Bad Business Owners

[wings_of_fire]

I can relate to what JRH said and thanks to him for sharing that.

Business is a lot of work with less to no pay at times specially in a technology based field. The initial stage which spans couple years is the most demanding.

Compared to couple decades ago, todays entrepreneurs have to dedicate more time and resources to just keep up with the modern complexity.

[C*H*U*D]

I don't think it's the build time wait the OP is having a problem with. It's the lack of even a simple reply. It takes less than 20 seconds to email back with a simple, "Sorry, but I'm too busy right now". At least then the guy can move on to someone else.

I think there are some vendors who treat their business as a hobby within a hobby. Make one for me, and a few to sell. That's fine but if you're advertising that you can and will make things, you should stay in contact.

If you're a vendor, my best advice is get a phone where you can have your business email received. If you don't have a business email, you should get one. I'm always answering emails in the grocery store, in my basement working, on the rocks playing, 11pm as I'm going to bed...pretty much everywhere. sales@undergroundcrawlers.com goes directly to my phone so I'm always answering.

[losikid]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

After seeing fab vendors come and go for over a decade, it can be certain that you (1) don't want to pay enough for the guys that treat it professionally, and (2) the people that are more affordable get swamped quick and rarely last more than a few years as a vendor.


Tube work is difficult, very difficult. Either learn how to do it yourself or pony up some big bucks and be prepared to wait months. If neither of those sound like good options then I suggest you take your own advice and leave the hobby. This is not one for the impatient and unwilling to learn.

I agree. I've never done rc tube work. But i've done 1:1 tube work. Mainly 1.75" & 1" tube. Very time consuming to get everything mated correctly, even half a degree in a bend can cause issues. And the design aspect is a challenge aswell.

I remember before I got into tube work and was talking to a fab shop. They wanted $15 for every bend, notch, and weld. Plus material, design, and any time spent working on the vehicle.

[crawlhog]

I work for a large jap company with divisions all over the world , you should see how shitty the treat their customers. and thats why they lose millions a year. so its not just the little guys.

[Hoosierdady]

As a past vendor of custom paint and bodywork I can tell you that the majority of the work done by other vendors is to support their own hobby and because they enjoy doing that portion of a build so much that they started selling that service to others. Very few can or will make a "career" out of it. When you spend 60+ hours at work, then come home to the family around their bedtime and put in another 4-5 hours until the AM comes it takes the fun out of it. I've been a vendor on here for 2-3 years now and the work load just increases to the point that your family starts complaining about the lack of time spent with them, you start slacking at your job, missing sleep and in the mean time you have 711 PMs waiting for you. For me it was so much that I had to stop taking orders months ago on bodywork and paint because you start to feel like it's a obligation to do the work for others and is no longer a fun side to the hobby. In short, a lot of vendors get to the point of no return. No returning emails, no returning PMs and no returning phone calls.

To PM a guy who is looking to you for help and them just say "I'm not interested" is not only short and rude IMO but I just don't have it in me to say it that way. I feel the need to explain why I can't take on the job because I feel bad telling someone no to their plans. Unfortunately in the course of a day when I speak to 10-15 people in person (not counting co-workers) I have the phone ringing in my pocket, daily plans for the family to contend with, my own plans within the hobby and the worldly problems of just maintaining a way of life for the three mouths I have waiting at home to feed, I too forget to respond sometimes. You might have to ask a time or two just to get a response from the majority of guys/gals in nearly any market or hobby. I deal with General Motors everyday but Sunday, I can't count how many times I have to go back and send another email or make another phone call because I got no response the first or second time and that's a world wide company. It may not be a good excuse for the problem stated by the OP, but it is what it is. Vendors just get overwhelmed because it is just them. A one man show with multiple people wanting a product that may take hundreds of hours to make. When I tell someone it's $140 plus the bodies and shipping to make them a crew cab truck most don't respond back, some jump on the price and get a one off piece. Then you get the guys who lecture you on how your prices are WAY to high for just some simple body work. "Oh I could just glue two bodies together and have the same thing for $50". But what they don't understand is that you take the work personal. You put in 100 hours of work and materials to form this piece of art that they say is just a couple of bodies glued together. You take time away from watching your kids grow, watching a soccer game, going out for the weekend because the kids got sick and now you're behind on the time frame you gave a guy on building his body so you spend every hour outside of work and sleep trying to get it done and get it right so you don't get flamed in the feedback or chit chat section because the body is a week late.

With all of that being said I know it's something that we vendors sign up and pay to be a part of. We pay out of pocket to be able to supply these services to others. We pay with the family time that we spend building something for someone else making a whopping $1-2 an hour if that. We pay with our health in some cases due to that materials we work with because a $600 filtration mask isn't going to buy itself. I can tell you that in my line in this hobby I've had to add filters to every vent and return in my house along with building a draft system and buy high end dust masks and it's still not enough to prevent breathing problems for me. Add all of these thoughts and above mentioned daily problems and you have a non-responding vendor or company in the making. So next time you're waiting for that one response to come back for that one time you asked a question or that one time you asked for a quote, send another message or email before you get frustrated and give up. I deal with dealership trades in our inventory every week, try asking another dealer if you can sell his car to a customer that could've been his. I might have to stay on this guys case for days and days on end, everyday via email, text messaging, sending over faxes and the occasional phone call. Perseverance pays off my friend. There's a reason I do the trades and there's a reason my customers know that if I don't have it I can get it. I hound them until the point of return.

[Mike Flea]

That's a lot of info Hoosier, and on a whole, I think the common RCer doesn't realize this. When they see that blue star, they assume that Paint and Bodywork on little trucks is your primary job, and not just a hobby. We forget that Vendors don't necessarily have employees, or families, and that you need time for yourselves.

Patience is a virtue.

[SWCrawler]

If you had taken the time to absorb the message all i was looking for was a reply from these so called "businesses", even if it was "Sorry, we are too busy but thanks for your interest".

[SWCrawler]

I see the locked up rc icon at the bottom of page i assume that is you. I placed my order on your website because the option existed, had no idea when it was coming. But about a week or so later my Vanquish axles had FI spools in them. Another vendor i should have put in the Thank You list. Nothing expected in terms of time frame just commitment to eventually deliver.

[Krawler Konceptz]

Originally Posted by Hoosierdady

As a past vendor of custom paint and bodywork I can tell you that the majority of the work done by other vendors is to support their own hobby and because they enjoy doing that portion of a build so much that they started selling that service to others. Very few can or will make a "career" out of it. When you spend 60+ hours at work, then come home to the family around their bedtime and put in another 4-5 hours until the AM comes it takes the fun out of it. I've been a vendor on here for 2-3 years now and the work load just increases to the point that your family starts complaining about the lack of time spent with them, you start slacking at your job, missing sleep and in the mean time you have 711 PMs waiting for you. For me it was so much that I had to stop taking orders months ago on bodywork and paint because you start to feel like it's a obligation to do the work for others and is no longer a fun side to the hobby. In short, a lot of vendors get to the point of no return. No returning emails, no returning PMs and no returning phone calls.

To PM a guy who is looking to you for help and them just say "I'm not interested" is not only short and rude IMO but I just don't have it in me to say it that way. I feel the need to explain why I can't take on the job because I feel bad telling someone no to their plans. Unfortunately in the course of a day when I speak to 10-15 people in person (not counting co-workers) I have the phone ringing in my pocket, daily plans for the family to contend with, my own plans within the hobby and the worldly problems of just maintaining a way of life for the three mouths I have waiting at home to feed, I too forget to respond sometimes. You might have to ask a time or two just to get a response from the majority of guys/gals in nearly any market or hobby. I deal with General Motors everyday but Sunday, I can't count how many times I have to go back and send another email or make another phone call because I got no response the first or second time and that's a world wide company. It may not be a good excuse for the problem stated by the OP, but it is what it is. Vendors just get overwhelmed because it is just them. A one man show with multiple people wanting a product that may take hundreds of hours to make. When I tell someone it's $140 plus the bodies and shipping to make them a crew cab truck most don't respond back, some jump on the price and get a one off piece. Then you get the guys who lecture you on how your prices are WAY to high for just some simple body work. "Oh I could just glue two bodies together and have the same thing for $50". But what they don't understand is that you take the work personal. You put in 100 hours of work and materials to form this piece of art that they say is just a couple of bodies glued together. You take time away from watching your kids grow, watching a soccer game, going out for the weekend because the kids got sick and now you're behind on the time frame you gave a guy on building his body so you spend every hour outside of work and sleep trying to get it done and get it right so you don't get flamed in the feedback or chit chat section because the body is a week late.

With all of that being said I know it's something that we vendors sign up and pay to be a part of. We pay out of pocket to be able to supply these services to others. We pay with the family time that we spend building something for someone else making a whopping $1-2 an hour if that. We pay with our health in some cases due to that materials we work with because a $600 filtration mask isn't going to buy itself. I can tell you that in my line in this hobby I've had to add filters to every vent and return in my house along with building a draft system and buy high end dust masks and it's still not enough to prevent breathing problems for me. Add all of these thoughts and above mentioned daily problems and you have a non-responding vendor or company in the making. So next time you're waiting for that one response to come back for that one time you asked a question or that one time you asked for a quote, send another message or email before you get frustrated and give up. I deal with dealership trades in our inventory every week, try asking another dealer if you can sell his car to a customer that could've been his. I might have to stay on this guys case for days and days on end, everyday via email, text messaging, sending over faxes and the occasional phone call. Perseverance pays off my friend. There's a reason I do the trades and there's a reason my customers know that if I don't have it I can get it. I hound them until the point of return.

You nailed it in the head...Great job explaining. I am very fortunate that 99% of my customers are patient and do understand...or the feedback section would be sure to have the flaming late post you speak of.. I have been able to stay home doing the hobby...with Blake's needs and needing to be assessable to the school in moments notice having a job out of home would be difficult to maintain. I appreciate all the support and patience, second emails etc

[SWCrawler]

JohnRobHolmes, thats awesome if you read sloooweer maybe you"ll see all i wanted was a reply or better yet a commitment. If i contacted them obviously i was willing to pony up. I had heard great things about your product, but.. but.. someone like yourself saying get out of the hobby if you are displeased with something is. You know what i don't even have the words to explain how that seems. I will never have to be displeased with your product. One less thing on the "to do" list. But thanks for the advice.

[onebullet]

Originally Posted by SWCrawler

JohnRobHolmes, thats awesome if you read sloooweer maybe you"ll see all i wanted was a reply or better yet a commitment. If i contacted them obviously i was willing to pony up. I had heard great things about your product, but.. but.. someone like yourself saying get out of the hobby if you are displeased with something is. You know what i don't even have the words to explain how that seems. I will never have to be displeased with your product. One less thing on the "to do" list. But thanks for the advice.

wow, thats what you got from it?

This is why reply or no reply from a vendor screws them either way.

good luck

[crash]

After hours stuff is certainly not easy and even more so when ya have a family. Been building rigs (1:1) for over 15 years. Its time consuming and like the RC stuff your not in it to get rich just support your own hobbies and it even gets harder when you turn out high end stuff that lots of folks want.

I am like Hoosierdady in that I can't give a simple quick response to anything so they stack up.

Its hard work and true dedication to pull it off.

[SWCrawler]

I believe if someone enters into a business they should have a business plan, and part of that plan should include the potential for growth, which might include replying to customers or potential customers. The fact that he suggested i get out if i am displeased with a situation is off i never said i wasn't willing to pony up. All i wanted was a yes, no, or a commitment to build in the future. I would have gladly paid double for the product a particular builder had to offer. saw it at a small meet, instantly liked the product. You can"t demonize my discontent any more than you can justify their inability to follow through. Big business, small business, they will both fold if the hobby doesn't grow through personal contacts and good experiences. How many people would you think one person with a dedicated interest for anything can influence? And how many of those are we willing to loose. You can probably attribute something you do to someone else getting you involved.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by SWCrawler

JohnRobHolmes, thats awesome if you read sloooweer maybe you"ll see all i wanted was a reply or better yet a commitment. If i contacted them obviously i was willing to pony up. I had heard great things about your product, but.. but.. someone like yourself saying get out of the hobby if you are displeased with something is. You know what i don't even have the words to explain how that seems. I will never have to be displeased with your product. One less thing on the "to do" list. But thanks for the advice.

You didn't comprehend my message. I agreed fully that a response should be given. The rest of my message explains why you might not get a response, and that if you are indeed that frustrated and unable to learn tube work then this might not be your hobby. You suggested leaving the hobby, and I cannot not tell somebody to continue in a hobby that gives them nothing but frustration. Maybe honest advice was not your goal, and you just said that to get responses.

If my honest answer does not please you, then here's the salesman response. This hobby is awesome, and you just need to find the right vendor to help you out, and then you can buy some of my awesome products for your very awesome rig. I guarantee you will never have more fun in your life than this hobby can give!

[Hoosierdady]

Originally Posted by SWCrawler

If you had taken the time to absorb the message all i was looking for was a reply from these so called "businesses", even if it was "Sorry, we are too busy but thanks for your interest".

Yes sir, I read every post a few times before responding ( I hope you read and absorbed mine). I completely understand where you're coming from as I to buy stuff from companies and people online. It frustrates me to not get a response as well. I am in no way trying to demonize your wanting a response from a inquiry to a company. I was just trying to give you a insight as to what it's like to be pulled in several different directions at once and as to why a PM or email might get missed by the little guy. Now with that being said I know that there are larger companies with a staff who have zero customer service before, after or during the sale, for those few I have no excuse and for that matter nor do they. But when it comes to a vendor or one of our smaller companies on here that start up out of someones spare room in the basement, life has a way of getting in the way sometimes. When dealing with one of these guys/gals you just might have to try a few times to get a response is all. It's like trying to call a friend or text them. If they don't answer that day you usually try again the next day until they get back in touch with you. 99% of the people selling services or products on here like getting the recognition and enjoy seeing their products in action on the course. So unless they're on the way out the door, due diligence will pay off in the end my friend.

Originally Posted by SWCrawler

I see the locked up rc icon at the bottom of page i assume that is you. I placed my order on your website because the option existed, had no idea when it was coming. But about a week or so later my Vanquish axles had FI spools in them. Another vendor i should have put in the Thank You list. Nothing expected in terms of time frame just commitment to eventually deliver.

That my friend would be another individual, I am very proud to be associated with Lockeduprc.com however and that's why I fly their colors along with supershafty.com. I can name off a few companies in this hobby who go above and beyond to deliver a top notch product with the customer service to back it up. With that being said even those guys have life events that can stop a response from being sent at times. Illness in the family, moving to another state, death, divorce...the list goes on and on. Just try to be understanding when the little guy doesn't respond back right away.

As for Mr. Holmes, I don't know a whole lot about him other than he is busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest and has been for years. Talk about a guy who is constantly trying to develop better products for us non-stop in both the RC world and other industries. I've sent emails to him before and didn't get a response, but I posted in the electronics thread and got the response (from him) that I needed. It was just a matter of catching him in the right place as I'm sure he has several points of contact and therefor can't be available from each one at all times. I go back to the first paragraph where I mentioned calling a friend. In some situations you have to both call and text that friend. Attack from different angles if you will, lol.

[stevetate12]

If I may interject.....lol.....this all sounds like a communication issue to me......if whatever vendor gets a request/order....whatever that they cannot handle with a certain time then they should prolly say just that take a deposit they should be willing to refund and that's that......to not respond or to respond with an open ended "were taking orders right now would seem off putting to alot of people who contacted sombidy who's advertising a service etc......a little explanation would just put the ball in the customer court......i wouldn't have a problem with just being told why a or b can't be done right now.....but that's just me

[Peaker]

There is bad apples everywhere, and often what is 1 mand sour half rotten apple is another mans plump grade 1 apple.

That beeing said i too fint it strange ppl cant even skripple down a fjow words in regard to some matter, for the most you can make do with a default message you can just copy/paste into a mail.

In this day and age i can not accept "being busy" as a excuse.

To me it is now so bad that when i do get feedback i get happy, for instance only 1 in 10 jobs i apply for via e-mail get a response, and in those 10 another 1 or 2 i only get a RPLY when the jobs is gone to another person.

There is 1 branch i hate most of all, but here there is only 179 of those to deal with, and i have a pic of them.

[stevetate12]

I just think its a dealing with the public thing especially here where its a worldwide public .....if your a vendor on here your saying "hey come buy my stuff" so said vendor should be prepared to respond to inquiries.....i don't think anybody is wrong here customers should get a timely answer and vendors should just be straight up about why there would be delays of any.......the free market will decide how to deal with the rest

...

[S ARR T 8]

No reply is bad business period. No excuses. If their communication is bad now would hate to see how they treat you once they get your money. Just cause there is a little blue star next to their name don't mean they know how to run a business.

[stevetate12]

Well like I said ...free market should take care of that and I whole heartedly agree with ya