

[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Just really puzzles me why we as a country cant get a politician to see a link between these mass shootings and mental issues. How can they be that blind?

Simple, we the people do not matter to them anymore, we are truly insignificant.

They have figured out how to make the world a better place, for them.

Conflict is confusion.
Never mind the man behind the curtain.

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Just really puzzles me why we as a country cant get a politician to see a link between these mass shootings and mental issues. How can they be that blind?

As for the 'criminals' and gang bangers causing issues ....... they need to be seen for who they are and stop with this 'they were such a good boy' crap after they get shot and killed.

It doesn't fit their agenda.

The politicians know that firearms are not the issue, but talking about mental health exposes them to the fact that they do not fund mental health in this country.

We can't call people crazy, identify a certain demographic as a problem or lock them up as that isn't politically correct, it's expensive, and it would effect their voting base or God forbid offend someone.

Add to the fact that Big PHARM has them in their pockets to aid with the government funding the "meds" they are pedaling!

These drugs are IMO play a major role in many of these incidents and is elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge.

Plus, discussing anything other than the party line that, "it's the fault of an inanimate object" wouldn't play into their agenda of trying to destroy the 2nd Amendment.

Politicians have no interest in solving this issue. They continually use it to keep the focus off of what's really going on.

This is why politicians don't address it, they don't want to!

"Our" government no longer represents the vast majority of the population of this country.

They are to busy pandering to global bankers, illegal aliens, special interest, and the UN all the while lining their pockets!

Phuck em all 2016!