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Old 10-10-2018, 06:27 PM   #1061
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Meh, all makes have their issues. I'd own a Wrangler in a heartbeat, especially a Rubi. By far one of the most capable mass produced off road rigs straight off the showroom floor we've ever had. And if the Fiat involvement doesn't screw it up, a four door diesel JL Scrambler is still at the top of my list when it comes time to trade. Jeeps are one of those rigs that you really either love them or hate them, I for one love them, always have.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:51 PM   #1062
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Because we like them
Me too. Doesnt mean I cant give the Dodge boys a ribbing.

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Meh, all makes have their issues. I'd own a Wrangler in a heartbeat, especially a Rubi. By far one of the most capable mass produced off road rigs straight off the showroom floor we've ever had. And if the Fiat involvement doesn't screw it up, a four door diesel JL Scrambler is still at the top of my list when it comes time to trade. Jeeps are one of those rigs that you really either love them or hate them, I for one love them, always have.
Id own a Jeep. But the frame issue is no joke. Id avoid the JL for a couple of years. But yes all brands have issues.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:29 PM   #1063
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Id own a Jeep. But the frame issue is no joke. Id avoid the JL for a couple of years. But yes all brands have issues.
It just makes me wonder where the QC was at while this happened. I have no idea if the welds are done by robotic or human, but for this many bad/faulty welds to get to the point of a becoming a fully assembled vehicle and no-one sees/says anything, it just has me shaking my head.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:28 PM   #1064
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It just makes me wonder where the QC was at while this happened. I have no idea if the welds are done by robotic or human, but for this many bad/faulty welds to get to the point of a becoming a fully assembled vehicle and no-one sees/says anything, it just has me shaking my head.
Could be that while on the outside the welds look good, but structurally they are not strong.

So a Visual inspection passes, but after reviewing some accident reports/crash tests they are finding out the welds are not very good.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:41 PM   #1065
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Me too. Doesn’t mean I can’t give the Dodge boys a ribbing.



I’d own a Jeep. But the frame issue is no joke. I’d avoid the JL for a couple of years. But yes all brands have issues.
It wasn't the frame if you read the article. Hell, it wasn't even like the Subaru fiasco missing over 80 welds. It was the welds for the panhard bar only. Yes, it's a major suspension component, but minor in the overall scheme of automotive screwups and recalls. The Subaru one compromised the entire structure during a crash for example since the B pillar welds were part of it. Would have folded in on you to make a nice coffin. Suburyu.

And I always avoid any new model for the first couple years. Been there, done that, burned the T shirt.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:31 AM   #1066
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It wasn't the frame if you read the article. Hell, it wasn't even like the Subaru fiasco missing over 80 welds. It was the welds for the panhard bar only. Yes, it's a major suspension component, but minor in the overall scheme of automotive screwups and recalls. The Subaru one compromised the entire structure during a crash for example since the B pillar welds were part of it. Would have folded in on you to make a nice coffin. Suburyu.

And I always avoid any new model for the first couple years. Been there, done that, burned the T shirt.
We may have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think this is a minor issue at all. Losing the function of the track bar has the potential to cause an accident. But any weld issues on the frame is major IMO and I wouldn't necessary trust the rest of the welds on the frame. I read that Jeep is straight up replacing at least one guy's JL so I'd be surprised if the track bar mount was the only weld issue.

I wonder if it was a robot weld or an "awesome" Union weld. I'm guessing the good ol' UAW.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:24 AM   #1067
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wait so i drive a scion FRS, made by Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru). is that missing welds?! ** ok looked into it only the new Ascent is missing welds (but scary as we considered it as a contender against the Pilot)
whats worse, its about to get traded in for my wife to get a Honda pilot. that means i will be driving her 2016 grand Cherokee... oh good no panhard bar on a fully independent suspension. *WHEW*

for the record: yes i technically "own a jeep". but its only 2wd so its not technically a jeep. right? man i suck any way you slice it huh lol
its only temporary anyway. jeep lease is up in july and im getting 2003 M5. i think.
more on that in the 1:1 section.

long story short: i haz jeep. not for long. put me on the "hate it" list. but it wasn't a "real jeep" so... *shrug*


*** just to clarify my stance on jeeps... and why Jato liked this post lol
Tribute to my Dad's 79 F100 featuring Banzai
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Last edited by Shinchu; 10-11-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:41 AM   #1068
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wait so i drive a scion FRS, made by Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru). is that missing welds?! ** ok looked into it only the new Ascent is missing welds (but scary as we considered it as a contender against the Pilot)
whats worse, its about to get traded in for my wife to get a Honda pilot. that means i will be driving her 2016 grand Cherokee... oh good no panhard bar on a fully independent suspension. *WHEW*

for the record: yes i technically "own a jeep". but its only 2wd so its not technically a jeep. right? man i suck any way you slice it huh lol
its only temporary anyway. jeep lease is up in july and im getting 2003 M5. i think.
more on that in the 1:1 section.

long story short: i haz jeep. not for long. put me on the "hate it" list. but it wasn't a "real jeep" so... *shrug*
"Real" Jeeps died when they lost V8s.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:43 AM   #1069
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you mean when they GAINED a v8? see again my grand Cherokee fails... its V6 3.8 so its not the 4.0 straight six OR a V8. man im going to be embarrassed until july LMAO at least its comfy?!
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:27 AM   #1070
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you mean when they GAINED a v8? see again my grand Cherokee fails... its V6 3.8 so its not the 4.0 straight six OR a V8. man im going to be embarrassed until july LMAO at least its comfy?!
No, I mean lost. CJ Jeeps had V8s before they were owned by Chrysler.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:55 AM   #1071
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The thing is, those Jeep V-8s really weren't that great. The 304 barely put out more HP than the 258 I-6 and the 360 wasn't much better. I think it gave about 35-40 more HP than the I-6.

When I was really following CJ builds way back when, I was more likely to see a Chevy 350 swap than a 304/360.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:01 PM   #1072
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The thing is, those Jeep V-8s really weren't that great. The 304 barely put out more HP than the 258 I-6 and the 360 wasn't much better. I think it gave about 35-40 more HP than the I-6.

When I was really following CJ builds way back when, I was more likely to see a Chevy 350 swap than a 304/360.
This. But at the time when these CJ's were plentiful, a few 343's, 390's and 401's were finding their ways into the engine bays. I had a '75 CJ5 back in the mid 80's- 258/ 3 speed , manual steering / 4wheel drums...After getting silly with it, the final setup was a 401/T-18 and a metric ass ton of broken axles and driveshafts.. The V8 was scary on the road, at least to me.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:39 PM   #1073
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No, I mean lost. CJ Jeeps had V8s before they were owned by Chrysler.
I agree with the v-8 CJ's, but the couple guys I knew with factory v-8's, their biggest complaint was broken axle shafts. They had to go with beefier, aftermarket shafts to solve the problem.

The basic CJ, depending on the year, came with either an inline 4 or 6 cylinder, with the V-8 as an option. Some 1965- 1968 Jeeps came with a Buick V-6.

In 1969, the Jeeps were offered a "462" performance package that offered the V-6 as an option, but came stock with the 1970 and '71 Renegade package.

The '72-'83 Renegade's and '77-83 Golden Eagle's came stock with the 304 V-8. Somewhere in these years, the Levi package also came stock with the 304.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:40 PM   #1074
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You don't need 400hp for what a Jeep CJ or Wrangler was designed to do well. I too have seen plenty of broken shit (mainly u joints though), even on I6's off road, more power isn't going to help that. And from the TJ on up, the Wrangler is way more capable than the stock leaf sprung CJ series ever was off road in stock form. Hell, the new Rubi comes on 33's with clearance for 35's, from the factory.
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:58 AM   #1075
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The thing is, those Jeep V-8s really weren't that great. The 304 barely put out more HP than the 258 I-6 and the 360 wasn't much better. I think it gave about 35-40 more HP than the I-6.

When I was really following CJ builds way back when, I was more likely to see a Chevy 350 swap than a 304/360.
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You don't need 400hp for what a Jeep CJ or Wrangler was designed to do well. I too have seen plenty of broken shit (mainly u joints though), even on I6's off road, more power isn't going to help that. And from the TJ on up, the Wrangler is way more capable than the stock leaf sprung CJ series ever was off road in stock form. Hell, the new Rubi comes on 33's with clearance for 35's, from the factory.
Stop you two. Stop ruining my dream that the V8 powered, leaf sprung Jeep is the best ever!

Look at the Willy's Jeeps. Those things had less than 100 horsepower and they were still very capable.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:05 AM   #1076
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Need a V8 to get up the mountains to the trails in CO
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:23 AM   #1077
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Stop you two. Stop ruining my dream that the V8 powered, leaf sprung Jeep is the best ever!

Look at the Willy's Jeeps. Those things had less than 100 horsepower and they were still very capable.
THIS.
this is exactly what i meant when i said jeep lost when they STARTED putting V8's in there.

sidenote: my senior chief at work had a V8 CJ. HAD. his first day getting it running good enough to drive it to work and show me, he rolled it on the freeway.
he walked away with only a scratch and mild concussion from the rollbar that saved his life. didn't even spill his coffee!!!

when i found out he was ok, i printed this and put it on his desk


then i offered to help him rebuild it (bent the trackbar and rashed the rear corner above the taillight but otherwise it ran like nothing happened) but he just wanted to get rid of it.

Last edited by Shinchu; 10-12-2018 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:29 AM   #1078
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THIS.
this is exactly what i meant when i said jeep lost when they STARTED putting V8's in there.

sidenote: my senior chief at work had a V8 CJ. HAD. his first day getting it running good enough to drive it to work and show me, he rolled it on the freeway.
he walked away with only a scratch and mild concussion from the rollbar that saved his life. didn't even spill his coffee!!!

when i found out he was ok, i printed this and put it on his desk


then i offered to help him rebuild it (bent the trackbar and rashed the rear corner above the taillight but otherwise it ran like nothing happened) but he just wanted to get rid of it.
I had a 1979 CJ-5. I learned, very quickly, to respect that high center of gravity and short wheelbase.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:45 AM   #1079
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then i offered to help him rebuild it (bent the trackbar and rashed the rear corner above the taillight but otherwise it ran like nothing happened) but he just wanted to get rid of it.
Sad! Hopefully it went to a good owner instead of the scrap yard.

When I was a kid my uncle had a CJ with a V8. That thing would literally do wheelies. They took it mudding often. It was a ton of fun.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:00 PM   #1080
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You don't need 400hp for what a Jeep CJ or Wrangler was designed to do well. I too have seen plenty of broken shit (mainly u joints though), even on I6's off road, more power isn't going to help that. And from the TJ on up, the Wrangler is way more capable than the stock leaf sprung CJ series ever was off road in stock form. Hell, the new Rubi comes on 33's with clearance for 35's, from the factory.
If I were to ever find the "right" TJ, I'd be perfectly fine with the 4.0. Plenty of grunt for the Jeep.


Check out these guys, this group of flat fenders go from used and abused "survivors" to nicely tuned resto-mods w/ lockers F&R and 4.3 V6's. Absolutely amazing what these jeeps can still negotiate on stock-ish suspensions and knobby military tires.




* edited this, here's the right link to day on one the Rubicon. *

Last edited by BigSki; 10-12-2018 at 06:21 PM.
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